[Livnletcarsliv]

Hi all, a progressive update - I took an extended TD of Kushaq 1.5 DSG. The following are my observations, especially in comparison to the 2019 Harrier XZ.

Positives
1. It is definitely a hoot to drive. The paddle shifters are a boon for enthusiasts.
2. The car is very agile and a great handler. Of course, Harrier is 1 size larger than Kushaq.
3. Even though the car is compact, there is more than enough space for 4+1. Of course, the rear legroom was less than Harrier but it was nothing short as well. I was able to sit comfortably (I am almost 6ft) at the rear with the driver seat set to my driving position.
4. It has almost all the bells and whistles one can expect in the market with very few exceptions like powered seats, etc. I did not check all/most of the features because I am not a gizmos person.
5. The ride was good enough, not exceptional though. However, it was still on the stiffer side as expected from a driver's car and Skoda.
6. The boot has good space management. It was good enough for a car of this size.
7. Upto 6 years/1.5L km warranty - one of the best in the industry. Even though sales the person mentioned that during the 6th year, based on the goodwill and customer relationship, the warranty can be extended to 8 years (additional 2 years). I still doubt how can the warranty be extended only to select customers based on the so-called goodwill.
8. The torque was as expected for a 1350 kg car. Personally, I felt underpowered purely because of the Harrier diesel effect. However, I don't have any complaints though.
9. The steering was so light and easy to maneuver, especially at slow speeds. The high-speed heft was as expected and good enough for an enthusiast.
10. Fit and finish were good enough. Not exceptional though.
11. NVH is well controlled.

Negatives
1. There is a serious downgrade in terms of quality. In fact, the airflow control knob of the AC vents felt so cheap that it can be compared to a Rs. 200 toy car that we get at the festival exhibition.
2. The cost-cutting is so evident. Harrier was way better in terms of quality. The plastic felt so cheap in Kushaq.
3. Somehow I felt claustrophobic inside the cabin (Probably because of the Harrier effect).
4. Even though DSG did its job to the T, the initial pick-up/response from the standstill could have been better. I definitely felt a delay in response from a standstill. I am sure the manual will not have this issue. No, I am not talking about the turbo lag.
5. AC definitely needs an upgrade. The full HVAC system was screaming at the top of the roof to cool the cabin. The temperature was set at 18. Even then, I never felt colder for the entire 50min TD. This is not even summer. Just imagine how will it be in Chennai summers.
6. The weight/heft of the bonnet was not as expected (evident cost cutting). The weight of the bonnet feels like it is 50% lighter than that of Harrier's. Even the door-closing thud was way better in Harrier. Harrier was way more robust.
7. I am not a fan of touch AC control.
8. The sports mode is literally a joke. The only difference is that gear shift happens at a higher rpm increasing the torque availability for the appropriate rev range to feel like it pulls faster. In Harrier, all 3 modes (Eco, City, Sports) are significantly different from each other. There is a power difference between modes. Only in sports mode, you will be able to utilize the full 170ps in Harrier.
9. I somehow felt the driver's seat back small (Again Harrier effect). In Harrier, I was able to comfortably sit with my back fully cocooned by the seat. In Kushaq, I felt my back a little squeezed to fit in the seat. No problem for short drives. I wonder how comfortable will it be for the long drives.
10. Finally, the cost. It is expensive (23.5L ONR for Monte Carlo DSG - 2022 pricing) for what it offers.

Regarding reliability, the salesperson says that for the past 2 years, the number of DQ200 complaints is significantly lesser than the old one.

For this price, overall, I am unsatisfied with the Kushaq. This is not a true Skoda. Except for the driving thrill which includes handling and ride quality (which again is not exceptionally good compared to Harrier), this Skoda is a serious letdown in many departments like the quality of materials, build, and AC performance. I might as well go for another Harrier (XZA+ Dark) by spending additional 3-4 lakhs.

[steadfast]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

. I might as well go for another Harrier (XZA+ Dark) by spending additional 3-4 lakhs.

I knew this was coming and this is what I implicitly mentioned in my initial reply on this thread. There is no other car in or one segment above that can match a Harrier. After driving a Harrier no other car will satisfy you. Yes there can be niggles and we can hope that you are not unlucky enough to get another lemon but another Harrier can only replace a Harrier. Don't think this is a biased statement from me, would encourage you to test drive everything left right centre up down segments to take a call.

If you go with a Harrier, would suggest just wait to know status of facelift and updates and plan accordingly.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by steadfast

I knew this was coming and this is what I implicitly mentioned in my initial reply on this thread. There is no other car in or one segment above that can match a Harrier. After driving a Harrier no other car will satisfy you. Yes there can be niggles and we can hope that you are not unlucky enough to get another lemon but another Harrier can only replace a Harrier. Don't think this is a biased statement from me, would encourage you to test drive everything left right centre up down segments to take a call.

If you go with a Harrier, would suggest just wait to know status of facelift and updates and plan accordingly.

Its absolutely true. Harrier, even though is a half baked product from Tata still does excite the enthusiast in you. And, even though Compass is better in the driving dynamics department, Harrier is not far lagging behind given it is 1 size bigger than the Compass. That is why I always say that "Harrier is a right product in the wrong hands".

[shancz]

Great to hear a relative feedback from an ex-Harrier owner, your input is valuable
My experience with the Taigun 1.0 also had a similar tone but IMO you've to look at it as a large hatch designed to look like an SUV(like most of its segment) to appreciate what it offers and a lot of the negatives will become positives An expensive large hatch ? It very well is.
A friend wanted to upgrade from his Jazz and post the TD of the Taigun 1.0 he was impressed but said it doesn't feel like an upgrade over the Jazz, hence he skipped.

I have similar views on what a SUV should be and to me that starts with the Harrier onwards based on size and characteristics, others may disagree but my views were formed since the first "SUVs" I was introduced to were the Scorpio and the Safari.

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Regarding reliability, the salesperson says that for the past 2 years, the number of DQ200 complaints is significantly lesser than the old one.

2 years is too early.
Whatever they say, my suggestion to all DSG buyers is to include a "DSG Fund" of about 3 lakhs in the price of the vehicle to not have heartaches later, just in case.

As for the "goodwill after 6 years", that's just false air, don't consider it seriously unless they give that upfront and its from Skoda not the dealer.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Its absolutely true. Harrier, even though is a half baked product from Tata still does excite the enthusiast in you. And, even though Compass is better in the driving dynamics department, Harrier is not far lagging behind given it is 1 size bigger than the Compass. That is why I always say that "Harrier is a right product in the wrong hands".

You are not going to be happy after a few years even if you have a 100% defect free Harrier to begin with - think about it.

All that said, Compass will leave Harrier in the dust when it comes to handling - just put them up on the lift and see underneath to understand why. Jeep has given it a complicated rear suspension for a reason.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by shancz

A friend wanted to upgrade from his Jazz and post the TD of the Taigun 1.0 he was impressed but said it doesn't feel like an upgrade over the Jazz, hence he skipped.

I have similar views on what a SUV should be and to me that starts with the Harrier onwards based on size and characteristics, others may disagree but my views were formed since the first "SUVs" I was introduced to were the Scorpio and the Safari.

2 years is too early.
Whatever they say, my suggestion to all DSG buyers is to include a "DSG Fund" of about 3 lakhs in the price of the vehicle to not have heartaches later, just in case.

As for the "goodwill after 6 years", that's just false air, don't consider it seriously unless they give that upfront and its from Skoda not the dealer.

It was a good decision that you friend skipped Taigun. It is definitely is not an upgrade from Jazz given the price of Taigun.

Personally, for me an SUV should be robust to drive anywhere and everywhere. With or without 4*4. I never felt that in Creta, Seltos, or the VAG twins. Even Slavia and Virtus is a big let down for me in terms of the true Skoda/VW experience.

DQ200 is a hit or miss. But so far, all is well. Its definitely wait and watch space.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Again another dismay and letdown from Tata at the Auto Expo today.
Looks like there is nothing for this year. It's a bad show today from Tata. I was expecting the Harrier facelift.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Again another dismay and letdown from Tata at the Auto Expo today.
Looks like there is nothing for this year. It's a bad show today from Tata. I was expecting the Harrier facelift.

It's quite possible that the face-lift still comes out in a couple of months. It's not necessary for manufacturers to show every thing at the expo.

I think we should get it before the festival season.

[steadfast]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Again another dismay and letdown from Tata at the Auto Expo today.
Looks like there is nothing for this year. It's a bad show today from Tata. I was expecting the Harrier facelift.

May be this video helps you. Assuming you understand Hindi.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xNcsZgsRd1E

[07CR]

A wild entry.

Used endeavour. I know the ASS in future is unknown, but apart from that the car is everything you want.

I have a ecosport S and till now the after sales experience has not changed ( done 2 services post Ford left). It's been a fill it shut it forget it experience.

[speed79]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Again another dismay and letdown from Tata at the Auto Expo today.
Looks like there is nothing for this year. It's a bad show today from Tata. I was expecting the Harrier facelift.

Over several posts you seem to be going back to Harrier. It looks like that Harrier liked Harrier a lot (it seems to have touched your heart) but you had to let it go due to issues. I think it will be difficult to find a replacement of Harrier, atleast in that budget.

If you can, then wait for this Harrier/Safari facelift. I hope the facelift will be devoid of the issues that mar current Harrier at present.

I have had good experience with all Tata cars till now. 2011 Vista (still going), 2015 Storme (scrapped last year, saved us in accident) had no quality issues. Due to confidence in Tata products, I have bought Punch AMT in Sept 2022, and a low run used Hexa XTA just a few days back.

Wait out few months after arrival of the facelft and get Harrier of your choice. One cannot be unlucky twice.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by speed79

I think it will be difficult to find a replacement of Harrier, atleast in that budget.

I have had good experience with all Tata cars till now. 2011 Vista (still going), 2015 Storme (scrapped last year, saved us in accident) had no quality issues. Due to confidence in Tata products, I have bought Punch AMT in Sept 2022, and a low run used Hexa XTA just a few days back.

Wait out few months after arrival of the facelft and get Harrier of your choice. One cannot be unlucky twice.

Absolutely true. Almost no replacement for Harrier in the 50L budget. Harrier is the perfect balance between comfort and driving dynamics. Of course, slightly enthusiast-oriented. C5 is good in comfort but not driving. Tiguan wins in the driving department but is not comfortable enough. Tuscon, which is almost twice expensive, is the closest to Harrier. However, I hate the looks of the Tuscon - both interior and exterior.

Even I run a 2009 Indica Vista 1.3D, which is in fact my beater car as well. Done only about 58K.

While I awaiting the facelift launch, it looks like Tata is not committed to Harrier/Safari. Given the other EV lineups and focus of Tata, it will come as no surprise in 3 years that Harrier is replaced by other models like Sierra, Avinya, Curvv, etc.

Your party is on me if I don't have any issues if at all I decide to go with Harrier again. I don't believe in luck at all. Yes, my car was a Lemon. But Harrier is a good product in the market.

[GoBlue]

The best car to get this year in a budget of 35L would be the Innova Hycross Hybrid ZX(O). Reliability should be top-notch, so should FE (for that size of car). It has a 9.5s 0-100 time, so should be FTD (in a straight line at least). It has all the latest gadgets, including ADAS, that should keep it feeling fresh for the next 30 years (at the very least) of Toyota ownership.

Please avoid VW/Skoda like you'd avoid a plague infested rat nest, unless we are talking about the Octavia/Superb/Kodiaq, in which case it's somewhat worth buying a pseudo-German.

Hyundai Tucson is a great package, if not for the white interiors which would become a pain to clean over time. There's indeed that stigma of the 40L Hyundai. If that's the case, then it's best to not go for a Hyundai product. However good the quality may be, it's the stigma that'll prevent from enjoying the car. Not to mention good humored "enthusiast" friends asking for a pysch evaluation for having got that "40L Hyundai".

Given that you've had a TaMo lemon, best to stay away from Mahindra and Jeep (Compass). They are a manufacturer of niggles, cars are an unintended consequence.

Also, I see from posts that you are considering another Harrier. A sincere suggestion; once bitten, stay away from the snake park.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Progressive update 2

I did take a TD of 2 cars with completely different size, character, usecase, etc.

One - Octavia L&K
The reasons why I tried this at the first place are as follows
1. It is a sparingly used demo car for sale - Only 6K done for the entire demo period. It is a 2021 model, 6K done, white, L&K.
2. Another reason is that, though I have extensively driven Mercs (C, E, S, ML, GLS, SLK, C63AMG) during my working stint with Mercedes (13 years back), I've never driven this poor man's Audi A4, which now is also something I can afford.

Positive observations
1. It's an absolute driver's delight. No wonder it is the best enthusiast car below 50L. I was so much impressed like there is no tomorrow.
2. Size-wise, it is sufficient enough for 5 adults.
3. Being a CKD, the quality of materials used are top notch for that price. Nothing better than this in terms of build quality, finesse, fit & finish.
4. It's a head turner for me in terms of looks.
5. Boot space is sufficient for most of the cases.
6. DQ381 is way better in terms of reliability than a DQ200.

Negative observations
1. GC with full load. GC is not an issue with 2 pax on board with slight luggage. But I wonder what will be the GC will 5 on-board with full luggage.
2. Feature list - even though this is not a negative since I am not a gizmo person, as per market standards it lacks many features for this price like ventilated seats, 360 camera, sunroof, auto start/stop, etc.
3. Mileage. Being a 2L petrol DSG, I assume that the mileage will be in single digit in the city limits and around 12-14 on the highways.
4. Being a CKD, I understand that the cost of maintenance will be twice than that of Harrier. Even if I opt for the 4 + 2 years warranty and 4 years service package, I assume that I will still end up paying twice the cost.

Two - Scorpio N
Positive observations
1. Feels like I am king of the world when I sit in the drivers seat. Commanding road presence.
2. Eats up anything and everything that comes its way.
3. Loaded will almost all the bells and whistles.
4. NVH is well controlled (outside as well as inside) for a 2.2L diesel automatic.
5. 4*4 option - You can take it anywhere, anytime and conquer the world.
6. Solid build and robust. It can be abused. The heft of bonnet is an assurance of a safe car.
7. Slow speed manoeuvrability is fantastic for a such a heavy, tall vehicle.
8. Head turner for me in terms of looks.

Negative observations
1. No telescopic adjustment for steering for a more than average height person like me (6ft). Even though it was still possible to get to a right driving position after a multiple adjustments.
2. Hard suspension - which means the ride will be hard as well. We can feel the bad roads/no roads inside the cabin. Slow speed is a hard ride. Yes, I understand that this is a BOF suv which is meant for tackling these kind of roads.
3. Thigh support could have been better.
4. The boot space management of the last row, especially when folded could have been better.
5. The last row is strictly for kids. however, if the situation demands, adults can do a 1-2 hrs drive with a slight discomfort.
6. Not an enthusiast car in any sense. Even at speeds of 80-90, when I tried to manoeuvre, I can feel the fish tailing.
7. The audio system is too mediocre for 28-29L.


Overall, the Scorpio N is a no go for me. Regarding the Octavia, my mind says skip it because it a 2 year old demo car but heart yearns for it.

[Bhupesh_2628]

Hi Livnletcarsliv,

I.M.O., you should avoid considering that 2 year old demo car. It will be risky to own as you do not know how those 6,000 kms were driven prior to run-in period and post the run-in period.

You yourself have reiterated that you aren't comfortable in used cars.

From your previous car experience and from this new thread, you value 'reliability' more than anything else with the driving enthusiasm coming as second. Keeping the reliability part in mind in this case, I think you should skip it.

Just my opinion.