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View Poll Results: Which machine for the man?
New Scorpio N Z8L AT D 4WD 103 62.80%
New Scorpio N Z8L AT P 16 9.76%
2017+ Fortuner 4WD AT 29 17.68%
2018+ Endeavour 3.2L 31 18.90%
2019+ Alturas G4 4WD 11 6.71%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 15th February 2023, 13:56   #1
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Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

Hi Members!

I finally have the means to get myself something nice for once. My budget is a max of 30L on road (10-15L will have to be financed).
Have been speaking to some nice forum members and got some valuable advice (thank you so much! )
However, I still cannot make up my mind. So, here's the catch:

My requirement is:
  1. Responsive engine + transmission combo
  2. Decent handling (Fortuner is decent)
  3. 4WD is priority but RWD will do too
  4. Highway stability is highly desirable
  5. Reliable and can take some abuse (even though I treat my vehicles with kid gloves)
  6. Basic features will do but Android Auto/Carplay + 360 Camera is a must. If not then at least should have provisions to have it done aftermarket
  7. Road presence/Goon effect is highly desirable
  8. Vehicle has to be at least 2018 or newer (2017 is acceptable for Fortuner)
  9. 5-7 seater (3rd row will be removed and used at home)
  10. Strictly not looking for a Thar, Jimny, D-Max, MU-X or XUV700. Glucose is not even in my budget (sorry, Gloster)
  11. Efficiency can go eat a bag of potatoes. Just kidding, 11+km/l on highways at 80-120kph is acceptable. Of course the more, the merrier
  12. Should be big and bad enough to bother the dirty and rule-breaking neighbors and their misbehaving son's new poop-colored Safari

The Scorpio-N Paradox:
I have driven the 2.2 mHawk in different vehicles (Rectangle Scorpio, XUV500/700, Scorpio-N) and it is a really fun engine, in the 700 and N, it sounds great too and is refined.
However, I was totally smitten by the way the mStallion drives and sounds. It is just insane and I think I am in love
A big SUV moving this fast and sounding this good does things to your head.

So the question is, can a RWD Scorpio N do the following places?
  • Sandakhphu
  • Tawang
  • Chandratal
  • Mandalpatti
  • Deep north east interior places
  • Jungles and wild places, likes of what BHPian nilanjanray travels to (cause I decided to get a 150-600mm)

If I somehow manage to get snow chains on, will a winter trip with snow work out?

The Endeavour Paradox
I really like the 3.2L I think only Alturas comes close to the quality of the interior. Also, have spoken to two owners of 3.2L and got positive feedback.

Issues are:
  1. When will the torque converter flex plate break if I go for a 2016-2017 model?
  2. I know they have signed service agreement for a decade but what if there's a breakdown in a remote place?
  3. Knowing that Ford has left India (completely due to the fault of their own) makes me uneasy in the least
  4. Not that I care about resale value but I'll probably will get nothing 5 years down the line

This is once in a lifetime opportunity to get top notch vehicle that our country never valued as much as the Fortuner but only dealers are (to make more money from our emotions)

The Alturas Rexton G4 Paradox
As much as dislike Korea, I love the G4 (and their food). This is one vehicle that has absolutely everything from the get-go.
360 Camera, AA/Carplay, Ventilated seats, more than 6 gears. According to Gagan bhaiya, it is fairly capable off the road too (climbing Hatu peak on snow).
The handling is a little lousy from what I hear (have never driven one) and 2019-20 models are going really cheap (23-25L)

Now, I'd love to know about the spare parts and service situation for the next 5-7 years. A little downtime at workshop is acceptable but not too much
That aside, it is an international model, so part availability should be decent, no?

So, do I consider it?

For those interested in the geography, I'll mostly be based out of Lucknow with occasional work trips to Gurgaon through the back alley (Sohna road) just to avoid Delhi and NGT.
The vehicle will be made to travel the entire country based on trips.

I would love ideas, inputs and suggestions.
I must have the vehicle delivered between November and December this year.

Last edited by vredesbyrd : 15th February 2023 at 14:01.
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Old 15th February 2023, 15:53   #2
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re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

It is nearly impossible to drive a ScorpioN in search of FE, so if you have regular highway running - get the diesel and make sure it gets its share of highway running (DPF). Usually a vehicle like this will increase your monthly running, its just so easy to get to places, even if its a crowded city road.

Which variant?

Z8L-D-AT-4WD.
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Old 15th February 2023, 16:07   #3
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re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

My personal suggestion would be either to for a new Scorpio or a used Fortuner.

I'd avoid the Endeavour since Ford has left India and while they may support their cars for a long time, there shall always be a question mark at the back of your(or anyone's) mind. As far as the Rexton is concerned, you can go for it as long you are fine with Mahindra's technician doing trial and error experiments on your car.

Fortuner-

As long as you don't mind a 'used car', the Fortuner is simply the best choice here. Toyota reliability, a big diesel without BS6 gremlins, 4*4 etc. Just get a better infotainment system, a remap(figures are 210 BHP and 520NM torque) and you are all set. Let's not forget that it has the best goon effect, sorry, road presence I mean.

If it has to be a new car, Scorpio is the default choice. It is going to be tough deciding between the 4*4 diesel and the RWD petrol. You need to think of your use case and determine how important that 4*4 hardware is gonna be for you. The petrol will definitely be quicker and be devoid of the DPF gremlins but will suck a lot of fuel(though it should meet your minimum criterion). To sum it up, if fuel efficiency didn't matter to me, I would have gone for the turbo petrol. A bonus with the petrol is that you might get early delivery, much in line with your requirements.

Overall, I'd say, Fortuner> Scorpio Petrol> Scorpio diesel> Endeavour> Alturas.

Last edited by AYP : 15th February 2023 at 16:31.
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Old 15th February 2023, 16:28   #4
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re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
Usually a vehicle like this will increase your monthly running, its just so easy to get to places, even if its a crowded city road.

Which variant?

Z8L-D-AT-4WD.
Agreed. Also, since I work the EMEA shift and work remote, I can perpetually be on the road, work and travel at the same time.
I think I'll just keep driving it whenever I get a crack at it.
Also, it has the magic DPF button where it regens while standing still in an open area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AYP View Post
As long as you don't mind a 'used car', the Fortuner is simply the best choice here. Toyota reliability, a big diesel without BS6 gremlins, 4*4 etc. Just get a better infotainment system, a remap(figures are 210 BHP and 520NM torque) and you are all set.

Scorpio. You need to think of your use case and determine how important that 4*4 hardware is gonna be for you. The petrol will definitely be quicker and be devoid of the DPF gremlins but will suck a lot of fuel(though it should meet your minimum criterion). To sum it up, if fuel efficiency didn't matter to me, I would have gone for the turbo petrol. A bonus with the petrol is that you might get early delivery, much in line with your requirements.

Overall, I'd say, Fortuner> Scorpio Petrol> Scorpio diesel> Endeavour> Alturas.
200+ hp and 500+ nm on a Fortuner just slaps. Drove the Legender back in July and man, it was fun cutting through traffic at [REDACTED] kph
Though I am not sure how loans work on used cars. The Mahindra dealership here is offering me some fantastic interest rates, not sure who would offer a good deal for used car loan.
The cheapest 4WD AT Fortuner in Uttar Pradesh is worth 26L so that translates to about 10-12L of loans (though it is 1st owner and hasn't run that much)

Is delivery of Petrol Scorpios that much quicker? Wasn't aware of it
BS6 Fortuner takes the cake in terms of engine + drivetrain + efficiency but the mStallion is a cut above in drivability
But then again sometimes that deep dark surge of getting stuck in mud when an angry tusker/village mob is charging at you, but how likely is that?

Sidenote: If I get the mStallion, I'm putting a loud exhaust on it once out of warranty
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Old 15th February 2023, 16:41   #5
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re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

Quote:
Originally Posted by vredesbyrd View Post
Also, it has the magic DPF button where it regens while standing still in an open area.
This definitely makes the Scorpio diesel more desirable. Add to it the fact that these maybe the last diesel powered machines we shall ever see on the roads, makes the case for a diesel much stronger. Turbo petrols on the other hand, shall stay for a long time to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vredesbyrd View Post
200+ hp and 500+ nm on a Fortuner just slaps. Drove the Legender back in July and man, it was fun cutting through traffic at [REDACTED] kph
Though I am not sure how loans work on used cars. The Mahindra dealership here is offering me some fantastic interest rates, not sure who would offer a good deal for used car loan.
The cheapest 4WD AT Fortuner in Uttar Pradesh is worth 26L so that translates to about 10-12L of loans (though it is 1st owner and hasn't run that much)

Is delivery of Petrol Scorpios that much quicker? Wasn't aware of it
BS6 Fortuner takes the cake in terms of engine + drivetrain + efficiency but the mStallion is a cut above in drivability
But then again sometimes that deep dark surge of getting stuck in mud when an angry tusker/village mob is charging at you, but how likely is that?

Sidenote: If I get the mStallion, I'm putting a loud exhaust on it once out of warranty
Yes, you will have to take into account the higher interest for a used car. As far as the village mob is concerned, well the Fortuner has the best goon effect errr... road presence I mean and as long as you are wearing a thick gold chain, that should be enough to deter a mob.

On a serious note, if your use case does involve you being in such a situation quite often, 4*4 Scorpio does make sense. Though this would mean that you shall only be able to do [REDACTED-10] kmph speeds and that too while taking more time to get there(as compared to the mStallion).

Choose your poison.

Last edited by AYP : 15th February 2023 at 16:45.
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Old 16th February 2023, 08:49   #6
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re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

How about a relatively less used Hexa AT?

It may tick almost all your boxes, including taking you to jungles (concrete/ the real ones), mountains and what not!

Plus, it is reliable + can take abuse + address your important requirement of "big and bad enough to bother the dirty and rule-breaking neighbors and their misbehaving son's new poop-colored Safari"!

Getting a relatively new/less-used Fortuner may be tricky since owners don't usually depart with such prized possession so early.
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Old 16th February 2023, 09:24   #7
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re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

Any day New Scorpio N AT 4WD Diesel Z8L
Scorpio N Petrol will drain the pockets by drinking petrol.
Alturas is a great vehicle. Very under rated in India and not marketed well at all. Plus it isnt in the market any more so drop it.
Used Fortuner and Endeavour 3.2- tempting but I would prefer the new Scorpio.
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Old 16th February 2023, 10:17   #8
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Re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

As other BHPians have recommended, go brand-new and get yourself the Scorpio-N Diesel AT.

- It's way more user-friendly & comfortable than the Fortuner (heavy steering, bumpy ride).

- The Scorpio-N is vastly improved over the older Scorpio. It's a fantastic SUV.

- Diesel only for your kind of usage. The petrol is a guzzler. I am seeing merely 6 kmpl from the same engine & AT in the city.
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Old 16th February 2023, 11:16   #9
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Re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

Look, I will be quite honest having spent some time with ScorpioN. For the current value - nothing beats it, Z8L D 4x4 should be your first pick. mStallion will kill you every time you go to fuel bunk, so unless your heart is hell bent on that option and you are ready for that slow and sunken feeling every time you go for a tankful, drop it.

Fortuner - I see you are in NCR, all that Toyota badge and reliability goes out of the window as soon as you see a hard cutoff of 10 years of usable age. Forget the issues of bumpy ride and stale interiors, 2017-18 are older engine tunes and aren't the same that you have checked in Legender's 205 bhp 500 nm one. Practically speaking, you are buying a 2017-18 car today for a 3 year use case only... the sooner you accept it the better. 25+ Lakhs for a 3 year use case - you decide. I personally won't touch it as a NCR resident. One can argue that you could sell it later but high resale coming for the cost of high initial purchase value would mean the cash flow differences at the end of the day would still be relatively negligible (strictly my opinion).

Endeavour - superior vehicle to Fortuner in every sense. Because Ford is gone, meaning you could potentially find sweet deals for the same 2017-2018 cars, practically 5L or lesser in price compared to an equivalent Fortuner. Plus you get to experience a better vehicle. Possible resale woes or YOLO - you pick. One can argue that cost of maintenance could be high for Ford - the truth is that for once-in-a-blue-moon issue where Ford service would want to rip your pocket, I believe the FNG market in NCR will surely come handy to bring it down to some extent. My Endeavour still goes to Ford 100% of the times and the maintenance has been painless and surprisingly affordable to be honest. So except for that fear of AT flex plate that you mentioned - an Endeavour at Ford service will be as competitive as Toyota for that matter and I can vouch for it because of my personal experience.

All in all, it's you who would have the pick the final contender. If new it has to be ScorpioN D Z8L 4x4... if used, my recommendation would be an Endeavour, ideally bought directly from an owner.
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Old 16th February 2023, 11:18   #10
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Re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

Looking at how your work is and the lack of daily commute, I would have said go for the petrol ScorpioN. But truth be told, once you get something like a ScorpioN and you have a flexible work-life, the kilometres will rack up and will pinch your pockets. If the usage is like a weekend jaunt or a trip on a whim, okay. But to be on road for majority of time, would have to go for the diesel (good on its own, just that the petrol is faster). That is for the ScorpioN.

Can't really say whether you should go for the ScorpioN or a used Fortuner. Guess depends on your financials. Though IMHO, buying new on loan is far better than buying used on loan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vredesbyrd View Post
their misbehaving son's new poop-colored Safari
Have lost count of non-enthusiasts calling it so. From the Harrier's Calisto Copper to the Grassland beige to the Jet edition.
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Old 16th February 2023, 19:37   #11
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Re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshMachine View Post
How about a relatively less used Hexa AT?
It may tick almost all your boxes, including taking you to jungles (concrete/ the real ones), mountains and what not!
Plus, it is reliable + can take abuse + address your important requirement of "big and bad enough to bother the dirty and rule-breaking neighbors and their misbehaving son's new poop-colored Safari"!
Getting a relatively new/less-used Fortuner may be tricky since owners don't usually depart with such prized possession so early.
That is a very nice suggestion, especially considering the bangin' stereo and the unmatched ride quality on the Hexa. Handling is acceptable too.
But I think it lacks the outright explosiveness the others on the list have. Somehow just didn't connect with the drive.

You're right, nobody would want to part with their Fortuner that easily

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Any day New Scorpio N AT 4WD Diesel Z8L
Scorpio N Petrol will drain the pockets.
Alturas is a great vehicle. Very under rated in India.
Used Fortuner and Endeavour 3.2- tempting but I would prefer the new Scorpio.
Despite the petrol N having drinking habits similar to mine (be it water or otherwise ), still falls into manageable (11 kmpl or more).
However, the 4WD diesel does tick more boxes and a remap after warranty will set things right against the petrol (not that it is even remotely close to slow to being with)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
As other BHPians have recommended, go brand-new and get yourself the Scorpio-N Diesel AT.
- It's way more user-friendly & comfortable than the Fortuner (heavy steering, bumpy ride).
- The Scorpio-N is vastly improved over the older Scorpio. It's a fantastic SUV.
- Diesel only for your kind of usage. The petrol is a guzzler. I am seeing merely 6 kmpl from the same engine & AT in the city.
The decision (in my head / with friends / with parents) is 90% for the 4WD, especially once mom got to know that I'd put a loud exhaust on the petrol variant.
The difference between the old and the new one is absolutely night and day. Also, love the way the mHawk is. I've driven like 1200km on it on two 7 day stretches during my yearly visits to costal Karnataka (XUV500 AT).
I just could not stop driving it. Always needed an excuse to leave the hotel. Would just randomly put my finger on the map and shoot.

During the many test drives of the diesel N, I realised the engine is so amazing that I (staunch automatic supporter) could actually live with the manual. Just lift the clutch and you have climbed the parking lot ramp.

mStallion is another story altogether but I need that 800km tank range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace F355 View Post
Look, I will be quite honest having spent some time with ScorpioN. For the current value - nothing beats it, Z8L D 4x4 should be your first pick. mStallion will kill you every time you go to fuel bunk, so unless your heart is hell bent on that option and you are ready for that slow and sunken feeling every time you go for a tankful, drop it.
Fortuner - I see you are in NCR. 25+ Lakhs for a 3 year use case - you decide. I personally won't touch it as a NCR resident. Cash flow differences at the end of the day would still be relatively negligible (strictly my opinion).
Endeavour - superior vehicle to Fortuner in every sense. Because Ford is gone, meaning you could potentially find sweet deals for the same 2017-2018 cars, practically 5L or lesser in price compared to an equivalent Fortuner. So except for that fear of AT flex plate that you mentioned - an Endeavour at Ford service will be as competitive as Toyota for that matter and I can vouch for it because of my personal experience.
All in all, it's you who would have the pick the final contender. If new it has to be ScorpioN D Z8L 4x4... if used, my recommendation would be an Endeavour, ideally bought directly from an owner.
Now that I think neutrally about it, you are absolutely right about the Fortuner. Might have made some sense had I were living in the east or the south but that is not the case.
Endeavour still is the hottest BoF vehicle our market has ever seen and it is still up in my lists. Let's see if I can get an impossible deal on a 2017-18 vehicle.
Otherwise all bets are off and Z8L 4WD AT wins by default (it is already leading. Plus, it will be new, I will have warranty)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
Looking at how your work is and the lack of daily commute, I would have said go for the petrol ScorpioN. But truth be told, once you get something like a ScorpioN and you have a flexible work-life, the kilometres will rack up and will pinch your pockets. If the usage is like a weekend jaunt or a trip on a whim, okay. But to be on road for majority of time, would have to go for the diesel (good on its own, just that the petrol is faster). That is for the ScorpioN.
Can't really say whether you should go for the ScorpioN or a used Fortuner. Guess depends on your financials. Though IMHO, buying new on loan is far better than buying used on loan.

Have lost count of non-enthusiasts calling it so. From the Harrier's Calisto Copper to the Grassland beige to the Jet edition.
I guess I will rack up kilometers. One of the reasons I skip places is that I didn't want the oil pan or the transmission pan to touch the ground for both the Superb and the Vento.
Yes, the diesel variant makes a lot of sense, especially after seeing videos of people getting really good mileage with 175ps and 400nm. Plus the NVH is top notch as well.

Yeah, I don't think I should take loans for a used car. At all.

On the Safari? I really like it (except the usual anti-AWD/4WD Tata sentiments). It is a grassland beige that the pizza slice-faced rude and misbehaving monkey owns (again, MT because Uttar Pradesh. People here would buy the Big 3 Germans with MT if they could).
His wife keeps stalling the car or keeps blaring punjabi music at max volume while the monkey gets drunk and shouts at his dad. What a fool.

Funny place I live at (considering it is an ex-army residential complex)

Last edited by vredesbyrd : 16th February 2023 at 19:40.
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Old 17th February 2023, 11:41   #12
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Re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

Endravour | Hexa | Alturas are gong and spending this kind of money on discontinued models | exited manufacturers does no makes sense.

Now we are left with Scorpio-N & used Fortuner. If I have to trade between of 30L new car and a used one then i would expect the used one to be less than 20L. Problem is at 20L only old shape / design Fortuner is available which is far behind Scorpio-N in terms of features and driving experience.

At this price point only Sorpio-N makes sense
Or you can get a Thar + Ertiga
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Old 17th February 2023, 13:34   #13
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Re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

Go for Kodaiq if you can stretch your budget for a couple of lacs. This is one vehicle you’ll not regret. Since you’re open to the idea of buying a used vehicle, try and find a used one of 2019/20 vintage. That’ll save you a handful amount and is equally capable when compared to newer models
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Old 17th February 2023, 14:45   #14
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Re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

Jeep Meridian is a fantastic choice, don't know if you have considered it, can choose the variant as per your budget.
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Old 17th February 2023, 15:57   #15
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Re: Body-on-frame Automatic SUV paradox | 30-lakh max spend

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asoon View Post
Endravour | Hexa | Alturas are gong and spending this kind of money on discontinued models | exited manufacturers does no makes sense.
Now we are left with Scorpio-N & used Fortuner. If I have to trade between of 30L new car and a used one then i would expect the used one to be less than 20L. Problem is at 20L only old shape / design Fortuner is available which is far behind Scorpio-N in terms of features and driving experience.
At this price point only Sorpio-N makes sense
Or you can get a Thar + Ertiga
Agreed about the financial situation on used Fortuners and discontinuity of the other listed models. Scorpio N makes the most sense.
On the other option, I'd rather have an all-in-one vehicle than a limited case BoF and an unexciting (in my case) MPV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulerianeeraj View Post
Go for Kodaiq if you can stretch your budget for a couple of lacs. This is one vehicle you’ll not regret. Since you’re open to the idea of buying a used vehicle, try and find a used one of 2019/20 vintage. That’ll save you a handful amount and is equally capable when compared to newer models
Kodiaq is fantastic, drove one back in 2018 for about a 100km. However, I really want a body-on-frame rugged vehicle. Wouldn't feel good about driving a Kodiaq at 50+ kph on a pothole-riddled highway.
Plus the only Skoda service center (though it is a really good one) is about 30km away while Mahindra is at a stone's throw.
Also, a 2019-20 Kodiaq will require a small loan which I am avoiding for used vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SakJel View Post
Jeep Meridian is a fantastic choice, don't know if you have considered it, can choose the variant as per your budget.
I really wanted a body-on-frame RWD or RWD-biased 4WD. The FWD Meridian base model is already past my budget, AWD sits at 37L before government robbery. Plus, not a jeep fan (other than Grand Cherokee).
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