[somspaple]

Originally Posted by Truth is God

still there is no clear answer for the question "does airbags deploy only if the seat belts are used?

looks like doesn't hold true in all cases (read cars/situations).

i've read of an incident in this forum in which the driver described that the his life was saved because of air bags even though he was not wearing seat belts. the car was Skoda (octy i think not sure). it was involved in a highway accident where a truck was backing up on the road in the dead of the night. the car was doing around 80 kmph (again not sure of the speed). searched the forum for the thread but no luck. he had even posted few pics.

[dushmish]

Best value for money with safety features is Dzire ZDi. Nothing beats sensible and conservative driving though.

[Dose]

IIHS Roof Crush

IIHS has announced that, beginning in September of 2009, their 2010 TOP SAFETY PICK program will include an assessment of vehicle roof strength. According to IIHS, the decision to address roof strength is based on studies conducted by the Institute which found that increasing vehicle roof strength has the potential to reduce the risk of fatal or incapacitating injuries by over twenty percent. IIHS will base its roof strength assessment on the current federal roofcrush standard found in FMVSS 216, however, it will be considerably more stringent relative to earning a "good" rating. A "good" rating will require a peak strength-to-weight (SWR) ratio of 4.0 within 5 inches of plate travel. IIHS says it will complete front, side, rear and roof strength evaluation of small SUVs (nonluxury), midsize cars (nonluxury), and minicars this year and will test by request other 2010 models identified by manufacturers as TOP SAFETY PICK candidates.

Sources:

MotorVehicleRegs.COM: IIHS Roof Crush

IIHS to Launch Roof-Strength Ratings - KickingTires

Crash-test report backs stronger roofs on SUVs - USATODAY.com

[Dose]

The new 2009 EuroNCAP rating reveals surprising information about the side impact pole test. In pre-2009, they would state whether the car passed or failed the pole test in the comments section and would indicate the pass by putting a star on the dummy's head. Now, it seems they have removed that star even from the pre-2009 results. Strange.

Anyway, with the 2009 data, they now have a feature where they give more info. about how the pole damages the entire body and not just the head. One can access the info. by clicking on "Pole" and watch the colors change on the dummy as well as see how many points were given. It seems that despite the latest side protection, no current cars are able to achieve the good/green level of protection for the torso when hit by a pole. They can achieve the good/green level for head and torso when hit by the moving car barrier but fall short when hit by the pole.

Even though the Opel Insignia and A4 both had the same colours for the pole test, the A4 was given 0.2 points more making it the highest scoring car in the pole test (7.7 points) currently, unless I'm mistaken:

Euro NCAP - For safer cars | Audi A4

The Superb also did better than the Accord and Camry/Avensis.

Hopefully, manufacturers will try to gain perfect scores in both the side car test and the side pole test.

[rider60]

hey were volvo cars discussed already?

dint go thoroughly through all the pages so asking pardon me if already discussed, volvo's motto is safety and its their top priority so can some one discuss and enlighten about those cars, i know the prices of these cars are really high but then lets have them discussed too i want to learn about these cars launched in India.

Volvo S80 V8 AWD All Features - CarWale.com

Volvo XC90 V8 AWD All Features - CarWale.com

the feature list of the new cars top models, gurus please enlighten us.

[Dose]

Originally Posted by rider60

volvo's motto is safety and its their top priority so can some one discuss and enlighten about those cars, i know the prices of these cars are really high but then lets have them discussed too i want to learn about these cars launched in India.

Volvo S80 V8 AWD All Features - CarWale.com

Volvo XC90 V8 AWD All Features - CarWale.com

Even though they emphasize safety, not all Volvo's fare better than their competitors in crash tests. It is better to look at individual Volvo model crash tests when deciding what to buy.

The 2009 S80 scored well in the IIHS test and has a rollover sensor. The only other car in its category with a rollover sensor is the 2009 E-class which had worse results in the IIHS side impact test than the S80.

The XC90 scored well in IIHS and EuroNCAP, has a rollover sensor, and has a boron steel-reinforced roof that is designed to protect passengers in a rollover. Youtube has quite a few XC90 rollover video's showing how well the roof holds up in a rollover. In a head-on, offset accident with another SUV or lighter car, the XC90, being a heavy SUV (2100 Kgs. or 4600 lbs.) with excellent crash results, should fare better than the other vehicle.

For India, where speeds are lower but the accident rate is higher, one would need more passive than active safety. So, the XC90 seems like the best bet. For developed countries where people travel at higher speeds and are more likely to swerve around an object in an emergency situation, active safety is more of a priority. In this case, I would bet on the Cayenne.

The Cayenne seems to be the best engineered SUV to handle a swerve at 60-80 mph. And since it shares the same platform and technology as the Touareg which did well in the EuroNCAP test, and I have seen the Cayenne's body structure blueprint where it shows high strength steel being used in the pillars and roof, I would bet on the Cayenne as a safe vehicle with very good active safety and good passive safety.

The EuroNCAP's pole test seems to be a tough test especially now with the 2009 rating which shows the injuries on the dummy. No one has been able to get maximum points and the new Volvo XC60 got only 6.6 points in the pole test and a marginal rating for the dummy's thorax:

Euro NCAP - For safer cars | Volvo XC60

By the way, the Mercedes USA site now shows the C, E, and S-class all with rollover sensors. Good for them, for consumers, and for competition. Now, they need to work on their crash test results. Next, Audi (except the SUV's and A8) and BMW (except the SUV's) need to also install rollover sensors.

[rider60]

thank you dose for the detailed write up, does any one else have anything more too add or perhaps other cars, brands and new safety features introduced in the cars lately?

[patil]

i20 in small cars as it has abs 6 airbags good build quality with crumple zones, side impact beams in the doors etc. for a person who cant afford expensive cars but wants safety features i20 surely is the best bet.

[Dose]

Originally Posted by Dose

For India, where speeds are lower but the accident rate is higher, one would need more passive than active safety.

Here's a link to a post which underlines the need for safer cars and cautious driving techniques on Indian one-way highways:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1315112

[Dose]

A few hours ago, Euro-NCAP (Euroncap/European New Car Assessment Programme) released their latest results. Four out of the six vehicles either are or soon will be offered in India (yay!), though not to the same safety specifications (specs.)/options as the ones offered in Europe (nay!)

Here are the results:

Euro NCAP - For safer cars | Latest results

I am very happy that Euroncap released the 2009 i20's results today instead of later in the year or even next year since I have been telling friends that we have to wait for the results before I can recommend the better overall car between the Fabia and the i20.

Imho, the i20 Asta-O is now, arguably, the safest car in India under 10 lakhs and is available with an extended warranty and a good reputation for reliability and service unlike the Fabia. The only question is whether people should buy the i20 with the current 1.2 litre engine or wait till the end of the year for the 1.4 petrol or the diesel. Hopefully, the 1.4 petrol and the diesel will also be offered in the Asta-O trim level.

I am disappointed the 2009 Q5 is not strong/smart enough and actually scored worse than the 2009 Superb in the side pole test for the driver's thorax but it tied the Superb with 7.3 points for the overall pole test. In the same pole test, the i20 front test dummy occupants got the same color (yellow = adequate) and type of injuries as the Superb but higher points (7.8) which leads me to suspect that someone has screwed up the points allocation for probably the i20. I suspect the i20 should actually get 7.3 points to equal the '09 Superb and Q5. By the way, it seems the driver of the Q5 and the i20 have almost the same protection in a front offset impact -- unbelievable.


These crash test results show how darn well engineered the i20 is. For a car under 10 lakhs, designed/engineered in Germany, assembled in India, exported to Europe, sold to Indians in close to the same safety specs., to go toe-to-toe with the big Superb and bigger Q5 and come out equal in certain aspects is something excellent to behold. Kudos to the people who were a part of the i20's safety engineering team!

Sadly, the Jazz's front and side impact results are a joke compared to the i20. Honda needs to shape up. However, according to the IIHS, the Jazz/Fit did better in their tests. We must see how it did in the U.S. government tests. Maybe the IIHS test is easier on the car or the manufacturing quality control is to blame or maybe the U.S. and Euro versions have some minor structural differences.

Regarding the 2009 Alto/A-star, the Zxi level is likely significantly safer than its predecessor and is probably better than the '08 i10 Asta since the i10 fared badly in the Euroncap front impact test where the driver thorax injury risk was rated as brown which means weak.

I am waiting to see which future vehicle will be the first to ace the side impact pole test and whether it will be available in India with the same safety specs.

[Dose]

Originally Posted by Dose

Sadly, the Jazz's front and side impact results are a joke compared to the i20. Honda needs to shape up. However, according to the IIHS, the Jazz/Fit did better in their tests. We must see how it did in the U.S. government tests. Maybe the IIHS test is easier on the car or the manufacturing quality control is to blame or maybe the U.S. and Euro versions have some minor structural differences.

I checked the safercar.gov website (U.S. government) and the 2009 Fit/Jazz received 5 stars (remember it's not an offset front impact and the side impact is at an angle to replicate both cars in motion) for the front impact. In the side impact, the rear passenger got four stars (vs. three stars for the 2009 Accord saloon.) In the IIHS test, the '09 Jazz got a perfect front crash rating but in the side impact, the driver's pelvis and the passenger cell/structural safety cage got a yellow/acceptable rating. Therefore, it's no surprise that latest Euroncap side impact test was able to again show the less-than-perfect side protection.

However, since only the Euroncap showed a less-than-perfect front impact score with unusual injuries occuring to the front occupants' legs and feet leads me to suspect that Honda quality control is to blame. In two out of three tests, the car was did well. But the Euro car sample must have had some defective welding spots.

A similar case happened with the Q7. The IIHS 2007 sample had perfect scores for front and side. But the Euroncap 2006 sample had the following problem:

Euro NCAP - For safer cars | Audi Q7
IIHS-HLDI: Audi Q7

Front impact
Poor welding resulted in rupture of the footwell area. There was separation of the seam connecting the firewall to the footwell and failure of spot-welds in the footwell and its connection to the A-pillar. Audi have informed us that they have now improved control over this part of production but the car lost points for its performance in this area. Structures in the dashboard presented a potential risk to the knees and femurs of the driver.

After the Euroncap exposed the welding quality control problem, Audi seems to have fixed their mistake and the IIHS sample showed how well a Q7 with correct welding could do in tests.

Hopefully, Honda fixes the suspected quality control and asks Euroncap to retest the Jazz for front impact. Till then, the i20 Asta-O seems like the safer buy.

[GTO]

Thanks for that info, Dose. How much ever I dislike Hyundai's decision to power the fab i20 with a puny 1.2L engine, there isn't a doubt that it's the safest hatchback one can buy.

P.S. That li'l 1.2 liter probably makes the i20 even safer (by restricting its speeds )!

[Dose]

My pleasure, GTO, and my thanks to you and the rest of the team for providing a wonderful place where we can educate each other on the finer points of automobile enthusiasm. With this kind of unbiased service available to Indian car enthusiasts, and the high standard to which we hold ourselves and our country, it is no wonder that we have a potentially bright future.

Ironically, the advantage of a more powerful engine during overtaking is a disadvantage when trying to keep cruising speeds down to a level that does not exceed the active/passive safety tolerances built into a vehicle. Recently, I read that even though the frontal offset crash test is run at 64 kmph/40 mph, it is designed to simulate two vehicles, in the same weight category, both traveling at about 55 kmph/34 mph to give a combined closing speed of 110 kmph/69 mph.

From my experience, for those of us who love speed, it is difficult break the habit and slow down yet maintain the same level of alertness behind the wheel. And what's funny is that those passengers who have been conditioned to being driven at above average speeds now feel out of water when subjected to a slower, safer speed and actually request the driver to drive faster!

[joecherian]

Thought of putting some oxygen in to this thread again.
Keeping in mind the fact that " it is not the car that is safe, but the driver", would like to put forward a question, viz, which vehicle is more safe out of the 2 - low end safari verses ANHC. Put in another word, if the low end safari ( which does not boast of any passive safety features like ABS,airbag) has a head on collision (pray that accidents shouldn't happen in this world) with a ANHC, which one is likely to have lesser damages to person and vehicle ?
PS:Who knows, the answer to this question might help me win a battle with my wife ( who wants to buy a ANHC) against me who wants to own the beast but can't afford the GX and VX versions (due to Vitamin M issues :-))

[Dose]

Originally Posted by joecherian

if the low end safari ( which does not boast of any passive safety features like ABS,airbag) has a head on collision (pray that accidents shouldn't happen in this world) with a ANHC, which one is likely to have lesser damages to person and vehicle ?

joecherian, let us forget about vehicle damage. Passenger injury is far more important, imho. Unless you can see the future, you have no idea if you will be involved in a head-on crash or not, and if it will be a single or multiple vehicle crash, and if, in the case of a multiple vehicle crash, that oncoming vehicle will weigh more, less or the same as your vehicle. In a single or multiple vehicle crash, you have no idea if you will also rollover, hit a wall, tree or concrete pole either in a front, side or rear impact.

Which is why it is wiser, imho, to buy the car with the highest overall active and passive safety and that the benefits of all those safety features are confirmed by independent crash testing. There is only one vehicle below 10 lakhs that meets all the criteria currently -- the i20 Asta-O.

Buying the heavier vehicle does not guarantee less damage to oneself and one's passengers. Unless the heavier vehicle has been engineered correctly, please remember that the weight can be used against you if you are ever involved in a single vehicle crash like a rollover. Even if you buy a heavier vehicle, there is always going to be someone who has either a heavier or lighter vehicle than you.

To answer your question, if you are lucky enough to weigh twice as much as the oncoming vehicle and you and your passengers are wearing seatbelts, you have the higher probability of sustaining less injuries compared to the lighter vehicle and its occupants. So, if you are driving a Safari which hits a City in a head-on, offset, manner, since the Safari weighs almost twice as much, you will probably get away with less injuries provided everyone wears seatbelts. And if you are unlucky enough to hit a vehicle that weighs twice as much as your Safari, you have the higher probability of sustaining more injuries compared to the heavier vehicle and its occupants provided all are wearing seatbelts.

If you hit, at 55 Kmph, another Safari with your Safari, there is no weight advantage, but plenty of disadvantages and unknown factors since Tata vehicles have not been subjected to Euroncap, IIHS, safercar.gov, and other public, reputable type of tests. If you hit another City with your City, again no weight advantage but at least the City is based on the Fit/Jazz platform which has been crash tested and has been shown to yield better results than some other cars.

Now add to this calculation that the Safari, like most non-safety oriented SUV's, probably does not have a roof that can support its own weight as well as most cars can during a rollover. Therefore, in a rollover, the City has a higher chance of not breaking the belted passengers' necks and backs compared to the Safari.

Buy the vehicle with the best overall safety within your budget and hope that you hit a vehicle in the same weight and height category if you are ever involved in a head-on accident.

Between the City, i20 Asta-O and Safari, I recommend the i20 Asta-O first, the latest City second, and the Safari last.