[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Sir, i am saying this only after trying it in all the 3 vehicles & then comparing the trio!
innova's drivability is good, but not as good as the scorpio. quick acceleration in any gear is not innova's forte.

What makes you think that I havent driven the three. I have also driven the Xylo and Innova is still more driveable.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

heck, where the innova climbs a flyover in 5th gear, the scorpio gains momentum & overtakes in the same gear! extra 20 bhp power & 10 kgm torque in the scorpio is not a waste!

I am yet to drive a Scorpio which can do it... mhawk or otherwise.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

professional testers say the innova's roll-on timing (40-100 kmph in 5th gear) is 19.5 seconds whereas the scorpio does it in 14.61 seconds & the safari does it in 15.96 seconds. who's drivability is better?

I dont need a professional tester to tell me which one is better. I can always drive and conclude.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

also, i have read the scorpio 4x4 is still available with the CRDe engine.

No its not. I was present at refreshed Scorpio launch in New Delhi and Mahindra executive's attitude towards the 4X4 wasnt encouraging. 4x4 is needed for rough potholed roads is all what they knew of a 4x4 system. I am not surprised Mahindra forgoes LSD in the 4x4 version.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by bhp1

That was informative Extreme Torque!
BTW, how would Innova fare on Lahaul-Spiti, Leh-Ladakh treks?
Is there a need for a 4x4 vehicle there?

Also, if it comes to choosing between 4x2 Scorpio or Safari, which one would be your pick?

All I can say is it will fare as good if not better than any other 4X2 pseudo SUV's around. As far as I amm concerned, if I am buying a 4X2 Safari or Scorpio, I am only buying an imposter... not the real thing.
And guess what.. going by what Mahindra is doing, they arent even selling the real thing.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I am yet to drive a Scorpio which can do it... mhawk or otherwise.

I have not mentioned anywhere that you have or have not driven these vehicles!!

about the testers, well they are unbiased & most importantly, they have the equipments to give a precise judgement. most importantly, these equipments and not biased to any vehicle like human minds!

next time you come to mumbai, lets have a drive in my mHawk. we can do a comparo between the scorpio & innova. that may help us to come to a fair decision about which one is more drivable. my innova driver says the scorpio is better to drive, after just driving it for around 100 kms! here, i would like to emphasise the point is that the scorpio is just better to drive, thats all what i am saying. overall, innova is still a better product.

the reason i am so confident about the innova & scorpio is that i drive these vehicles almost daily & many times, i drive them back to back. the difference is instantly noticeable.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

if I am buying a 4X2 Safari or Scorpio, I am only buying an imposter... not the real thing.
And guess what.. going by what Mahindra is doing, they arent even selling the real thing.

oh gosh! i am driving an imposter!
what if someone like me... a city dweller needs an SUV for its image/styling/driving comfort/ground clearance/ease of ingress or whatever reason??? what if i am not interested in hardcore off roading? so i may not buy a 4x4. simple.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I am not surprised Mahindra forgoes LSD in the 4x4 version.

Does the Gypsy have LSDs?
To the best of my knowledge, no.

[hrag]

Completely

Originally Posted by Red Liner

This is still the case in the refresh - no change. I own one, but seem comfortable. Had a couple of taller guys venture into the front seat and their legs do touch the steering wheel.

I was one of those taller guys. The only reason I didn't even consider the Scorpio was the fact that even with the seat pushed fully back, the steering wheel still touches my thighs - not a very comfortable position to drive. Same situation with prabhuav's Scorpio.

The reason I'm highlighting this is - it is very important for you as a driver to feel comfortable in the vehicle you're considering. The rest (all other attributes / lack of them) can be adjusted to but not the seating position.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

i have been driving a scorpio for 6 years regularly at triple digit speeds & have never had an accident till now, touch wood!

Sir, kindly excuse me for this doubt. Your profile age and this statement (highighted) above don't go together.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

oh gosh! i am driving an imposter!
what if someone like me... a city dweller needs an SUV for its image/styling/driving comfort/ground clearance/ease of ingress or whatever reason??? what if i am not interested in hardcore off roading? so i may not buy a 4x4. simple.

I said "as far as I am concerned"... I am sorry, from next time on will put such things in bold

[shankar.balan]

back to "bashing" eh? looks like the Scorpio and Safari owners will always be at loggerheads - and never the twain shall meet!

and anyway why are we saying that Mahindra is not selling the "real thing"? What about the other manufacturers including Tata and so on? Why are these comments made by so many people here, so biased?

Frankly if one needs a proper 4x4 stick with the old Major or MM540/MM550 - they are proven as is the Gypsy.
All the others at best are "soft roaders" including the Safari. And by the way even the Safari 4x4 I would personally hesitate to take into seriously extreme conditions of slush, water etc on account of its humongous weight and proportions. It will probably sink! Scorpio 4x4 also I would hesitate to take into water and deep slush on account of its body weight. Add to this, the electricals and electronics on these vehicles and I am sure a dose of water will gum up the works!

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

back to "bashing" eh? looks like the Scorpio and Safari owners will always be at loggerheads - and never the twain shall meet!

Bashing.... seriously where? If saying that Innova is more driveable than Scorpio amount to bashing then yes I am guilty

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

and anyway why are we saying that Mahindra is not selling the "real thing"? What about the other manufacturers including Tata and so on? Why are these comments made by so many people here, so biased?

Again that was my opinion. Tata gives you a 4X4 option ever since in Safari even when there were engine changes, 3.0 Litre or the new 2.2 DICOR so if you want you can buy it which is not the case right now with Scorpio. Even the theme of advertisements tells you where the respective company wants to position its product. One urges you to reclaim your life, go outdoors and live not merely exist in contrast to the mighty muscular thingie which goes around sand dunes and then is surrounded by civics and bikes on a highway.
What good is an SUV without a 4-wheel drive? Is it even an SUV... as someone said earlier MUV would be more like it but then it wont massage the SUV ego.. isnt? Again this is just my opinion you may or may not subscribe to it.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

All the others at best are "soft roaders" including the Safari. And by the way even the Safari 4x4 I would personally hesitate to take into seriously extreme conditions of slush, water etc on account of its humongous weight and proportions. It will probably sink! Scorpio 4x4 also I would hesitate to take into water and deep slush on account of its body weight. Add to this, the electricals and electronics on these vehicles and I am sure a dose of water will gum up the works!

Well the point is whatever it is... a 4x4 version of either Scorpio or Safari is much more capable and 'real' (for the want of a better word) than the 4x2 version. A 4x2 version of either of them is a huge compromise if you compare it to an Innova.... handling, interiors, quality, reliability, there's no comparison. So why would someone buy a pseudo SUV.... well there again the butch looks and the ego massage forgoing the virtues of a vehicle.
I am guessing you drive a 4x2 Scorpio?

[amitk26]

Safari Lx , Scorpio Lx and Innova G !!! BHP1 what happened to Pajero ? You started the thread stating that budget is not a bar and the discussion on this thread was on Pajero , Endeaver and few others so how come it is back to usual scorpio safari business of T-BHP ?
If you need absolute japanese reliability so why still discussing Scorpio , Safari ?

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Does the Gypsy have LSDs?
To the best of my knowledge, no.

Pardon me do not know how Gypsy came in here but how does it negate the need of this perticular equipment on a 4X4 that too weighing in excess of 2 Tonns ( as the discussion was in context of Scorpio).

[venuraja]

I had driven Innova for about 220km . It was my relatives vehicle of about
one year old.
It surprised me in these aspects.

1) I could easily overtake many vehicles ,many cars all along the highway. It surprises by how qucikly it accelarates.
2) There is a vibration, and the driving position is not very comfortable .
I am 6 foot tall person . I was trired just by driving for 220 km!!

3) Total 6 persons were sitting and its belly rubbed on a speed braker which was a very small one. Again when I was crossing this same speed braker on return,
I stepped over this very slowly and this time it did not rub against speed braker.

4) On a bigger speed brakers which I did not notice until the last minute
it heaved up and down , made a big thud sound and alarmed ,created panick in the minds of the occupants.

5) The innova commands respect on the road goers.

More number of Innovas you see in Hyderabad than Safari for example.
And more number of Scorpios you see than Safaris.
On the back seat Scorpio heaves,jumps throws you up and down.
But it has wonderful accelaration.

[Red Liner]

Actually hv kumar drives a 4x2 scorpio and i really dont have to get into the details of where he has taken his 2 wheel powered machine. Its all about the driver, 4x4 or 4x2 is just a tool for you to use. I have seen guys using 4x2's better than people who use 4x4's. Go see the taxis in the hills and those are the guys who should be advising us on these things. All the rest of us are nothing but pseudos in pseudo suv's, whether 4x4 or 4x2.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Pardon me do not know how Gypsy came in here but how does it negate the need of this perticular equipment on a 4X4 that too weighing in excess of 2 Tonns

Tons. Or tonnes.
...maybe because LSD is much over-rated as mandatory equipment in SUVs for people who intend to tour/travel rather than go for OTR meets?

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by hrag

Sir, kindly excuse me for this doubt. Your profile age and this statement (highighted) above don't go together.

yes sir, i started driving much before i got my license, not something to be proud of, i know.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

A 4x2 version of either of them is a huge compromise if you compare it to an Innova.... handling, interiors, quality, reliability, there's no comparison. So why would someone buy a pseudo SUV.... well there again the butch looks and the ego massage forgoing the virtues of a vehicle.
I am guessing you drive a 4x2 Scorpio?

not really. different people have different choices. not all will like the van-like looks of the innova. 90% of the scorpios on the roads are 4x2, if everbody think the way you do, mahindra wont sell 35,000 scorpios a year!

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by venuraja

2) There is a vibration, and the driving position is not very comfortable .
I am 6 foot tall person . I was trired just by driving for 220 km!!

3) Total 6 persons were sitting and its belly rubbed on a speed braker which was a very small one. Again when I was crossing this same speed braker on return,
I stepped over this very slowly and this time it did not rub against speed braker.

4) On a bigger speed brakers which I did not notice until the last minute
it heaved up and down , made a big thud sound and alarmed ,created panick in the minds of the occupants.

you are the only person other than me who finds the driving position of the innova uncomfortable.

your 3rd & 4th point is exactly what i was pointing out to bhp1. the suspension bottoms out on full load & its underbody scrapes quite easily. the big thud was again because of the suspension. it is normal.

@ mods: sorry mods, i could not multi-quote this post.

[bhp1]

Wow Guys, we are going great guns! Sorry for my slumber, I was standing by the way side & trying to absorb whatever I could from between the discussion among esteemed members. Thanks.

Originally Posted by nvldvr

4 years warranty for the safari is fine. But then from all the posts from various forums in tbhp, what one makes out is that for most problems, Tata guys just tend to go about changing parts. Not sure how much of fault diagnosis goes into handling various issues. It wont hurt at all as long as the warranty is there, you get all spare parts for free and keep feeling good about new parts in your car. But what about after the warranty. If instead of trying to find the actual defects, tata guys just go on changing parts and charging you a hefty fee, would that be fine?

Yes, that's precisely my concern too, what after warranty is over?
Also, if one decides to sell the vehicle after 4 years, resale will be a big issue!

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

All I can say is it will fare as good if not better than any other 4X2 pseudo SUV's around. As far as I amm concerned, if I am buying a 4X2 Safari or Scorpio, I am only buying an imposter... not the real thing..

I agree completely, in 4x2 guise, Innova beats the competition hollow!
Scorpio/Safari will need gens. of evolution to be able to match the class leader!

Originally Posted by hrag

I was one of those taller guys. The only reason I didn't even consider the Scorpio was the fact that even with the seat pushed fully back, the steering wheel still touches my thighs - not a very comfortable position to drive. Same situation with prabhuav's Scorpio.

The reason I'm highlighting this is - it is very important for you as a driver to feel comfortable in the vehicle you're considering. The rest (all other attributes / lack of them) can be adjusted to but not the seating position.

Similar situation here! I actually get confused when some Scorpio users who are ~6ft tall claim that the front seat is spacious enough.
From day one, I always found Scorpio's front seat legroom "compromised", knees would touch the dash & tilt steering position would foul with the thighs.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Frankly if one needs a proper 4x4 stick with the old MM540/MM550,

On your recommendations, I have asked a couple of dealers to fetch a 550 for me, but Im unaware of how comfortable/uncomfortable it is!

Originally Posted by amitk26

Safari Lx , Scorpio Lx and Innova G !!! BHP1 what happened to Pajero ? You started the thread stating that budget is not a bar and the discussion on this thread was on Pajero , Endeaver and few others so how come it is back to usual scorpio safari business of T-BHP ?If you need absolute japanese reliability so why still discussing Scorpio , Safari ?

Pajero was ruled out because of being too old.
Endy. has a bad ride, so goes against the topic heading "Comfortable high miler"!
Apart from reliability, I want comfort!

Originally Posted by venuraja

I could easily overtake many vehicles ,many cars all along the highway. It surprises by how qucikly it accelarates.
2) There is a vibration, and the driving position is not very comfortable .
I am 6 foot tall person . I was trired just by driving for 220 km!!
5) The innova commands respect on the road goers.

True, Innova's high speed composure is brilliant.
I would like to know more about the driving position, as I always thought Innova's driving position was comfortable!
Im not concerned about underbelly scrapping speed breakers, as my vehicle won't be fully laden at all times!
About the 'respect thing", is it more or less than Scorpio/Safari?


P.S: Scorpio has a lone crusader in the form of Raj! If I end up with a Scorp, it shall be entirely due to his persistence!