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Old 4th September 2013, 08:40   #31
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Default Re: The Circle of Recoveries OTR

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Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
===I was driving Gogi's jeep on the way back. All the snatching had taken it's toll. The alternator bracket came off and the alternator stopped working. Thus in a bit, the wipers, horns and lights died. The GB mounts were also broken.
I am wondering how the snatch recovery affected the alternator bracket ?? & also the GB mounts, at the most it will bend or tore some chassis parts connected. The GB mounts must have had some previous injury.

Quote:
Remember, please never snatch with regular tow ropes or metal ropes, it will take a toll.
Thats true .

Also the Lambda Hubs seem to have a reputation of their own, better not to have them . I think occasional use (engage -disengage) plus some preventive maintenance will help.

But I am more surprised by the level of available tooling & recovery gear you carried. (or practically lack of it ).

Are we taking things for granted ? or much lightly ??

What message does this thread gives ??

Sudarshan
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Old 4th September 2013, 09:11   #32
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Well Rajubhai maybe the GB mounts were nursing an older injury and maybe the alternator bracket also was weak, we will never know but the fact is, that we did quite a lot of vigorous snatching and that must have taken its toll definitely. It was the mount that the crossmember sits on which was completely broken. My jeep was used in recovering Sanjay Kale's and Prashant's jeep which were completely immobile from getting stuck in really deep slush and they got stuck more than once or twice as the whole path was like a slush field. We would have needed at least two MMs to get them out so there was a lot of snatching involved and we were prepared for some outcome like this. The jeep is now in the garage changing all mounts and strengthening all brackets,(alternator/ac/power steering reservoir/battery) etc.

Yes true, I think we took a lot for granted beginning with the the area,
without ever having driven in it. Never expected the slush to be so deep as we could easily walk on it and seemed hard enough, only we realised later when the jeeps just simply sunk in. So we all live and learn.

It's completely true about the Lambda hubs. I also believe they should not be put. Firstly it's a pain locking and unlocking them and I have had a time when I just checked randomly before one AKC on my CJ and was shocked to find one hub completely loose.

Coming back to this thread, We all learnt a lesson that 1) we should have listened to Tejas when he said to bring All our recovery gear (a hi lift and tracks would have been of immense help here), 2)must check our jeeps thoroughly before such an important recce/Otr, especially keeping in mind that jeeps don't often show off their internal battle wounds, 3) must remember to carry our winch remotes always and the most important thing which we all must learn from here is that 4) have fun whatever you do and don't let any situation bog you down, therefore go in a group of like minded people rather than have someone tell you " I told you so" .

Raju Bhai this thread mainly outlines the good time we had coupled with how one should not take any place or situation for granted and always be prepared for the worst and manage recovery, with or without gear.

Last edited by V-16 : 4th September 2013 at 09:32.
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Old 4th September 2013, 09:15   #33
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Default Re: The Circle of Recoveries OTR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
I am wondering how the snatch recovery affected the alternator bracket ?? & also the GB mounts, at the most it will bend or tore some chassis parts connected. The GB mounts must have had some previous injury.
You are a smart guy, you'll figure out how repeated snatches can affect mounts. And yes, previous injury may have added insult to it.


Quote:
Thats true .

Also the Lambda Hubs seem to have a reputation of their own, better not to have them . I think occasional use (engage -disengage) plus some preventive maintenance will help.


Quote:
But I am more surprised by the level of available tooling & recovery gear you carried. (or practically lack of it ).
Not me. I was just a driver. I drove gogi's jeep till OTR venue and back. And as mentioned previously, short of physically checking every vehicle, what could i do? It's a democracy, i can't go ordering people. And people did learn from their mistakes and hopefully won't repeat them again. Taking a holier than thou approach isn't really called for IMO.

Quote:
Are we taking things for granted ? or much lightly ??

What message does this thread gives ??
Smart people can deduce the message themselves. Let me just say this:

Have you heard of a quote by Eleanor: "Safety is not a gadget but a state of mind"

This can be applied to not only safety but other things as well.
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Old 4th September 2013, 10:12   #34
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Default a lil bit of DIY

Hi Tejas & Gogi,

You guys have highlighted one of the key aspects of off-road driving.

Preparation and understanding the terrain.

A few observations
1) The FWH can easily remedied if you have Size 5 Allen Key,
a) remove the locking cap,
b) unseat the rotating lock assy,
c) re-align Spring, Rotating Lock and Locking Cap and fix it back.

wrt to the winches, an electric wire 6-8mm can be used to actuate the solenoids, in case of emergency.

Snatch recovery can only affect the cross-member and engine mounts if the spike arrrestor is not installed or not installed properly.

Sometimes each and every vehicle needs to be checked personally its called scrutiny . Not fun, never democratic but some of the reasons for lack of equipment and vehicle preparation is quite refreshing.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 4th September 2013, 12:02   #35
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Default Re: a lil bit of DIY

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Originally Posted by V-16 View Post
The jeep is now in the garage changing all mounts and strengthening all brackets,(alternator/ac/power steering reservoir/battery) etc.
Gogi bhai it will be very hard to alter or strengthen the existing brackets like of alternator, they are not fabrication made (unless specially made)

Quote:
without ever having driven in it. Never expected the slush to be so deep as we could easily walk on it and seemed hard enough, only we realised later when the jeeps just simply sunk in. So we all live and learn.
Simple, check if there are holes on the ground, they are made by the " Khekda" .Are one to two inch in dia, also the termite & ant nests ( these are worst ) they make the ground hollow & before you imagine you are simply a foot or two deep in the ground, vehicle on its belly & wheels rotating without moving an inch. Trust me only tracked vehicles go for this.

Quote:
It's completely true about the Lambda hubs. I also believe they should not be put. Firstly it's a pain locking and unlocking them and I have had a time when I just checked randomly before one AKC on my CJ and was shocked to find one hub completely loose.
Time to abandon the Myth , throw them away.

.
Quote:
Raju Bhai this thread mainly outlines the good time we had coupled with how one should not take any place or situation for granted and always be prepared for the worst and manage recovery, with or without gear.
Gogi bhai, our part of western ghats is called as Sahyadri , its unforgiving for the take it easy policy. Monsoons are bit good for water supply & shade but Dont test it, thats all I can say.

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Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
You are a smart guy, you'll figure out how repeated snatches can affect mounts. And yes, previous injury may have added insult to it.
I think alternator bracket is mounted on engine & unless the engine mountings given way,& they have banged on chassis or something ... its hard to break them.

Quote:
Not me. I was just a driver. I drove gogi's jeep till OTR venue and back. And as mentioned previously, short of physically checking every vehicle, what could i do? It's a democracy, i can't go ordering people. And people did learn from their mistakes and hopefully won't repeat them again. Taking a holier than thou approach isn't really called for IMO.
Oh no, you are no more a common Jeeper now, you have four times more responsibility than any other people like us, remember you are a Trainer & that too of international standard.

Well democracy....?? we all know the state of affairs of this democratic nation, its hopeless.


Quote:
Have you heard of a quote by Eleanor: "Safety is not a gadget but a state of mind"




Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Tejas & Gogi,

You guys have highlighted one of the key aspects of off-road driving.

Preparation and understanding the terrain.

A few observations===
Snatch recovery can only affect the cross-member and engine mounts if the spike arrrestor is not installed or not installed properly.

Sometimes each and every vehicle needs to be checked personally its called scrutiny . Not fun, never democratic but some of the reasons for lack of equipment and vehicle preparation is quite refreshing.

Regards,

Arka
Plus one Sir.


Sudarshan
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Old 4th September 2013, 13:09   #36
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Default Re: The Circle of Recoveries OTR

Wow this thread portrays real community spirit, everyone gets stuck and everyone spares brain power and horse power for rescue effort, that's Team BHP, loved the narration, the graphic story of the jeeps getting stuck is hilarious and the rescue planning is a guideline of what to do or what not to do for others on this forum with lesser experience.
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Old 4th September 2013, 13:20   #37
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Default Re: a lil bit of DIY

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Oh no, you are no more a common Jeeper now, you have four times more responsibility than any other people like us, remember you are a Trainer & that too of international standard.
Yes exactly. I have been teaching them as we progressed through the day. Was with prashant and instructing him on driving techniques, making sure people stayed away from the recovery snap zone, etc.

It's a slow learning process and one can't expect to teach everything in a day nor can't expect someone to retain everything in a day.

It was told the snatching does take a toll and do it at your own risk. These are grown up mature people and not children. They made an informed decision and i respect them and i made sure no one got hurt.

They came to have fun and i'm not like some people who keep shouting all the time. As a matter of fact, we have a full module on Adult Education which is extremely interesting and advises that shouting is not the way to go for adults. Infact shouting leads to dissent and groups land up splintering as we have seen happening. Thus, the slow and steady approach. We all had fun during the OTR, bonded as a group which is the most fundamental thing... to work as a team. Chapter 1 cleared. Communication was perfect and people got out safe. Slow and steady we will get them there.

People stayed back till all cars were out and safe and people calling at midnight to inquire if everyone has reached home safely. Hell, i'd say the biggest lesson on unity was taught and achieved and i know that anyone in this group would now bank on the other to be by his side always. I'm extremely proud to have such friends and would love to have you on this list as well. Why don't you join us for the next otr? I will personally call and invite you. You have years of experience on DIY and stuff which we all can learn and gain knowledge. What say? And khana i will arrange... superb misal at a small corner shop hidden away from tourists in lonavala. Deal?

Infact the only reason to post such threads on teambhp is that we all learn. Learning is a continuous process and there is no limit to learning. Even our instructors learnt something from us students. This thread showed team building in a fun atmosphere, all learned not to snatch, we got wonderful inputs from veterans like Arka and yourself. All in all a wonderful learning experience for all the readers.

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Well democracy....?? we all know the state of affairs of this democratic nation, its hopeless.

Hahahahahaa... I would love to have a Modi up to head our nation but discussing politics is not allowed on teambhp so let's leave it at that.

Having said that, we must try to shed our hubristic attitude and just try to make people learn from our mistakes and take things in the right spirit instead of trying to put someone down. I mean if we can't have a pleasant atmosphere without taunts and sarcasm in such a small teambhp community, there's no point talking about the whole country na now Rajubhai? This statement is a general statement, not hinted at you or anyone personally.
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Old 4th September 2013, 13:38   #38
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Default Re: a lil bit of DIY

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post

wrt to the winches, an electric wire 6-8mm can be used to actuate the solenoids, in case of emergency.
Dear Arka,

Sorry i missed your reply.

I'm really interested in knowing how to do this. Could you please elaborate?

With diagrams is asking for too much but if possible do post.
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Old 4th September 2013, 14:11   #39
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Default Re: a lil bit of DIY

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Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Dear Arka,

Sorry i missed your reply.

I'm really interested in knowing how to do this. Could you please elaborate?

With diagrams is asking for too much but if possible do post.
The remote - is just a switch, which I guess can be recreated using wires, where you plug the remote to.
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Old 4th September 2013, 17:11   #40
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Default Re: a lil bit of DIY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Sorry i missed your reply.

I'm really interested in knowing how to do this. Could you please elaborate?

With diagrams is asking for too much but if possible do post.
Hi Tejas,

I have replied in the Winch Maintenance Thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...ml#post3227993 (Article: Winch Maintenance)

Regards,

Arka

PS - Will try and make a pictorial and Diagram in sometime
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Old 4th September 2013, 19:51   #41
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Default Re: The Circle of Recoveries OTR

@ Tejas, going by the pictures, I am assuming that none of the jeeps here have selectable differential locks, correct me if wrong, but will that not make all the difference, something I want to understand is, since aftermarket enhancements, is it a relatively easy add-on or are there major mods needed?
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Old 5th September 2013, 09:01   #42
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Default Re: a lil bit of DIY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post

It's a slow learning process and one can't expect to teach everything in a day nor can't expect someone to retain everything in a day.
True the subject is too vast.

Quote:
It was told the snatching does take a toll and do it at your own risk. These are grown up mature people and not children. They made an informed decision and i respect them and i made sure no one got hurt.
I think after few years in offroading, now you need to take a stand, wrong things are wrong & right are right.

People not only endanger & trouble themselves but others too . Wrong procedures are harmful for the group as a whole. BTW not raising the point of group discipline yet

Quote:
===Thus, the slow and steady approach. We all had fun during the OTR, bonded as a group which is the most fundamental thing... to work as a team. Chapter 1 cleared. Communication was perfect and people got out safe. Slow and steady we will get them there.
I think you & your partners have had much time together, need to move on. I am atleast watching you for three & half years, directly or through net.

Quote:
Why don't you join us for the next otr? I will personally call and invite you.
Thanks for the invite I shall come.


Quote:
You have years of experience on DIY and stuff which we all can learn and gain knowledge.
To be frank, there will be very few people who will last with me & my undemocratic way of teaching. Oh come on I learnt this way, my mech even used to shout at me & call me a "Jyada Shana" (a learned fool) once a while.

Are people ready for that ?? Ok even they are excused for calling me Jyada Shana in the class

Apart from Jokes, people come to OTR to have fun, not for learning bush craft.

Quote:
What say? And khana i will arrange... superb misal at a small corner shop hidden away from tourists in lonavala. Deal?
Hahaha, dont be surprised if you find a mobile offroad kitchen, just waiting for you at the spot, what say ??

Quote:
Infact the only reason to post such threads on teambhp is that we all learn. Learning is a continuous process and there is no limit to learning. Even our instructors learnt something from us students. This thread showed team building in a fun atmosphere, all learned not to snatch, we got wonderful inputs from veterans like Arka and yourself. All in all a wonderful learning experience for all the readers.
I like your line of thinking



Quote:
Having said that, we must try to shed our hubristic attitude and just try to make people learn from our mistakes and take things in the right spirit instead of trying to put someone down. I mean if we can't have a pleasant atmosphere without taunts and sarcasm in such a small teambhp community
Time for a frank talk , can you handle this ??

# Do you expect only " Like , Wah wah , Super ,Great " etc kind of comments on this thread ??

# When you put something on a notice board, you need to digest criticism also

# Is presenting a fact of " Lack of recovery & other gear " is sarcasm ??


Frank Talk 2

# Agree that its a slow learning process etc, but when people are going to learn from the mistakes ? There seems to be no sign of it .

For example see this March 7 , 2011 . Any lessons learnt ? or we are repeating same things again ?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...-tungarli.html (Extreme Offroaders - off-road to breakdown hell (tungarli))

# People dont seem to have any difference between going to OTR & a movie, they seem to travel light. ( its a general comment, dont take it personally)



Frank Talk 3

You have invited me, alright, thanks. But Sir please look at the basic difference between our beliefs & methods of working

# My Jeep is my primary mode of transport, its not my second car . The choice is always between the LR or the Jeep.

I cant afford to neglect or break it for the sake of ' Fun " its been going on like this for past 24 yrs.

# Concept of a night stay for me is basically a quiet one, just listining to the sounds of the Jungle , be it a tent or a cave or inside a vehicle, No partying

# For me carrying equipment is mandatory inclusive of repairs. (along with recovery)

# Its a learning session for me, every time I do such trips

# Care of vehicle & coming back one piece is a priority, I cant afford breakages. See its not a cost factor alone, it consumes time & demands hard work in a DIY garage.

# I prefer small groups, 4 vehicles max with not more than eight people.

# Democracy in a group for me means = Thinking Alike, the Right way

# No ladies please, one can Walk N Talk much freely without them, remember the Jyada Sahna ??

## Call it " Holier than Thou " I ... Just love it .

Sudarshan

Last edited by Sudarshan : 5th September 2013 at 09:09.
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Old 5th September 2013, 09:08   #43
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Default Re: The Circle of Recoveries OTR

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_pphilip View Post
@ Tejas, going by the pictures, I am assuming that none of the jeeps here have selectable differential locks, correct me if wrong, but will that not make all the difference, something I want to understand is, since aftermarket enhancements, is it a relatively easy add-on or are there major mods needed?
Yup, no dif locks. In this terrain the diff locks wouldn't have helped much since all wheels were loosing traction. The thar had a rear dif lock but wasn't of much use. I don't follow the last part of your question. You are asking about aftermarket mods in general or in this case?


EDIT:

Just saw your reply Sudarshan.

You are entitled to your opinion and fair enough. I shall call you for the next OTR and we could talk in person.

I said the sarcasm statement was in general.

PS: I wasn't there for the Tungarli OTR, so won't comment.

Everyone has their definition of fun. Once you try out our concept and one day i'll try out yours. What say rajubhai?

PPS: A little humour for the morning: About the traveling light bit: i wish i could travel light instead of dragging my 106kgs around!

Last edited by Tejas@perioimpl : 5th September 2013 at 09:19.
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Old 5th September 2013, 09:44   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
PPS: A little humour for the morning: About the traveling light bit: i wish i could travel light instead of dragging my 106kgs around!


Zees , 106 is bad if you are nearing 40 --- that Jeep is certainly overweight for the build , you may break a swing arm if you fell

Sudarshan

P S thanks for taking it all in a lighter spirit (oh wrong word here ) * Edit; Smilie removed
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Old 5th September 2013, 21:10   #45
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Default Re: The Circle of Recoveries OTR



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post

I'm really interested in knowing how to do this. Could you please elaborate?
Tejas,
It can simply shortened to make it work. What you have is three metal pins and switch is used to connect them an back and front movement. All you need is metal key or something of that sort which can short two pins based on your requirement of pulling or releasing winch.
I know its a pure JUGAAD (remember, how in old days people used to short two terminals of starter to get truck, tractor and jeep started ?), but we have done this so many times with Ramsey winch..........
Arka, Sudarshan ji can probably comment.

Shubhendra
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