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Old 20th June 2007, 12:33   #76
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There is no qualitative difference to be expected when a byte is read off the CD, i.e. a 10010110 will be read as 10010110 from the CD - if it is read as 10010111 it is an ERROR, easily detected whether you have stored text or a byte in the Layer 3 chain. So CD quality wouldn't affect MP3 files, right? Provided the tracks were ripped with a decent bit rate, a collection of MP3 songs picked up from the pavement sellers might sound better than the original CD tracks? [No, I am not in favour of piracy]

Audio CDs would treat it differently, yes, since the byte value represents an impulse to be generated by DAC down the line, and all byte values chalta hai for the DAC.

The only difference one can visualize is the polymer used to make the CD itself, not the color on the obverse side of the CD. What appears as transparent to the naked eye would behave very differently to the laser. And, of course, the "reflectability" of the deposited reflector. Well, quite likely that is the difference between the source material quality used by Indian (or India-bound) labels. "Pilashteek to pilashteek hi hota hai na baba"!

Last edited by DerAlte : 20th June 2007 at 12:35.
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Old 20th June 2007, 12:42   #77
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
There is no qualitative difference to be expected when a byte is read off the CD, i.e. a 10010110 will be read as 10010110 from the CD - if it is read as 10010111 it is an ERROR, easily detected whether you have stored text or a byte in the Layer 3 chain. So CD quality wouldn't affect MP3 files, right? Provided the tracks were ripped with a decent bit rate, a collection of MP3 songs picked up from the pavement sellers might sound better than the original CD tracks? [No, I am not in favour of piracy]
while the CD is read not the complete info is transmitted...as nothing is perfect in this world....some of the information is lost while the lens is reading the information....

Sir do you know some thing about PCM (pluse code modulation) it is the working of DAC and ADC and some information is lost there also....

Pulse-code modulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Red Book (audio CD standard) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Compact Disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by low_bass_makker : 20th June 2007 at 12:55.
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Old 20th June 2007, 13:00   #78
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
My point isn;t the CBR or VBR. Dude there is a massive difference between an original audio CD and a 128KBps MP3. Massive. You don't need to be an audiophile or engineer to hear that difference. And neither do you need great equipment, you could hear the difference even on Xplod speakers!

Just make sure your Audio CD is not made from reconverting that 128KBps file lol
achha? ok I'll try again. it was an original cd. maybe its something to do with my hearing ability. my ears are a little less sensitive because of the loud music i had been hearing for the last 1o-12 years. im not kidding here. :-)

cheers
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post

You know Gunbir, I've used black CD's too, but purely for the novelty factor. Around 5-7 years ago, samsung released some fully coloured CD's. WHile the box has an assortment (Bright red, bright gree, blue and so on) there were always some jet black CD's in the box. Or if you bough singles, I'd prefer the Jet Black. Most people would look at it disbelievingly.
I wasn't too surprised becase my play station CDs used to come in the all black.
But an interesting read, nonetheless.
hi sam,

i remember my play station would only play black cds. my bro bought it from australia it wasnt chipped. then these samsung cds came and i remember there was a store who would sell the black cds to me for a premium lol.


now sam bhia, navinji. gunman, please suggest what format and bitrate to use when ripping. file size is not an issue.

cheers
clip

Last edited by tsk1979 : 20th June 2007 at 16:30.
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Old 20th June 2007, 14:02   #79
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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
... Someone mentioned the difference between 320kbps mp3 and lossless. Well thats blatantly obvious... even without hifi. Even a cheap grado SR60/sennheiser HD485 headphone is enough to distinguish between them..
In my experience, most mp3s encoded with LAME in a -V0 --vbr-new or -b 320 setting is indistinguishable from an Audio CD/lossless track. I have tried this out with ABX testing on some good quality AV equipments. But, yes this may depend upon type of music and complexity.
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Old 20th June 2007, 14:04   #80
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Originally Posted by Ajaybiz View Post
know i am going to listen some assorted MP3s and FM and dont want the low bass n all just a pure and clear crisp music with bit of low range.
I ended up with this head unit Pioneer Electronics - Sound. Vision. Soul
and wants JBL front and rear sets, kindly suggest some good model even if its not available in india.
PM Sam for JBL. He reprsents JBL and will know the current prices and models better than most.
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Old 20th June 2007, 14:56   #81
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Thanks Navin, appriciate your help.
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Old 20th June 2007, 15:06   #82
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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
..one can make out the difference between 320kbps and lossless..
and what about between lossless and original CD. I have not tried this on the same system.
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Old 20th June 2007, 15:13   #83
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and what about between lossless and original CD. I have not tried this on the same system.
that will be quite to judge....
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Old 20th June 2007, 15:22   #84
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Yes, I agree fully that a copy on the hard disk is much more listenable than from the CD.
I have never tried this. I will check it out. I am building a Media Center PC for my home stereo (2 channel) and this will help me out immensely. I have 500GB array. I think I can buy one more from UK and convert most of my CDs to lossless and keep them in the HDD. It's more convenient as well.

Would you have any idea about good quality analog sound cards? My NAD 352 does not have optical input. This one is mainly for 2 channel only.

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Yes, atleast someone agrees that good MP3 is distinguishable from lossless (leave alone the original CD).
Is it for any recording? I am asking because I have never been able to distinguish the difference between high bitrate AAC and CDA for any Indian music. But I have been able to notice the differences on all other music. I always thought the Indian recordings were to blame. Looks like I need to pull my head from the sand.
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Old 20th June 2007, 15:26   #85
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Originally Posted by d.kiran View Post
I have never tried this. I will check it out. I am building a Media Center PC.
No no no. this is what what i meant. this was on CD players that have inegrated hard disks in them like the Cambridge 640H or Arcam MS250.

Last edited by navin : 20th June 2007 at 15:39.
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Old 20th June 2007, 15:35   #86
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Ah.. But the same theory should hold isnt it? I mean if CD player have an integrated hard disk and they store the music on the hard disk to reduce the vibration/jitter from intruding, then shouldn't the same thing happen on the PC?

I mean playing a CD on a PC versus playing a file copied using EAC on the same hard disk in the same PC? Or do you need higher end components to find out the difference. Electronic high frequency noise is a major factor in Media Center PCs :-(.
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Old 20th June 2007, 15:40   #87
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Originally Posted by d.kiran View Post
Ah.. But the same theory should hold isnt it? I mean if CD player have an integrated hard disk and they store the music on the hard disk to reduce the vibration/jitter from intruding, then shouldn't the same thing happen on the PC?
True only I am not sure if the PCs DAC is equiped to resolve these differences. I have not tried it so I dont know. This is just a presumption.
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Old 20th June 2007, 15:59   #88
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Oh Yes. Some of the high end sound cards (X-Fi, Auzentech) do have pretty good quality DACs and ADCs that should theoretically be able to resolve the differences.

I am contemplating buying a Sony CD changer here. But if someone has noticed a difference between playing CDs off a hard drive and theoretically that applies to PC, I think I would be better off buying a 2TB RAID array at the same price :-). Though there are other differences. The cost/benefit analysis would skew this toward the hard drive right now.

In the end it's all about experimenting and I am just starting off in the high end audio world and I will try this and see how it works out. God I cant wait to come back to India :-) monsoon and Chennai roads not withstanding.
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Old 20th June 2007, 19:24   #89
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True only I am not sure if the PCs DAC is equiped to resolve these differences. I have not tried it so I dont know. This is just a presumption.
I use my PC as a transport. I have an X-Fi sound card outputting data resampled to 24/96 to an external DAC (Citypulse DA7.2x) connected over toslink. Its pretty easy to distinguish between stuff ripped onto hard drive by multipass rippers like EAC and reading it off directly from the CD.
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Old 20th June 2007, 19:46   #90
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
Sir do you know some thing about PCM (pluse code modulation) it is the working of DAC and ADC and some information is lost there also....
I thought I knew (since I had done some work with PCM in C&I in the previous century) but let me quite humbly learn again! Thanks for the clues, @LBM.
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