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Old 29th July 2015, 09:05   #1
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Default Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

Audi has introduced "Dynamic Badging" a terms that categorises cars by the actual performance on tap rather than mere cubic capacity.

This is because the same engine, say their 2.0 TDI had been tuned to give 110, 140, 177, Bhp etc along with differing torque figures. In addition, there are other factors such as power to weight ratio that would give different performance figures for the same engine.

So, in order to make the figures have a bearing to the actual performance available to the driver, Audi has introduced Dynamic Badging.

The calculation behind these new badges differ on level of G-force created under acceleration. Therefore, a bigger engine will accelerate hard creating more downforce, which implies the faster Audis get higher badges.

Dynamic Badging is arrived at after converting 100 kilometers per hour to meters per second, and dividing that number by the car’s 0-100 time, which is then divided again by g, or 9.81 meters per second squared ― the result of which would be a decimal number between zero and one.

Then on the assumption that 1g is equal to 100, the result is rounded up or down to the nearest multiple of 5, which is the number that finally gets used as the Dynamic Badge.

Let's take an example of the A4 2.0TDI 177 Bhp which had an earlier badge of 2.0 TDI (that was used for the 140 also)

Here's how its Dynamic Badge is arrived at:

It has a 0-100 acceleration time of 8.2 seconds.

Newton’s second law of physics, which is v=u+at is applied where "a" is acceleration "v" is the final velocity and "u" is the initial velocity and "t" is the time consumed.

Here, t= 8.2 seconds, u=0 km/hr and v=100km/hr= 27.78 m/s
So, 27.78= 0 + ax8.2
a= 3.38 x100/9.81 = 34.53 which is rounded off to 35.
So its gets the Dynamic Badge 35 TDI.

It is most likely that other manufacturers that use engines in differing states of tune would would also find this method useful and move to this method of badging.
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Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 29th July 2015 at 09:12.
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Old 29th July 2015, 09:27   #2
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

I thought I read earlier that this badging correlated to the torque the engine made, 35TDi made 350nm torque?

Regardless, this badging is very confusing on a lay man. I had a friend assume that the A3 has a 3.5L engine as it he saw a 35TDI badge on it.
Audi is trying to hard to go against the tide wherein all its rivals are sticking with the badging based on CC. I don't get where they are coming from, in an era of turbo charging CC < Torque. However, it needs to be communicated in a better way, this sort of complicating calculation is foolish on their part.
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Old 29th July 2015, 09:31   #3
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

Only Germans can put so much science and math into a name

However, once you know the series, it seems pretty linear. So now a 40TFSI owner will have more bragging rights than a 35TDI owner even if the petrol car as smaller engine and lower price. Let's see if that affects the buying decision of badge conscious junta.
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Old 29th July 2015, 09:41   #4
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

There is a flip side to this too. A 30 TFSI owner, would just buy the 50 TFSI badge along with some K&N decals to attract attention

This is similar to Innova "E" taxis, adding those mock wood trims and just sticking the "V" badge. Seriously - i dont understand how those wooden stickers can match ABS and Airbags of the "V" Variant. (the Qualis tye steering wheel, gave it away, that it was an "E" variant).
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Old 29th July 2015, 10:31   #5
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

Reading this post, I felt like Newton myself.

This sort of badging would be very difficult for the common man to comprehend.
It is better to stick to the cc and not go into complex Maths to derive a badge denomination!!
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Old 29th July 2015, 10:31   #6
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

Complicated calculations, and quite stupid in my opinion. But good marketing no doubt. The person driving an A4 would prefer 35tdi than 2.0tdi. The Q5 2.0tdi suddenly becomes 30tdi. Infact I was wondering in the beginning how Q5 3.0tdi's were suddenly selling like hot cakes.

Its just a way of making people perceive the car to be more powerful. And this is only in India and China if I'm not mistaken. Not in Europe or anywhere else.

But thanks for providing us the formula for it, have been wondering what exactly it was since I started seeing the badges.
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Old 29th July 2015, 10:53   #7
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

Also, this applies only to the non S & RS vehicles, so they can appear to look like they're packing more under the hood.

Can you imagine an RS5 with this badging logic ?!!

RS 5 is a 4.2 V8 FSI with 450hp and 4.2 seconds to 100kph (manufacture specs)


v = u+at

100kph = 0 + a X 4.2

27.78m/s = 0 + a X 4.2

a = 6.61 X 100 ÷ 9.81

a = 67.3

so the RS 5 would read 70 FSI ??
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Last edited by Ash_vtec : 29th July 2015 at 10:59.
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Old 29th July 2015, 11:12   #8
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

I was perplexed by the formula and also the concept. As if we did not have enough to perceive already, like zero to hundred, engine CC, torque in NM and in Foot Pounds, power to weight ratio, etc.

I tried to grapple with the formula, but could not understand why the result of the calculations is being multiplied by 100 and then divided by 9.81. And I ain't no Newton!

Using the formula, I could figure out that my Fiesta 1.6 as a Dynamic rating of 25 (it takes 11.74 seconds to 100 kmph).
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Old 29th July 2015, 11:42   #9
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

I think this is the best way to actually label the "sportiness" of a car.
ACCELERATION is the most obvious thing that a human body and mind experiences and measures.

Not power, not torque, not mass of the vehicles, and definitely not the CC.
In fact I don't even understand why a buyer should even care about the CC of the engine, what is he going to do with it?

Does he also care about the brake system hydraulic pressure and the master and slave piston areas?
No, all he cares about is how fast and effective the brakes.

The same thing is with acceleration.
Engine of X cubic capacity, makes Y Newton-meter of torque, at Z RPM, thus making XYZ horse-power with a weight of ABC kilogram. What does that translate to? Nothing in terms of what human body experiences.

In my opinion, the current labeling terminology (based on engine capacity or say torque figure or bhp) is a marketing gimmick designed to fool the customers.

The G figures will at least set an immediate measurment for comparing that "getting pushed into the seat" feeling that he will get from different cars.

Attaboy AUDI!

Last edited by alpha1 : 29th July 2015 at 11:51.
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Old 29th July 2015, 11:48   #10
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

Based on equation in OP, basically the number 35 TFSI suggests that your car can accelerate at an avg of 35% of g (which is acceleration due to gravity along vertical axis). In case one is not conversant with concept of g, you can think of it as acceleration (= rate of change of speed) of a body in free fall from top of a cliff towards the ground, ignoring air resistance. So higher the number associated more g-forces the driver will experience.

To put numbers in context, if a car could accelerate at g, then it would take 2.83 s to hit 0-100 km/hr.

I think the badging is pretty smart for consumers comparing the cars from performance point of view. In fact it would be awesome for this badging to become standard across segments/car companies so that performance numbers are normalized. Because then one can easily compare performance of a 320d with an A4 with a C250!

For someone concerned with just badge value/comfort, badging will be confusing, assuming they care about those numbers in the first place.

Last edited by pratika : 29th July 2015 at 11:53. Reason: added avg
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Old 29th July 2015, 12:06   #11
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

Thanks for this. I was at the audi showroom and the sales consultant was trying to explain but she could not explain the complete logic. I was wondering why the Q7 35TDI and the A3 35TDI had same badge but totally different engines
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Old 29th July 2015, 12:37   #12
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Thanks for this. I was at the audi showroom and the sales consultant was trying to explain but she could not explain the complete logic. I was wondering why the Q7 35TDI and the A3 35TDI had same badge but totally different engines
You're welcome mate.

Yes, it's a bit difficult for the usual sales guy to understand and even more difficult to incorporate into his pitch.

By the look of it, once this trend catches on, and it will, the next gen would look at folks quoting cc numbers as museum pieces.

So, just thought it would be good to put this down so that folks get it.

The A8 W12 is 65TFSI. Although some claim a 0-100 time of 4.1 which would make it 70 TFSI.
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Old 29th July 2015, 14:49   #13
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

Once one reads through this calculation, it actually makes very good sense. A 45 will always indicate a faster car than a 35 irrespective of the Body, the Engine, the gearbox or the state of tune!

What will the Veyron Be?
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Old 29th July 2015, 15:42   #14
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

The logic is sound in terms of performance factor.


However I also feel Audi has primarily done this because of engine sharing across so many platforms and the only way to distinguish them is through how they perform in various guises.


The 2 litre TDi in various states of tune powers the

A3 - 141hp - 35 TDi
A4 - 174hp - 35 TDi
Q3 - 174hp - 35 TDi
Q5 - 174 hp - 30 TDi
A6 - 174 hp - 35 TDi

The Q3 Manual is powered by the 138 hp tune of the same motor and is named 30 TDi. If it wasn't for this system this entire range would be badged 2.0 TDi

Not to mention it powers the cousins like Octavia/Laura/Jetta/Yeti/Passat/Superb.

Not very different from BMW where the 2 litre diesel powers the 1,3,5,x1,x3 and now maybe the new x5 as well. The 1 series has been labelled a 118d to show its running a lower tune, but is still a 2 litre, which is counter intuitive to the BMW logic of old where the last two numbers denoted the CC of the motor. The rest of the range remains constant "20d" with the 181 hp & 380 odd Nm. If this system were applied there, we'd get some clarity on each cars performance.


This can get confusing though, when a V6 motor gets the same rating as a puny 4 cylinder like Ajmat mentioned !!

Last edited by Ash_vtec : 29th July 2015 at 15:57. Reason: info correction.
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Old 29th July 2015, 17:22   #15
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Default re: Audi's "Dynamic Badging" - Based on performance, rather than displacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash_vtec View Post
This can get confusing though, when a V6 motor gets the same rating as a puny 4 cylinder like Ajmat mentioned !!
But then what value does a large V6 offer over puny 4 cylinder if both produce the same performance (and thus end up with the same badge).

For those who want to just know for knowledge sake, Audi will not hide the CC/BHP/Torque/RPM figures in their documents. Will they?
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