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Old 3rd February 2010, 02:30   #61
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These guys are really stable at work!


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Old 3rd February 2010, 08:52   #62
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Entrepreneurship is the only stable employment.
How well you succeed depends on the execution mechanism.
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Old 26th May 2010, 12:39   #63
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Default I need help - desperate.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjgm View Post
being a dentist has a lot of potential in the cash department, even Navin will agree !

As Scooby05 said, the struggle period is less, the only investment is the donation if your exam results are poor, and a clinic space.

Don't get into the surgery part of it but cosmetic dentistry, good money.

Rest is struggle for three to five years and you are set. Anyways the Indian diet is rough on the teeth, more patients for you.
Well, that is the discussion going in our house from morning to evening - see my details and dilemma below.

And, as my friend remarked, 'every human being has 32 teeth - so there are plenty available for pulling out'

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
A colleauge came back from his home town in Orrisa and showed me an article which had listed out the most preferred jobs for a boy to be an "eligible bachelor" in today's marriage market. The list is as under:
1. IAS Officer. Darn...!!!Why didnt I continue my preparation?
2. Govt Doctor
3. Defense Personnel.
4. Other Govt employees
5. Private Doctors.
6. Bank Employees
7........
8..........
9.........
Where is IT? Nowhere..
Does a marriage ad define where you stand in the society? I am somewhere in your list, and didn't make much out of it!! BTW, my marriage was fixed through a paper ad, too. I think and hope not...

Let me present my dilemma - and I want real good feed-back

My daughter has scored the following marks in her 12th Std CBSE -
Physics 94
Chemistry 95
Biology 98

She got through in the 1st round of AIPMT, but in the second round has fallen behind.

So, our hopes of a merit (cheap) seat is dashed (being FC doesn't give one many options)

Luckily, she is near the top in merit list in a leading university in South (there are plenty of alumni from that university here!)

Problem is MBBS means an outlay of about Rs. 40 lakhs + future study expenses. And BDS means an outlay of about Rs. 20 lakhs + future study expenses. BE is not being considered, may be because she thinks in the same lines as our friend, devnath :-). I can't afford MBBS, and for BDS a bank loan is the way out...

Dilemma is - is it worth pursuing BDS for five years? (BE in 4 years, a job thereafter may be a foreign trip and further studies DO NOT tempt her at all!)

Secondly, having the Damocles sword of the bank loan above her head when she passes out is not a thought I relish.
Believe me, I know quite a lot about loans and finance....

And what would be the likely expenses during the study? Frankly, I have no clue. I am driving everyone crazy with my questions and doubts - and there are only bits and pieces of info available on the net. Even the classes she attended doesn't have a good student counsellor.


Just now it struck me - I was searching for ghee when I had butter in my hand

Searched - and found this thread! PERFECT! (Kudos to all t-bhpians for thinking of any and every-thing in whole universe....) So go ahead folks - let the bricks and bats follow!

Last edited by vrprabhu : 26th May 2010 at 12:41.
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Old 26th May 2010, 14:21   #64
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Default Try next year.

Though I might be too young to answer this question, I would suggest letting her try for one more year by probably studying harder/taking up a few more coaching classes. I feel this should help as she wants to pursue a career in medicine.

Losing a year is better than ending with a 20 lac rupee loan when you are 18 years old.
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Old 26th May 2010, 14:28   #65
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Default I don't think age matters...

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Though I might be too young to answer this question, I would suggest letting her try for one more year by probably studying harder/taking up a few more coaching classes. I feel this should help as she wants to pursue a career in medicine.

Losing a year is better than ending with a 20 lac rupee loan when you are 18 years old.
Hey, when people say something on things which they feel sincerely, I don't think age matters....

Yes, this was the first thing which my wife put forth. My daughter was not very enthusiastic. My point was - do marks really matter? In fact, I put her into coaching classes only so that she becomes how aware how others students like here are (she studies in Kendriya Vidyalaya, and the group is pretty homogeneous).

If you narrowly miss, then there is a point in trying again. But there is no guarantee she will perform the same way next year. And goodness knows how competitive next year will be....

Finally, career in medicine. What you choose after 12th shapes your destiny - atleast for many of us. So instead of doing something just for the sake of livelihood, if you do something you like, enjoy and get involved, it will be a rewarding life - won't it? So I have asked her to contemplate - we are not forcing her towards any specific line; and, I will support her entirely, whatever be her option!

Last edited by vrprabhu : 26th May 2010 at 14:29.
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Old 26th May 2010, 14:49   #66
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The only feedback that i have is that Medicine is a very demanding job which doesn't pay well in initial 10 years of your career. It requires lots of studying even after your undergrad degrees for PG, DM etc. In my case i had qualified for the medicine free seat but i went for engineering since I was looking at medicine just as a lucrative career option and from that prespective engineering followed by MBA seemed to be the better option.
Even though i have not gone for MBA yet, i never had reason to regret giving medicine the miss.

Get into medicine only if you really want to be a doc
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Old 26th May 2010, 14:58   #67
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Originally Posted by vishnurp99 View Post
The only feedback that i have is that Medicine is a very demanding job which doesn't pay well in initial 10 years of your career. It requires lots of studying even after your undergrad degrees for PG, DM etc. In my case i had qualified for the medicine free seat but i went for engineering since I was looking at medicine just as a lucrative career option and from that prespective engineering followed by MBA seemed to be the better option.
Even though i have not gone for MBA yet, i never had reason to regret giving medicine the miss.
Get into medicine only if you really want to be a doc
That required guts!

No, as I said before, it is not the money or career which I have in mind.

Rather, I would like my daughter to pursue something which she'll enjoy doing for the rest of her life - money comes only thereafter....
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Old 26th May 2010, 15:15   #68
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anything you are good at. But remember, while u r good at something, dont do it for free
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Old 26th May 2010, 18:45   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vrprabhu View Post
My daughter has scored the following marks in her 12th Std CBSE -
Physics 94
Chemistry 95
Biology 98

She got through in the 1st round of AIPMT, but in the second round has fallen behind.

So, our hopes of a merit (cheap) seat is dashed (being FC doesn't give one many options)

Luckily, she is near the top in merit list in a leading university in South (there are plenty of alumni from that university here!)

Problem is MBBS means an outlay of about Rs. 40 lakhs + future study expenses. And BDS means an outlay of about Rs. 20 lakhs + future study expenses. BE is not being considered, may be because she thinks in the same lines as our friend, devnath :-). I can't afford MBBS, and for BDS a bank loan is the way out...

Dilemma is - is it worth pursuing BDS for five years? (BE in 4 years, a job thereafter may be a foreign trip and further studies DO NOT tempt her at all!)

Secondly, having the Damocles sword of the bank loan above her head when she passes out is not a thought I relish. Believe me, I know quite a lot about loans and finance....

And what would be the likely expenses during the study? Frankly, I have no clue. I am driving everyone crazy with my questions and doubts - and there are only bits and pieces of info available on the net. Even the classes she attended doesn't have a good student counsellor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrprabhu View Post
Finally, career in medicine. What you choose after 12th shapes your destiny - atleast for many of us. So instead of doing something just for the sake of livelihood, if you do something you like, enjoy and get involved, it will be a rewarding life - won't it? So I have asked her to contemplate - we are not forcing her towards any specific line; and, I will support her entirely, whatever be her option!
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrprabhu View Post
No, as I said before, it is not the money or career which I have in mind.

Rather, I would like my daughter to pursue something which she'll enjoy doing for the rest of her life - money comes only thereafter....

Hi Prabhu mam,

i see that you are a doting father, i think this dilema is faced by all fathers, i am likely to face similar one may be in another 9 years time.

Let me share my perspective on this

1. Edcuating the daughter is extreemly important. There is a saying women folks hold up half the sky, if they were not there, then half of the sky would have fallen on our heads.

2. In these days of compettitive world, Higher/Nicher the education, better is the future potential to stay relevent, to be more prodcutive as well as to make progress in all walks of life. This is more true for the daughters as better educated the daughters, better is the way they can manage their future generation.

3. I am a product of education loan, Personally i belive it brings a sense of responsibility in each student and helps to keep the person grounded all the time. But only thing you need to ensure that it does not pressurize your daughter. She should perceive it to be a burden on you and her.
It does not matter whether it is 20L or 40L. Age is on her side, repayment is easier in the long term.

4. My niece (cousin sister's daughter) is a dentist, she passed out last year. Setting up a practice and establishing oneself is cruicial for a dentist. It requires more investment as well. one should be mentally prepared for it, espcially if one is financing the education through loan.
one more loan after completing the education needs to be considered.
Chances of higher education are lesser in the field of dentist compared to other medicine/surgery (Again this is my personal opinion), there might be options like plastic surgery, face re-construction etc.

5. Doing MBBS is not enough these days. specialization, higher education, super speciality etc are important. Medicine is a fast evolving field. Establishing oneself is again difficult, but once established, then sky is the limit. one needs to be mentally prepared for at least 8-10 years of education, internship, specialization etc. plus minimum 3-5 years for making a good name in the field of medicine.

6. Costs of the education can be easily calculated. It includes Fees, Books, Stay, Food, other expenses, travel, other equipments, accessories, financing costs etc, one can easily find it out from the prospectus + cost of living calculations. Talking to few doctors would help. I can talk from 30000 ft level, but not in specifics details.

If you want to speak to few doctors (including the ones who are practicing abroad) then please PM me, i will provide the contact details you can speak to them over phone.

Last edited by StarVegabond : 26th May 2010 at 18:49.
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Old 26th May 2010, 18:50   #70
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Law, Medicine, hotel (restaurant food industry) are evergreen. They never stop to mint come what season or recession.
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Old 26th May 2010, 19:27   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vrprabhu View Post
That required guts!

No, as I said before, it is not the money or career which I have in mind.

Rather, I would like my daughter to pursue something which she'll enjoy doing for the rest of her life - money comes only thereafter....
frankly speaking, money will come into the picture sooner or later. To be succesful, she needs to know what she is good at,on the other hand, to be happy, she needs to know what she likes doing.

If she likes technology, machines, maths, science, she should get into engg. If she likes health and fitness, is interested in treating people, she should get into medicine. I know many people who avoided medicine because they didn't like dealing with blood, puss, another bodily fluids and another human body in general. Not to mention human corpses almost everyday. Dealing with pain and suffering of others is stressful too.

But that's all about what she likes. Personally I would prefer my kids doing what they are good at, not what they like. and pursuing what they like in the time outside their work. This is good for a person, a family, or an economy in general.
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Old 26th May 2010, 20:49   #72
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Default A Course Called 'CA'

Why has nobody considered this course called 'CA'. It gives you a wonderful and stable career. This is the only course which can get you to the top of any organisation within a very very short span of time*. *Conditions Apply


Gone are those days when CA's were considered as mere number crunchers. In today's India Inc. they play a very crucial role in the board room.


The cost of the course is another point of attraction. You would hardly spend about 50K ` 100K for the entire course. Plus, the interns get paid anywhere between 3K ` 10K right from day 1 of your course.


All said, it is not to be forgotten that it requires tremendous hardwork, will power and utmost dedication to pass out of the course in the 1st shot.


A newly qualified CA can earn anything between 5.5L to 14L in the year 1 of his career. Intl' placements have gone on record paying 70L for a few 21+ year old chaps.


Isn't that lucrative?
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Old 26th May 2010, 21:17   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarVegabond View Post
i see that you are a doting father, i think this dilema is faced by all fathers, i am likely to face similar one may be in another 9 years time.

Let me share my perspective on this

3. Age is on her side, repayment is easier in the long term.

5. Doing MBBS is not enough these days. specialization, higher education, super speciality etc are important.

6. Talking to few doctors would help. I can talk from 30000 ft level, but not in specifics details.

If you want to speak to few doctors (including the ones who are practicing abroad) then please PM me, i will provide the contact details you can speak to them over phone.
Hi, SV. Well, best of luck - for your and your daughter's future.

Yes, I agree with what you have said. However, these also came to my mind -

3. Perfect - but I wouldn't want her to start her life / career with a burden around the neck. I, as a parent, feel that it is my responsibility to plan for my life as well as those of my children. If my father didn't pass on his responsibilities to me, why should I pass it on to my children?

5. Fully agree - and that is the whole point. If you are going to be doing something, why not it be something which you like? See vivek's post and reply below.

6. Thanks for the offer. I will take it up in one / two weeks. (Waiting for the counselling process to start)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
frankly speaking, money will come into the picture sooner or later. To be succesful, she needs to know what she is good at,on the other hand, to be happy, she needs to know what she likes doing.

Personally I would prefer my kids doing what they are good at, not what they like. and pursuing what they like in the time outside their work. This is good for a person, a family, or an economy in general.
Hi, Vivek. Small world, eh? We had a similar discussion in 'the life on edge'! Note that now Chennai is added and picture is changed...

Your first point - I fully agree with you. But at 17-18 years are children mature enough to understand what the outside world like?

Second point - agree again. But, who is to judge what they are good at.

Can I elaborate? I have this strong opinion - that any person who is good in Maths can learn things easily.

Unfortunately for me, during her 10th std. exams, I had to go on a tour. So the crucial days she felt lost - and lost a few marks (and the top rank in school).

It was almost the same story in 12th - but this time I told her, just go and do your best. Marks are not everything.

In these two years (between 10th and 12th) what had happened is, the guidance which she received from her excellent Maths teacher and me stopped (different teacher in 12th, and I found it tough to sit and study her chapters and help out); on the other hand, the Biology teacher was very good and she inspired my daughter to give her best.

The results are clear (she scored only 82 in Maths - which I haven't purposefully mentioned).

Going with this theory, I conclude that - you get a good teacher / guide / mentor, you'll do well. If you don't - you struggle. I think this holds true for life in general as well?

So without knowing the circumstances, how can we pass a judgement between what one likes and what one is good at?
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Old 26th May 2010, 21:48   #74
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Originally Posted by vrprabhu View Post
Your first point - I fully agree with you. But at 17-18 years are children mature enough to understand what the outside world like?
I may be wrong, but you may be underestimating the youngster. I think this is the age when one starts thinking beyond the parents view. Speaking from my own experience, If I had stayed with my parents' expectations, life would have been totally different.

Quote:

Second point - agree again. But, who is to judge what they are good at.

Can I elaborate? I have this strong opinion - that any person who is good in Maths can learn things easily.
not necessarily. communication, compassion, articulation, negotiation are a few things most math wizards lack. including yours truly, at least in initial years of adult life.

Quote:
Going with this theory, I conclude that - you get a good teacher / guide / mentor, you'll do well. If you don't - you struggle. I think this holds true for life in general as well?

So without knowing the circumstances, how can we pass a judgement between what one likes and what one is good at?
I know we have a system that can train us to do amazing things. But remember, same system is available to everybody else, unless you are really good at finding good teachers. But that still doesn't tell us what she is good at or what she likes. I know I am repeating the question again and not a solution. But one thing I can think of is look outside the curriculum. What literature she likes, what activity she is interested in, what are her favorite timepass websites.

Quote:
The results are clear (she scored only 82 in Maths - which I haven't purposefully mentioned).
think again, did you already make a decision for her based on that? even after knowing that it was a temporary glitch .

If it helps, I scored 55 in math (CBSE maths paper of 1994 was worst of it's times), and I still turned out to be a good engineer (or so I think).
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Old 27th May 2010, 11:52   #75
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Originally Posted by Warwithwheels View Post
Why has nobody considered this course called 'CA'. It gives you a wonderful and stable career. This is the only course which can get you to the top of any organisation within a very very short span of time*. *Conditions Apply

All said, it is not to be forgotten that it requires tremendous hardwork, will power and utmost dedication to pass out of the course in the 1st shot.
Thank you stars that you are sitting in Chennai now! Had you been in Pune I would have taken time off, to give you a piece of my mind! (No offense meant, please)

My young friend (I presume you must be in your late 20s or early 30s), from what I have seen in the last thirty years, the professional ethics in this line has been steadily deteriorating. I don't mean KPMG, AA, PWC or Satyam scandals... please don't get me wrong, things are pretty bad - and I can give a list of people from the same profession who will agree with me.

But career-wise and money-wise, yes you are right.

And, I am of the firm opinion that a CA is worth more than MBA...be it the Board-room or the negotiation table. I speak from first hand experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
I may be wrong, but you may be underestimating the youngster. I think this is the age when one starts thinking beyond the parents view. Speaking from my own experience, If I had stayed with my parents' expectations, life would have been totally different.

not necessarily. communication, compassion, articulation, negotiation are a few things most math wizards lack.

If it helps, I scored 55 in math (CBSE maths paper of 1994 was worst of it's times), and I still turned out to be a good engineer (or so I think).
Hmm... time for me to contemplate - what you say appears to be very logical.

May be I am biased - because could have been influenced by all the people around me who were really wizards in maths - they say I am in their club, but I firmly disagree....

Same story here - got only 59% in Maths in CBSE in 1977 - that was the year when CBSE switched from 11+1+3 to 10+2+3. Know, what I did? Jumped to state board (it was called PUC in those days) and got 87% in Maths straight! (The college I joined went on indefinite strike for three months during this period!!). It is another story that I went on to do different things - and didn't heed to the advice of my Maths teacher (while I was in college) and the Economics teacher (when I undertook ICWA)...

The ball is firmly in my daughters court - I want to be doubly sure that the decision is correct...

Last edited by vrprabhu : 27th May 2010 at 11:54.
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