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Old 25th October 2012, 18:15   #1
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Default Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

This is an issue that has been perturbing since a long time and sadly there have been no major developments that would calm my nerves in the past many years. It’s the issue of rear fog lamps.

With the winters setting in, I think rear fog lamps are perhaps one of the most needed equipment in any vehicle be it a car, truck, scooter etc.

Now my friends from south India may not share the same sentiment but at least in all of northern India like Jammu and Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh, Delhi, Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand etc., the dense fog, year after year, wreaks havoc especially on the motorists.

Be it early morning or night driving, fog is your worst enemy on the road in winters and every year several motorists, passengers and even pedestrians lose their lives because of this.

Now what irritates me is that why can’t the government formulate a stringent policy on cars having rear fog lamps at least, those sold in north India, the way it was made mandatory for four-wheeler drivers to wear seatbelts or helmets for two-wheeler drivers.

And why can’t car makers on their own do this? I know many cars have rear fog lamps but why can’t all of them have it?

Moreover, there is an idiotic trend that I have observed the top variant of a model will have a fog lamp but not its poorer base variant. For example: Maruti Suzuki Swift, Mahindra Xylo etc.

Now I wonder what the logic behind this is. Does a Swift Ldi/Lx has a Titanium boot covered with Kevlar??? Does it not deserve to be protected with a 100 rupees lamp because the owner won’t shell out that extra cash for some alloys or sunroof?

I personally drive a Honda City that was launched in 2009. In its tail lamp assembly there was an enclosure for a fog lamp but no bulb in it. Why? How much a pair of bulbs would cost you Honda? On top of it, the recent facelift has left the city without any rear fog lamps. Bravo Honda.

I am a Delhiite and I used to travel on the Delhi-Gurgaon and Delhi-Noida expressways often last year and trust me, driving in that thick fog was like hell.

On top of it several drivers would have their blinkers on—another idiotic trend which is a nuisance but people are comfortable with it. Surprisingly, even the Delhi Traffic Police in one of its advisories on facebook last winter had written: “Thick fog, drive with blinkers on.”

And so many people slammed them for their lack of knowledge and spreading wrong information. The advisory was removed from the site after a few hours.

Finally, I would end this post with another IDIOTIC TREND – that of car makers putting those silly LED daytime running lamps which frankly speaking are there only for cosmetic purposes.

DRL’s are required in Nordic countries where sometimes the afternoons are dark. But in an attempt to ape the west and just to look cool, these lights are becoming so popular that Philips has introduced DRL strips in the market.

I just read on Autocar India’s website that the i20’s top versions would be getting these LED daytime running lights. Common sense is so uncommon.

P.S. I got rear fog lamps retrofitted in my Honda City and Xing while the Swift Vdi already has one.

Last edited by GTO : 26th October 2012 at 16:37. Reason: Do NOT refer to cars by acronyms (e.g. ANHC). Full make & model name only please
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Old 25th October 2012, 19:27   #2
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Default Re: Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

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Originally Posted by captain.torque View Post
Now what irritates me is that why canít the government formulate a stringent policy on cars having rear fog lamps at least, those sold in north India, the way it was made mandatory for four-wheeler drivers to wear seatbelts or helmets for two-wheeler drivers.

And why canít car makers on their own do this? I know many cars have rear fog lamps but why canít all of them have it?
There are rear fog lamps in most of the cars sold in India but the problem is in some cars (like SX4) the rear fog lamp is placed in the right side tail lamp cluster in place of the reverse light. Seems stupid and can't understand the logic there. In the Swift/Ritz "VXi/VDi" the fog lamps are placed on the bumper at center. the light intensity is not that powerful but serves the purpose. LXi/LDi variants have dummies as you said!

Coming to your suggestion to car makers and Government to make rear fog lamps mandatory in North India at least is difficult buddy. I can understand the fog in northern parts but it would be difficult stocking different parts and maintaining inventories for north and south India would become tedious.

The problem here I see is the awareness people lack. Fog lamps either front or rear are to be used when visibility is low or FOG is present. but the real time scenario is the moment it is night time front and rear fogs are switched ON. The oncoming vehicle and the tailgating vehicle driver suffers.

Just my two cents!

Anurag.
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Old 25th October 2012, 21:41   #3
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Default Re: Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
The problem here I see is the awareness people lack. Fog lamps either front or rear are to be used when visibility is low or FOG is present. but the real time scenario is the moment it is night time front and rear fogs are switched ON. The oncoming vehicle and the tailgating vehicle driver suffers.
I wholeheartedly agree. In Bangalore with its (comparatively) light rain and fog-free winters, it irritates me to see the number of rear fogs being used.

Try following any car (in heavy traffic) which has its running lights (sidelights) + brake lights (in traffic) + High mounted stop light + one penetrating rear fog!

I guarantee that most people will have to look away from the sheer red intensity produced.
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Old 25th October 2012, 21:49   #4
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Default Re: Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

In a country filled with untrained and irresponsible drivers, rear fog lamps are more a bane than boon. On any cloudless evening, you'll notice that people unnecessarily keep the fog lamps on. People just want to show off that they have fog lamps (like sun roof, being discussed in another thread).

Unfortunately, no car comes with separate switch for rear fog lamps. Last week, I had to follow a slowly driven Rapid with an L board in the night, since the oncoming traffic prohibited any overtaking. It was raining heavily too. Rapid's fog lamps were on, and the bright red rear fog lamp, which is on the right side, was shining right into my eyes. It was very difficult to drive.
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Old 25th October 2012, 22:03   #5
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Default Re: Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

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Originally Posted by captain.torque View Post

Finally, I would end this post with another IDIOTIC TREND – that of car makers putting those silly LED daytime running lamps which frankly speaking are there only for cosmetic purposes.

DRL’s are required in Nordic countries where sometimes the afternoons are dark..
Let me update you on the European requirements on running with dipped lights on during the day; So not just little DLR, but dipped lights

Mandatory on all roads during day and night:

BosniŽ Herzegovina
Danmakr
Estland
Finland
Iceland
KroatiŽ
Litouwen
Letland
MacedoniŽ
Norway
Polen
Sweden
SloveniŽ
Slowakije
Tsjech R

Mandatory on all motorways and all rural road during day and night:
Italy
RoemeniŽ
Rusia
Hongary

Mandatory on all roads during day and night:
Spain

Advisable under all circumstances during day and night
Germany
France
Switzerland

Not sure of the above is completely accurate, if anything there might be more countries which require dipped lights during day time. It is not just a Nordic thing and it has nothing to do with sunsets being early!

The main reason for having more and more countries making it obligatory to have dipped lights on is that is has been proven to reduce accidents.

Even in daylight, during great visibility a car with its lights on, will get noticed better/earlier. In a number of these countries the lights come on automatically as soon as you start the engine, per default.

On the matter of fog lights; Regulation varies in Europe from country to country. The biggest problems is that people turn them on way to early. Most Europea countries stipulate that you're not allowed to carry front fog lights unless visibillity is less than 200 meters and rear fog lights the visibility needs t o be less than 50 meters!

So, you might wonder what they hell you're doing on the road under those conditions anyway. The biggest problem with turning on foglights to early is that you blind the cars coming towards you or behind you.

Jeroen

Last edited by Technocrat : 25th October 2012 at 23:25. Reason: fixed quotes :)
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Old 25th October 2012, 23:43   #6
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Default Re: Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

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Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post
Unfortunately, no car comes with separate switch for rear fog lamps.
As far as I remember (and it's been a while since I drove it), our Swift Zxi had a separate switch for the rear fogs. You had to switch them on separately and they will switch off as soon as you turn the headlights off. So the rear fogs are not on by mistake, they are on because someone turned them on!
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Old 26th October 2012, 01:00   #7
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Default Re: Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

India the usefulness of this feature is limited to just the northern states which has some fog during the winter months. However I think that overall the traffic speeds are way too low to warrant such feature. Moreover it can be quite irritating to a driver who is following a car with rear fog lights “on” as the light is quite bright and intense.
Many manufacture’s due to obvious cost reasons have removed this feature in Indian version e.g. Figo.
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Old 26th October 2012, 10:24   #8
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Default Re: Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

I think the rear fog lights should be on the lower part of the rear bumper like in the Swift and the Punto.

Having rear fog lights on the taillights (like the i20?) is not a good application
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Old 26th October 2012, 12:56   #9
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Mod Note : Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD! To know how to multi-quote, click here (How to MULTI-QUOTE (when replying to a thread) on Team-BHP).


Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
I think the rear fog lights should be on the lower part of the rear bumper like in the Swift and the Punto.

Having rear fog lights on the taillights (like the i20?) is not a good application
I agree with this idea of yours. Placing them below the tail lights wouldn't irritate the trailing car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
There are rear fog lamps in most of the cars sold in India but the problem is in some cars (like SX4)

Coming to your suggestion to car makers and Government to make rear fog lamps mandatory in North India at least is difficult buddy.

The problem here I see is the awareness people lack.


Anurag.
Anurag, I beg to differ with you on the first point. See the majority of the cars sold in India (Between Rs. 2 lakh to 10 lakh) do not have fog lamps and even if the do they are only in the higher priced variants as I mentioned in my post.

For Eg: Tata Nano, Chevrolet Spark/Beat, Maruti Alto, Ritz, Swift, Dzire, Honda Brio/City, Toyota Etios/Liva/ Altis/ Innova, Mahindra Quanto, Xylo, Scorpio and the list goes on and on.

Coming to your second point, you are right that it will be a cumbersome process to differentiate cars sold in north and south India, but I suggest may be the fog lamps can be fitted at the dealer level in north India. If that is possible.

Awareness about when to use fog lamps should be there for sure but what I have seen is that not many people even know what rear fog lamps are. Most of my friends/relatives thought that it was a fancy light until i told them that it is to be used only in foggy conditions.

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Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post
In a country filled with untrained and irresponsible drivers, rear fog lamps are more a bane than boon. On any cloudless evening, you'll notice that people unnecessarily keep the fog lamps on. People just want to show off that they have fog lamps (like sun roof, being discussed in another thread).
Dear Rohan, you should come down to Delhi and drive in the heavy fog in December and January, then you will understand whether a rear fog lamp is a bane or a boon.

I drive around 40 kms daily across the city and I am terrified every year during the winter months whenever there is heavy fog. I have seen terrible accidents.

Moreover, I rarely see people driving with their rear fog lamps on in Delhi. Maybe I am lucky But my point is that we should look at the bigger picture.

I agree a rear fog lamp switched on when the the skies are clear and there are no rains or fog can be IRRITATING but never dangerous. I mean you won't ram your car in the pavement or something because you were blinded by the glare. I hope you get me. But these lamps can be life savers. Trust me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post

The main reason for having more and more countries making it obligatory to have dipped lights on is that is has been proven to reduce accidents.


So, you might wonder what they hell you're doing on the road under those conditions anyway. The biggest problem with turning on foglights to early is that you blind the cars coming towards you or behind you.

Jeroen
Going by your first point rear fog lamps are equally important then. But my friend i wholeheartedly disagree with you when you say that FOG LAMPS front or rear BLIND the oncoming or trailing drivers. They may irritate you but they never blind you my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tj123 View Post
India the usefulness of this feature is limited to just the northern states which has some fog during the winter months. However I think that overall the traffic speeds are way too low to warrant such feature. Moreover it can be quite irritating to a driver who is following a car with rear fog lights ďonĒ as the light is quite bright and intense.
Many manufactureís due to obvious cost reasons have removed this feature in Indian version e.g. Figo.
TJ, the traffic speeds are slow during heavy fog but what do you do when cars all around have their blinkers on. You will be perplexed whether to keep on moving or apply your brakes in such a situation thinking that the car in front may be stationery.

This happened to me last year on the highway running parallel to CWG village towards Ghaziabad. I was driving at 40 kmph and the fog was dense. I was being trailed by an army truck. I was in the extreme left side of the road driving very cautiously and then I saw this car in front of me with its blinkers on.

Seriously, I coudn't make out for quite sometime whether the car was moving or not and whether shod i overtake it, keep following it as I did not want to be sandwiched between the army truck and that car in case it was stationery.

Last edited by GTO : 26th October 2012 at 16:38. Reason: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another!
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Old 26th October 2012, 13:49   #10
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Default Re: Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

Considering that many people drive with front fogs on at all times, I think the rear will meet the same fate. Same as many creative uses of the hazard warning.
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Old 26th October 2012, 15:02   #11
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Default Re: Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

IMHO rear fog lamp should be mandated atleast more then half of geographical area of India ( Except Penensular India) is covered by fog & Smog during winters. Also in South India receives both Southwest and North East Mansoon and fog lamp is quite useful in torrential rains.

ARAI need to come up with regulation for maximum height of rear fogs.
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Old 26th October 2012, 15:29   #12
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Default Re: Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

In a country were every car does not even have front fog lamps expecting the same at the rear is probably asking for too much.

And in my experience the white bulbs and the light is less visible in fog than the bright red lights. Most proper fog lamps need to be yellow in colour and not white as white does not pierce through the fog easily (yellow and bright reds are better in this area)
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Old 26th October 2012, 15:37   #13
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Default Re: Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

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In a country were every car does not even have front fog lamps expecting the same at the rear is probably asking for too much.
May be front fog also needs to be mandated , I remember when I was small cars came without side indicators and seatbelts until law forced manufacturers. Side Indicators were mandated sometime between 86-88 and it was hot topic of discussion. Only AC models used to have indicators. Sticker of "AC no hand Signal" on some taxis is relic of that era.


I think only way of making vehicles safe is through mandate. Front and rear fogs are not that costly either so all variants should have them.

Last edited by GTO : 26th October 2012 at 16:40. Reason: Correcting typos. Please proof-read posts before submitting. Thanks
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Old 26th October 2012, 16:04   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk
Considering that many people drive with front fogs on at all times, I think the rear will meet the same fate. Same as many creative uses of the hazard warning.
Sir i agree with the fact that front fog lights are meant for foggy winter season,i drive on highways for 95% of my commute and the front fogs help in improving the all round visibility in dark without blinding the oncoming traffic,so why not?

My vehicle is also equipped with rear fog lamp,since they do not aid illumination,i use them
Either in fog or extreme rains.

Also Punto active is the only car that comes with OEM rear fog light and no front one's.

Last edited by akshay4587 : 26th October 2012 at 16:07.
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Old 26th October 2012, 17:03   #15
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Default Re: Why rear fog lamps are not made mandatory?

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Originally Posted by captain.torque View Post
Mod Note : Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD! To know how to multi-quote, click here (How to MULTI-QUOTE (when replying to a thread) on Team-BHP).

I agree a rear fog lamp switched on when the the skies are clear and there are no rains or fog can be IRRITATING but never dangerous. I mean you won't ram your car in the pavement or something because you were blinded by the glare. I hope you get me. But these lamps can be life savers. Trust me.

Going by your first point rear fog lamps are equally important then. But my friend i wholeheartedly disagree with you when you say that FOG LAMPS front or rear BLIND the oncoming or trailing drivers. They may irritate you but they never blind you my friend.
See: http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/31/u...300-000-accid/

The correct term appears to be "dazzle". And has caused 300.000 accidents in the UK last year. So it bit more serious than just irritating!

Jeroen
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