[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Just came across this article written by Sanjay Mahalingam - who is the owner of a Dec 2017 1200R GSA Pro purchased from BMW Motorrad showroom in Bangalore — Tusker Motorrad.

He has alleged (and with proof) that he has been cheated on multiple fronts during the purchase of this flagship premium motorcycle. Sharing the story here as its quite disappointing to see premium motorcycle customers go through such disheartening purchase experiences.

(Tusker BMW File image, courtesy member Coplay)



(Customers motorcycle during delivery)

Issue - 1: Falsifying official records like Form 21 to show 2018 model year, only to handover a 2017 MY motorcycle to the customer.

Read the full story here - https://medium.com/@sanjay444/issue-...e-30c2b6fbacdc

I got cheated by the Tusker salesperson, and was sold an older model motorcycle. He also showed me papers that clearly mentioned model year as 2018 for my motorcycle. Later, after couple of months ( around March 2018 ) when i visited BMW service centre in Mumbai — was informed about the missing features like hill start, ride modes pro etc and they clearly proved to me that my motorcycle was an older 2017 model.

BMW also falsified the form 21 document ( given at the time of purchase in INDIA), and hence my Registration card also has wrong information.

Bike is June 2017 manufactured.

Certificate of origin provided by BMW Motorrad states model year as 2018.

Form 21 provided by dealer shows October 2017 as manufacturing month.

Issue - 2: Inflated (by 51k) clutch replacement costs by separately billing for parts included in the kit.

Read the full story here - https://medium.com/@sanjay444/cheati...e-1ff38e290398

They are charging 2x the cost for changing clutch assembly, infact i wonder why we need to change whole assembly as only plates are worn out.

With the help of BMW Motorrad USA, i found that Clutch package ( part 5) from BMW includes the parts 2, 3, and 4. Service at Tusker is cheating the customer by including it as separate items along with part 5 ( clutch package) .

Since this is internal and visible only to service folks, Tusker and BMW India thought they can fool the customers easily.

To summarize, Tusker earns 51k INR by cheating here.

[avishar]

I don't get it. Did the person not cross-check the VIN before buying? Or did he not wonder why are there certain features missing? Looking at press releases, BMW released the information of their 2018 updates in July, '17.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...s-updates-2018

Also, why would a date be engraved like that? Shouldn't he be referring to the full VIN? That date could be that of just that component/part.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by avishar

I don't get it. Did the person not cross-check the VIN before buying?

Shouldn't he be referring to the full VIN?

True. I doubt a PDI was done as well - which is essential from a customer perspective. Ideally he should have checked the vehicle thoroughly before registration and full payment.

But I doubt any of these premium purchasers do that - even in the case of high end cars. Many of them just pay up and then only visit the dealership for taking delivery.

That doesn't absolve a manufacturer and the dealer of their responsibilities.

Originally Posted by avishar

Looking at press releases, BMW released the information of their 2018 updates in July, '17.

However - his bike with MY2018 certificate of origin provided by BMW and Oct 2017 manufacturing date declared by the dealer is missing the pro ride modes and hill start (as informed to him by the Mumbai BMW service center).

Also as per his claim - BMW India acknowledged it and asked him to fight the Bangalore dealer instead of the company -

Mental agony to deal with bunch of useless folks at BMW motorrad India like Mr.Sxxxxx Gxxxxx who told me its not their problem as i didn’t buy the motorcycle from BMW India and asked me to fight with BMW dealer in Bangalore. Though it kind off fair enough, I seriously didn’t expect that response. The whole feeling of paying so much money, and getting cheated by brand like BMW — made me feel like a fool. Didn’t BMW issue the certificate of origin letter ? so why can’t BMW India be held responsible ??

[graaja]

"MY" means model year, which is different from manufacturing year. Per the VIN decoder, the manufacturing year is June 2017, which could be still Model Year 2018. As a reference, my BMW 330iGT is a MY2018 car, but manufactured in July 2017. So the certificate of origin is not wrong.

Having said that, it is a totally different story what the dealer would have said to the customer or if the customer misunderstood model year as manufacturing year, or if the dealer intentionally misled the customer to believe that the motorbike was manufactured in 2018.

Legally though, I don't think there is anything that the customer can do unless he has proof of the dealer leading the custome to believe that it was manufactured in 2018.

Regarding the quotation for clutch, again there is a possibility that the dealer intentionally inflated the quote by adding components that are supposed to be part of the clutch pack, with an intention to cheat. There is also an equal possibility that the dealer did not read the diagram correctly to understand that #5 included #2, #3 and #4. The document attached is still a quotation, not an invoice where the dealer has already taken the customer's money.

All this points to a sad truth though. You have to be really knowledgeable and do a lot of research when it comes to these high end cars and motor cycles. Otherwise, there is a high probability of being taken for a ride - intentionally or unintentionally.

PS: There is a discrepancy in the Form-21 that mentions October-2017 as manufacturing month, whereas the VIN decoder mentions manufacturing month as June 2017. But again the VIN decoder could be wrong!

[avishar]

Sorry, I had not noticed that the person had posted the VIN too. It is indeed a July' 17 manufacture. That would make this bike a pre-2018 update bike. However, if you run the VIN number of this bike, it says that it has 'Riding Modes Pro' and a 'Production Date for India' as options.

BMW certainly has some explaining to do! This is some Frankenstein bike!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by graaja

Per the VIN decoder, the manufacturing year is June 2017, which could be still Model Year 2018. As a reference, my BMW 330iGT is a MY2018 car, but manufactured in July 2017.

Legally though, I don't think there is anything that the customer can do unless he has proof of the dealer leading the custome to believe that it was manufactured in 2018.

Issue is not just that it is manufactured in 2017, although mentioned as MY2018 - issue is that it doesn't have the upgraded features present in the MY2018 version - as per his claim, which he says was clarified to him by the Mumbai SVC.

Later, after couple of months ( around March 2018 ) when i visited BMW service centre in Mumbai — was informed about the missing features like hill start, ride modes pro etc and they clearly proved to me that my motorcycle was an older 2017 model.

Plus BMW India asked him to fight it out with the Bangalore dealership for this issue -

Mental agony to deal with bunch of useless folks at BMW motorrad India like Mr.Sxxxxx Gxxxxx who told me its not their problem as i didn’t buy the motorcycle from BMW India and asked me to fight with BMW dealer in Bangalore.

Originally Posted by graaja

The document attached is still a quotation, not an invoice where the dealer has already taken the customer's money.

True. But as per him, there are others in his circle who have already paid up this amount -

These guys know what they are doing. My friend has just replaced clutch at Tusker and had the same parts list . So i’m not the first clutch replacement case for Tusker.

A bill of this would have been more ideal to support his argument though.

[bigron]

Frankly, in cases like these its really hard to tell the origin of wrong. The reason is lack of complete information and sequence of events.
Not going into the merits of the case, he can definitely implead BMW as a party if he decides to take the legal route. (BMW will eventually manage to argue that the onus was on the dealer). He will of course need to have very clear documentation to show malice on the part of the Dealer.

[Who_are_you]

Customer trust dealer because of brand name. If I am buying a high end bike through legal channel, I would expect full support from company.

BMW India should have atleast tried to figure out what went wrong ?

I am eagerly waiting for launch of BMW GS 310, but now I have to reconsider my decision.

[bigron]

Just like a person buying a Maruti will do his best to ensure what he is getting is what he wants/asked for before he signs the dotted line, it is no different for a prospective BMW owner. He needs to do his bit and the fact that he is being greeted by people in suits changes nothing.
I did the same PDI when i bought my Yamaha RX100 and when I got my Fat Gixxer.
Also, how are you sure BMW did not try to figure out what was wrong? Clearly your source is same as mine which is this thread.
Which brings me back to what I said when I started my previous post. These threads are very hard to judge due to lack of complete information.
I am sure someone in the know will throw clear light on this and than we can all pick sides.

[GTO]

'Model Year' is completely different from 'Manufacturing Year'. For instance, in the USA, '2019 Model Year' cars will go on sale very shortly. By law, 2019 model year cars are allowed to go on sale from January 2018 itself.

With reference to the difference in manufacturing dates, June 2017 denotes the manufacturing in Germany, while October 2017 is for India. Same with my 530d. Of course, it is the dealer's job to explain this to the customer. If it was done properly, there would be none of this confusion.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Clutch replacement costs by separately billing for parts included in the kit.[/b]

Haven't read about the alleged service scam in detail, but this is just SAD if true. Premium brands should pamper customers like the Taj does its hotel guests.

[VellVector]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

True. But as per him, there are others in his circle who have already paid up this amount - A bill of this would have been more ideal to support his argument though.

Not going to comment on the model year debate since it seems to be a case of he said - she said between the owner and dealership.

When it comes to the clutch service - I wouldn't immediately jump onto the cheating band wagon. Most of these dealerships don't have technicians experienced in servicing these bikes. It's possible they mis-understood the diagram and thought all the parts were separate. Another issue is due to the long lead time on parts for most of these brands - many a time the service guys don't want to take risks and ask for approval to order extra parts and then just bill for the parts actually used (This has happened with me at least 3 times).

I've dealt with Tusker's HD service for a some time now. They are reasonably arrogant but I've never had any issues with them trying to overcharge. - The BMW side may be different I have had no personal experience with them.

I have a couple of friends who own GSA and one who owns a K1600 and both are happy with Tusker.

I'm not giving the dealer a clean chit - it is their responsibility to know how to service the bike properly - but in India that just doesn't happen and if you aren't willing to deal with that then owning one of these bikes or cars just isn't the right option for you. Or it could be that the dealership was really trying to cheat this guy like he says.

[jinojohnt]

Originally Posted by avishar

I don't get it. Did the person not cross-check the VIN before buying? Or did he not wonder why are there certain features missing? Looking at press releases, BMW released the information of their 2018 updates in July, '17.

Hate to be saying this -
Whenever something like this happens, people always blame the customer - he didn't check this, he didn't check that.
Whether a customer is cautious or not, a seller cannot cheat. Period.
When everybody is thinking like this, no wonder we are not able to make strong laws like the ones in the US.

OT - I bought a Louis Philippe belt yesterday from Trivandrum - the rep showed me a set of belts from a rack, and said 'these are the only ones we have'.
I selected one for Rs 2099, and (after paying) when I walked around the store, I saw another rack with belts in the Rs 1400 to 1700 range.
Now if I post this here, I'm sure all of you will I say that I should have walked around the store BEFORE selecting.
Doesn't matter that I didn't like anything in the second rack anyway, I would go to the extend of calling this a fraud. Brickbats?

[pramods]

Just to add on Rider Pro, the owner need to check if he has the dongle, the dongle is attached to the seat and is not fitted to the bike from factory, it possible that it may still be somewhere with the rider. This dongle has to be fixed later to have the Rider pro features enabled to the bike( generally after 1st Service by service people) but quit possible it not done here or the dongle has been misplaced/missed either by owner or dealer.



-Pramod

[VellVector]

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

Hate to be saying this -
Whenever something like this happens, people always blame the customer - he didn't check this, he didn't check that.
Whether a customer is cautious or not, a seller cannot cheat. Period.
When everybody is thinking like this, no wonder we are not able to make strong laws like the ones in the US.

I don't think anyone is saying the dealer is not at fault for cheating - if that is in fact what has happened.

I bought my Z800 sight unseen, no test ride, nothing - just faith on the dealer and got lucky. With my Fat Boy and Road Glide, I checked every paper before paying a cent.

But at the same time, these issues are reasonably common in India at the moment and our current laws do not protect the buyer. So it makes sense to protect your own interests. If you are brave enough to play roulette with your money and your spin lands the wrong way - then you fight it out in our efficient court system. (There is a thread of someone fighting a consumer court case against Kawasaki and it shows just how these guys waste time.). Personally I would just do the due diligence, most of these companies will throw you under the bus before they help.

[Turbanator]

Agree with jinojhont, it's the responsibility of the Dealer to explain the difference in the variants and Model Year if applicable( different from manufacturing year as mentioned by others) I can understand Dealer not telling any information about the new planned features in upcoming lot but giving something from old stocks without passing benefits is not a correct. Here is North, I have some good experience with BMW Motorrad dealer. Their guys clearly explained the features they are expecting in MY 18 even when they had no bikes and recently when I was checking offers on GSA, they offered 2017 MY at some discounts and also explained about the missing features clearly. They never tried to push me for the older one. In this case, I still think that the Bike is MY2018 only and only a few features will be different from the current ones (maybe introduced later or not activated as per Pramods observation) as BMW Origin certificate cannot be wrong.

But, BMW India not coming to the help is not correct. When a Dealer prepares an estimate they intend to charge the customer, they cannot tell later that it was a mistake, that's cheating nothing else.. period. If it was an error and they found later, they should have explained customer in a better way and even passed him their margin as a rebate if not FOC.

I wonder why is BMW in India losing control on their dealers, on a little different case, have a look at the estimate BMW Kolkatta dealer gave us- see the 10 bottles of Diesel additives added in the Proforma- I still don't have any reply from BMW how and where is their dealer going to use 10 bottles of Diesel additive during service on a 730-D?