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Old 18th September 2010, 04:27   #1
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Default Lancer SLXi - paid a premium to get tubed tyres !!!

In reply to my previous post leadf00t had warned me not to change from stock 175/80/R13 to 185/70/R13. But I went ahead and switched to Michelin XM1+. I wanted to retain the 13" OE alloys but fix the tyre noise, also I did not mind losing GC by 10 mm. (calculated as per car bibles website)

Guess what!! After driving 200 kms on Michelins I felt a smoother ride and the tyre noise was completely gone BUT....
  1. The car lost 13 mm of GC - measured it myself before and after. Stock GC of 185 mm was now 172 mm and with 5 people seated this went down further by 10 mm - Michelinís thin sidewall bulges easily with the extra load.
  2. The Lancer's suspension got an allergy due to the fatter and shorter tyres. The car swayed a lot over bad roads - like a rocking boat on rough seas. Michelin cannot be blamed; this was more due to the ageing suspension that could not flex fully when the wheel went over potholes. I think Michelins are much lighter compared to most other tyres.
  3. Pickup needed more throttle and I also felt a slight drag when pulling up from 25 kmph in 3rd gear - earlier this was not a problem. I am sure FE must have gone down a little.
Back to the tyre shop, I returned the tubeless Michelins and paid a premium to get Bridgestone tubed tyres (stock 175/80/R13) must be the first time someone did this on Team-BHP The dealer was happy to sell his last set of tubed tyres that nobody else wants these days and I was happy to have fixed problem # 1 and 3

Problem # 2 - the excessive sway/roll has lessened but still there. I can live with it but I wonder if this can lead to fatigue of other parts and cause a breakdown?

So, what does it take to fix the suspension? Do I replace all 4 shockers + 4 coil springs + rubber bushings? and what would be the expenses? or is it something to do with the Sway Bar/Stabilizers?

I prefer ride comfort over performance and rather trust OE replacements. Once again I request your advise and this time I will heed it for sure.

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Old 18th September 2010, 10:36   #2
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I don't quite get the logic for switching to tubed tyres. You should have kept to OEM size or switched to a 13" tyre choice with same OD which is probably rare option for upsizing @ 13". For eg.,you could have got Michelin XM1 in 175/80R13 or Bridgestone S248 Tubeless tyres.

Regarding the suspension, you should get it checked and serviced/cleaned/retorqued @ A.S.S., and ask for opinion on whether they need to be changed. Usually, the bushes go bad first, while suspension arms etc are pretty robust.
A.S.S. does not sell the bushes separately, so if its only the bushes, you have to source it externally.

My 2003 car has done 77.6k km, and though I had some noises from rear suspension a couple of times, it got rectified with cleaning/retorquing at the A.S.S., and suspension seems to be in good nick (knocks on wood).
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Old 18th September 2010, 12:19   #3
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I was running on stock suspension till I sold the car at 92K kms.

I was running 195/60-14 Bridgestone Turanza tubeless tyres.

Suspension needs to be retorqued, alignment and balancing done properly. Was the balancing done on the new tyres at all?
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Old 18th September 2010, 12:21   #4
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1. I own a lancer sfxi which already has a 172mm ground clearance. My car only scraps on bumps if I go fast over a big speed breaker with 5 people on board.

2. The swaying might be due to bad alignment and balancing by the tyre shop. Check with the service center for any suspension issues. (note: Hope its not as bad as Autonova Ahmedabad. A 10-year old roadside mechanic will do a better and cheaper job). If I remember properly the suspensions can be manually adjusted. I am not sure about this though. If you go for a new suspension there are some after market companies which are better than what HM-Mitsubishi supplies. I have sat in lancers with different suspensions and I can confirm the fact. There is a brand with yellow and red suspensions for comfort and sport but dont remember its name. My lancer had to get a rear suspension replacement at around 88K.

3. That's a first I heard of. Maybe you felt the lack of power due to the car going silent and the tyres going soft. Something people called seat off the pants feelings.
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Old 18th September 2010, 13:30   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
you could have got Michelin XM1 in 175/80R13 or Bridgestone S248 Tubeless tyres.
Bridgestone S248 (175/80/R13) is what I had in stock form and nobody makes this size in tubeless. The 175/80/R13 are used only on Lancer GLX/SLX, Ford Escort, Daewoo Cielo and Fiat Palio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
Was the balancing done on the new tyres at all?
Balancing + Alignment was done when I put Michelin.
Only balancing was done when I put new Bridgestone S248.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
There is a brand with yellow and red suspensions for comfort and sport but dont remember its name.
........
.......
Maybe you felt the lack of power due to the car going silent and the tyres going soft. Something people called seat off the pants feelings.
Koni / Pedders?
I am quite positive of the drag feeling and it's because of the larger footprint of the tyre. The tyre noise was at higher speeds only.

Thanks everyone. I am off to the A.S.S again and will reply later with an update.
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Old 19th September 2010, 00:08   #6
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Looks like a bad alignment job to me, you should not replace suspension until it starts making noise, just for the price reference

The LHS Lowering arm is 3.5k--RHS is 9k
Front shocks are 3.5k Each(oil filled)
Rear Shocks are 2.9k Each(oil filled) Gas charged is expensive by a couple of thousand bucks, do not get any performance shocks on stock tyres, the OEM setup is the best.

Wider tires tramline, but 185 is not very wide size, just get the suspension re torqued, after getting my suspension redone i had this problem where the car would sway to any direction but slowly with the running in of the new setup the car feels fine. New tyres definitely changes the old suspension geometry so some change in the ride can be expected.


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Old 19th September 2010, 03:33   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
The LHS Lowering arm is 3.5k--RHS is 9k
Front shocks are 3.5k Each(oil filled)
Rear Shocks are 2.9k Each(oil filled) Gas charged is expensive by a couple of thousand bucks, do not get any performance shocks on stock tyres, the OEM setup is the best.
At the A.S.S. the mechanic who specialized in suspension work was not available so I have to revisit next week. However the Service manager provided me the updated info and prices of all OE suspension parts...
  1. Front Strut (shockers): 2 x OE Indian (Gabriel gas filled) >> 2586/- each (oil filled were offered by HM earlier)
  2. Front Strut (shockers): 2 x OE Japanese (KYB gas filled) >> 12000/- each
  3. Rear Shock Absorbers: 2 x OE Japanese (KYB gas filled) >> 5700/- each (HM used to offer oil filled Gabriels earlier but they switched back to OE Japanese after receiving many complaints)
  4. Coil Springs: 4 x OE Indian >> 800/- each
  5. Front Strut Insulator: 2 x OE Indian >> 1200/- each
  6. Front Strut Bearing: 2 x OE Indian >> 520/- each
  7. Lower Arm Rubber Bush: 2 x OE Indian >> 450/- each
  8. Stabilizer Bar Rubber Bush: 2 x OE Indian >> 1200/- each
  9. Front Lower Arm: 2 x OE Indian >> 3800/- each
  10. Rear Lower Arm: 2 x OE Indian >> 1200/- each
  11. Rear Lower Link: 2 x OE Indian >> 840/- each
  12. Rear Upper Link: 2 x OE Indian >> 1200/- each
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639;
I was running on stock suspension till I sold the car at 92K kms
The service manager mentioned that the stock suspension of pre-2002 Lancers had many Japanese parts that lasted loooong. Mine is 2001 model with 59K on the odo, so the suspension should be in good shape. I will revisit next week and get the verdict from the mechanic.

BTW, I noticed the door striker of other Lancers has a plastic coating around the U shaped striker.

Mine has worn-out and peeling off to peices. I was advised to replace all 4 and it costs only 50/- each. Does this help in getting the reassuring thud when the door closes?

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Old 19th September 2010, 10:40   #8
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@chewbacca, thanks for the detailed part list & costing info. It appears A.S.S is selling the bushes separately now while earlier one had to change the arm assembly itself - that's good.

Given the low-mileage on your car, I would really not think there is a suspension problem - my car has endured some worst grade of roads/part offroads on trips outside Bangalore, and mountain speed breakers inside it - besides I have upsized wheels and tyres for past 27k km.
Did you get the wheel alignment checked again ? Sometimes its better to get the wheel alignment done outside at a good tyre shop - in any case, always ask for the report and check it yourself (speaking from A.S.S. experience).

Regarding the tyres, yes, I haven't come across such high profile tyres as HM put on Lancer *LXi/d models. Did you check the year of manufacture on this last set of tubed Bridgestones you got ? It will be writen as wwyy (read calendar week ww of Year yy) on your tyres.
JFYI, HM switched to MRF ZV2K for Lancers long back, and they are supposed to be better than S248 (as per A.S.S. claims)
The best thing would be upsize to 14" atleast IMO. However, get your suspension doubts resolved before that :-)

For the doors, yes my doors do close with a small thud (not quite like a Octavia, but way more solid than most Japs/Koreans).
For 200bucks, get it changed - why think too much ? If nothing, it may start rattling etc in time ?

Last edited by lancer_rit : 19th September 2010 at 10:44.
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Old 19th September 2010, 11:04   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
It appears A.S.S is selling the bushes separately now while earlier one had to change the arm assembly itself - that's good.
I still doubt that as this requires lathe work to remove the old bushes and put the new one. Any ways if its true its great. BTW the tie rod ends are 7k for the set including labor.


@Chewbacca the prices are not accurate, the RHS lowering arm is 9k, no doubts about it. and the gas charged shocks are within 6k each. Anyways, the door striker along with the door rubber ensure the movement of the door is restricted when the car goes over potholes, this is also responsible for having the door aligned to the car body(by moving it inwards/outwards). if you want to get that thud sound the door has to be heavy, this can be achieved by using damping materials to the door and by replacing worn out door striker, door rubber beading and hinges if necessary.

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Old 19th September 2010, 22:49   #10
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Hi,

I own a 2000 model lancer slxi and am running 215/45/R17s ...so far i've not had any problems with the suspension.
In lieu of a stock suspension, you could opt for a good aftermarket upgrade, like Koni .
i have Koni fitted on my alto and they work like a dream, i think you should consider the same for your lancer.
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Old 20th September 2010, 03:49   #11
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@Lancer_rit
@pramodkumar
Only the driver side door has minor problems and does not sound the sweet thud. Anyway, I am replacing all 4 strikers and 1 hinge next week. The rubber beadings are in great shape so no need to replace that.

@Lancer_rit
The stock Bridgestone S248 were of date Feb 2001.
The new ones are the same with Dec 2009 date.

@pramodkumar
As regards the price of the gas charged shocks, they might have meant 12000/- for a pair and not each. I will recheck and let you know.

I recall the manager saying .... "If both bushes are bad then we recommend replacing the entire lower arm because it costs only 1200/-" .....I am not sure if that applies to the front or rear, also not sure how many bushes are there for each arm.

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Old 16th October 2010, 02:09   #12
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Default Updated info on Lancer's suspension components.

Updated info as on Oct 15th 2010....
  • Front strut of Japanese KYB (gas filled) is indeed 12000/- each.
  • The front stabilizer bar has 4 rubber bushes and costs 800/- (set of 4)
  • The rear stabilizer bar also has 4 rubber bushes and costs 1500/- (set of 4)
  • No rubber parts on Rear upper and lower link.
  • Rubber bushes on Front Lower Arm cannot be relplaced seperately, you have to replace the entire arm. (that's 3800/- each)
  • Rubber bushes on Rear Lower Arm can be relplaced seperately, requires lathe work to remove the old bushes. If both bushes are bad then they recommend replacing the entire lower arm because it costs only 1200/-
Here's how you identify a bad shocker .... after removing the entire strut, hold it vertically resting on the ground and press the piston all the way in. If it's good, the piston rises back gradually to original length. Even if it does not, you should be able to pull it out with the same pressure/effort. In my case it took more effort to pull it back out, the RH side being worse than the LH side.

At the service centre today I replaced the front 2 struts with OE Gabriel shockers (Part # LR403247 / LR403248) for 2600/- each. Also replaced the Front Strut bearing for 340/- each and did a wheel alignment job. Now the ride quality has improved and the "rocking boat" feel is gone
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Old 18th October 2010, 09:34   #13
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congrats on the suspension overhaul.

So, did I get this right that the Gabriel shocks are not gas-filled unlike the KYB Japanese ones ?

Did you try to find out how much the KYB ones cost outside the A.S.S. ?
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Old 19th October 2010, 14:18   #14
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@Lancer_rit
You got it right, Gabriel shocks are not gas-filled like the KYB Japanese.

Gas shockers do not necessarily provide better comfort when the travelling distance is short. Only during long drive over bad roads makes the oil to froth and bubble and thus degrade the ride quality. This is where the gas filled shockers score.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 20:40   #15
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Default Re: Lancer SLXi - paid a premium to get tubed tyres !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post
At the A.S.S. the mechanic who specialized in suspension work was not available so I have to revisit next week. However the Service manager provided me the updated info and prices of all OE suspension parts...

* Rear Shock Absorbers: 2 x OE Japanese (KYB gas filled) >> 5700/- each (HM used to offer oil filled Gabriels earlier but they switched back to OE Japanese after receiving many complaints)
Interesting. SVR Motors told me only oil filled are available and showed me one - Cost about 2300/- each
Quote:
* Lower Arm Rubber Bush: 2 x OE Indian >> 450/- each
* Stabilizer Bar Rubber Bush: 2 x OE Indian >> 1200/- each
A.S.S. claimed only Stabilizer bar rubber bush is available - Lower Arm needs to be changed completely! So are you sure?
Quote:
* Rear Lower Arm: 2 x OE Indian >> 1200/- each
A.S.S. is quoting a 4x higher price of 4985/- each
Quote:
* Rear Lower Link: 2 x OE Indian >> 840/- each
A.S.S. is quoting 1900/- each
Quote:
* Rear Upper Link: 2 x OE Indian >> 1200/- each
*
A.S.S. is quoting 2000/- each. So, my car @90k and 8.5+ years needs some work on the rear suspension, and SVR seems to be quoting pretty high prices. Is this because of imported parts ? Looking for some hints here ...

Thanks,

Last edited by lancer_rit : 3rd November 2011 at 20:47.
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