[Ashley Nair]

Gurus,
I have one small doubt. Recently I purchased a Bolero DI Turbo,2006 model. In the user's manual, which is describes two engine options, I have observed the following( only rlevant details included):

MDI 3200TCA MDI 3200TCB
Power: 46.3KW@3200RPM 46.3 KW@3200RPM
Torque: 180 Nm@1500 to 1800Rpm 95 Nm@1500 to 1800Rpm
Brakes: Hydraulic, tandem master Hydraulic. tandem master cylinder with vacuam assisted servo cylinder with vacuam assisted servo servo. Disc at front
Later on in the manual, it is also cautioned that the " MDI TCB engine is fitted with turbo charger, which is a sophisticated and precision equipment".

In the Bolero website, the specifications say that MDI 3200TC is having torque of 180Nm@1440-1500 RPM.

Now, my doubt is,

1.What is the difference between MDI 3200TCA and TCB ?

2. Why has Mahindra reduced the 195Nm torque to 180Nm of the MDI 3200 platform?

Since my Bolero is having front discs, I presume that it is having MDI 3200TCB with 195 Nm.But there are no means of identifying the same, except the above description in the service manual. I also feel that the DI turbo's acceleration is superior to the current model( or is it psychological?) after driving both. I have also seen a post in Team BHP, where it is claimed that DI Turbo can go all way upto 140kms/hour(with pics of the speedo). Is it because of the additional 15Nm torque of the TCB engine?

Spike and other gurus, please explain

[jeepster]

IMO its the slight changes for FE & emissions norms.

mostly changes in fuel supply & valve timings & opening distances.

its only a guess.

[Ashley Nair]

Maybe, but most of my doubts aere still left unanswered

[headers]

Originally Posted by Ashley Nair

I have also seen a post in Team BHP, where it is claimed that DI Turbo can go all way upto 140kms/hour(with pics of the speedo).

The "stock" DI Turbo bolero cannot go more than 120 kph - The fuel pump cuts the engine

[ringoism]

Just wondering if anyone out there knows where to find all the usual rebuild specs for Mahindra Diesels (in my case, MDI3200), i.e., service limits, tolerances, clearances, torque (bolt tightening) specifications, etc. Stuff like valve stem-to-guide clearance and ring end-gap and crankshaft end-thrust, etc, etc. (local mechanic friends kind of laugh at this... but then again, their rebuilds never last as long as the original company unit (as a proper rebuild should)). Is the info out there anywhere besides the company service manuals?

I've finally got around to pulling apart the Marshal's DI engine, as it's always been a bit hard to start in the cold (not surprising, now that I've seen the internals - and yeah, it's sub-zero up here these recent nights). Exhaust valves pitted. Rings worn. Top ring groove in piston REALLY loose. Amazing that it actually ran so well apart from the hard starting. Fortunately the crankshaft is in excellent shape, and standard size.

Possibly excepting the new local Mahindra showroom, a very small and mostly untried operation, living in Manali means:

1. No compression testing available.
2. No machine shops available (everything's sent out to God-knows-where/who).
3. No torque wrenches or other specialty tools available.
4. Nearly all mechanics working down in the dirt, with no clean tools, washing fluids, or even shop cloths in sight.
5. Mostly - eh - "unconventional" wisdom available (for example, valve seats kept 1/8" wide vs. the universally standard rule-of-thumb 1/16" (intake side)... oh, and I've seen the one local bike machine shop try and use valve grinding compound instead of a guide reamer (he didn't have the right one for a Pulsar) to adjust the valve-to-guide clearance... Aaargh...)
6. Chalega (Obviously, yes - but how well and for how long???)

Mahindra's shop here in Prini is great compared to most local facilities, in having a cement floor, a lift, and a roof. Service manager a friendly, professional young chap. But with the cash I'd have paid Mahindra for labor, I instead bought a few more of my own specialty tools (valve seat cutters, torque wrench, etc) so I could enjoy the experience / education / back strain of doing it all myself (not my first engine rebuild, mind you, though my first diesel). Ah, the joys!!!

To be totally honest, I, too, am down in the dirt with the rest of 'em. But at least I've got some standards (I try and keep my hands and everything else clean).

At the moment, looking mainly for the cylinder head, main bearing, and connecting rod torque specs. Any help would be most appreciated.

Alternatively, if anyone could confirm what (if any) foreign-origin engine these Mahindra DI's are based on (I heard International Harvester rumored, but never confirmed, and if so, which model?), that might work - info's a bit more available for some stuff sold abroad.

Many Thanks,
-Eric

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Just wondering if anyone out there knows where to find all the usual rebuild specs for Mahindra Diesels (in my case, MDI3200), i.e., service limits, tolerances, clearances, torque (bolt tightening) specifications, etc. ====

Will try to find something for you. But to be honest what ever you are looking for is a DIY grease monkey thing & these kind of members who actually have & "Use" such info, are rare in India, except a few Honorable examples.

I am not saying you are asking the Q in a wrong place, No .

But with the cash I'd have paid Mahindra for labor, I instead bought a few more of my own specialty tools (valve seat cutters, torque wrench, etc) so I could enjoy the experience / education / back strain of doing it all myself (not my first engine rebuild, mind you, though my first diesel). Ah, the joys!!! ===

====To be totally honest, I, too, am down in the dirt with the rest of 'em. But at least I've got some standards (I try and keep my hands and everything else clean).

This is the exact reason why I have ended up setting up my own workshop, Urge to learn plus save money. Sadly I dont have clean hand standards forgot that long ago. I only clean my nails if I get a call to have lunch/dinner at some dignified place

Sudarshan

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

Sadly I dont have clean hand standards forgot that long ago. I only clean my nails if I get a call to have lunch/dinner at some dignified place
Sudarshan

Well, I'm rarely to be found in any sort of dignified places and am finding my nails pretty well beyond cleaning. I also frequently enhance the best of local atmospheres with a cologne curiously reminiscent of diesel fuel.

But indeed, "cleanliness is next to godliness" when it comes to mechanical work, re: the handling of parts themselves; so I don't assemble / install precision components with gritty, grimy hands covered in abrasives that probably reduce the life of an engine (or IP, or ball-bearing, or gearbox, or whatever) by about 50% right from the first startup. This is absolutely fundamental, but so rarely (if ever) observed among "desi" mechanics (including those I count as friends). They sometimes possess an amazing amount of knowledge / experience - but this typically compromises most of their work. In fact, the only "clean" work I've seen done up here is at the IP / injector rebuilder's. But after doing an otherwise great job, even that fellow slipped up and put the final component in my pump after lifting it directly from a gritty worktable (forgot to dip it, I guess, as he'd done with the other parts).

My mechanic buddy here in Bahang received my injectors back from rebuilding the other day with nice plastic caps on both ends, looking all spotless and sealed up in a thick plastic bag nicely stapled shut.... which he proceeded to try and open with his unbelievably filthy, gritty hands, so he could pull one out and show it to me (I stopped him short, fortunately). He's taught me a lot and been really friendly / helpful on a number of occasions - but I have never seen a fresh, clean shop rag (nor quite often, ANY rag) in his possession.

As for me, I think I'm eventually going to build myself a proper parts-washing station - simple enough setup, like a kitchen sink with pumped / roughly filtered / recycled solvent (naptha, diesel, or kerosene would be fine) running via a pipe directly through a circular, hand-held brush. Saves incredible time and gets stuff as clean as it deserves to be. Standard equipment in shops I worked in way back. If you've been setting up your own shop, I'd highly recommend this.

For now, I'll use ten liters of diesel/kerosene in a bath bucket, that I can dip parts (and hands) in while I'm assembling. My wife has already put a bundle of old cotton rags through the washing machine, so I'm all set there.

The Marshal is a relatively limited-use vehicle and the DI is a tough mill, so I'm hoping to not have to expose its innards again for a good decade or so...

-Eric

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

Sadly I dont have clean hand standards forgot that long ago. I only clean my nails if I get a call to have lunch/dinner at some dignified place
Sudarshan

We could also start a thread on the best hand-cleaning options... for Do-It-Yourselfers who might nonetheless get invited on occasion to sit with more polite company

They had a product called "goop" in North America...

-Eric

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by ringoism

But indeed, "cleanliness is next to godliness" when it comes to mechanical work,===

As for me, I think I'm eventually going to build myself a proper parts-washing station -===

For now, I'll use ten liters of diesel/kerosene in a bath bucket, that I can dip parts (and hands) in while I'm assembling. My wife has already put a bundle of old cotton rags through the washing machine, so I'm all set there.

Will be bit OT here, But YES you are 100% correct .

I use plenty of kerosene , pure cotton rags & news papers & plastic bags.

What I normally do is pressure wash things from outside before opening them, things like GB , Engine etc. it prevents the outside muck/oily dirt entering in to such assemblies after you open it.

I use soft bristle Nylon brushes & then compressed air to clean the parts from remaining kerosene. dry them on news papers then wind them up in another clean news papers & if necessary for parts like carbs pack them in plastic bags & they are kept aside in boxes waiting for further assemblies .

One needs this practice for engine or GB parts or assemblies with many parts as cleaning itself takes time & so the checking of parts for wear after they are thoroughly cleaned . And then I get everything ready , I have a constant un hindered supply of clean parts while assembly .

sorry for off topic

Back to topic , No luck yet with the specs you want ...

Sudarshan

[desertfox]

Its your personal choice but Gurgaon offers plenty of solutions. Good guys who know this engine inside out. Bosch workshop where they will service and recalibrate the fuel injector. Repairing this engine is easier than XDP series.

Parts freely available at reasonable prices.

Only problem is that it will be difficult for you to manage it from Himachal.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by ringoism

We could also start a thread on the best hand-cleaning options... for Do-It-Yourselfers who might nonetheless get invited on occasion to sit with more polite company

They had a product called "goop" in North America...

-Eric

Gojo is available in India. Don't know if at retail level or not. Maybe chandlers can help.
Could never find Swarfega.

Regards
Sutripta

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by desertfox

Its your personal choice but Gurgaon offers plenty of solutions. Good guys who know this engine inside out. Bosch workshop where they will service and recalibrate the fuel injector. Repairing this engine is easier than XDP series.

Parts freely available at reasonable prices.

Only problem is that it will be difficult for you to manage it from Himachal.

Well, I'm just a wee bit beyond that now... i.e., I can see the sky up through the block when lying on my back underneath (in the dirt). The whole idea was to do it myself, since I've rebuilt engines before (and even have some formal education along those lines).

Mechanic buddy here (who used to have a torque wrench years ago, probably when he worked in Delhi, and before it broke) says 70-80 lb-ft okay for the DI cylinder head and 60 for the rod caps. Other than that there's not much critical (mains left alone as oil pressure was good). I'm going to try and verify with M&M if I don't get the info here.

I put the new USHA liners in yesterday, will hopefully have the rest of the work done by week's end. Got held up on the valve guides, as the tool I made to remove them broke, also breaking a new guide in the process. Will try and make a better tool today, and if that doesn't work, will have the guides replaced in Mandi (only Rs15 labor each - it's just the three-hour drive I was trying to avoid).

I'm really looking forward to seeing how much better the car runs after all this work (had a bad injector nozzle besides the bad rings/pistons/valve seats).

-Eric

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by ringoism

At the moment, looking mainly for the cylinder head, main bearing, and connecting rod torque specs. Any help would be most appreciated.

Alternatively, if anyone could confirm what (if any) foreign-origin engine these Mahindra DI's are based on (I heard International Harvester rumored, but never confirmed, and if so, which model?), that might work - info's a bit more available for some stuff sold abroad.

Hi Eric,

From what information I have. (Historical/Co-Related/Market Talk)

The MDI Series of Diesel Engines are based on the International Harvester B275 Tractor Diesel Engine, which was Indirect Injection.

This was developed into the MDI1850, MDI2350, MDI3000, MDI3200 & MDI3200 all Direct Injection and Low Revving.

The nomenclature indicates Max engine RPM

Around the time of the MDI3000, this engine went into another track SZ116 for the scorpio then the CRDi version.

What does MDI stand for? Mahindra Direct Injection or Modern Direct Injection.

Regards,

Arka

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

...kerosene , pure cotton rags & news papers & plastic bags....pressure wash things from outside before opening them...soft bristle Nylon brushes & then compressed air....(etc)...

Ahhh.... our methodology is similar (finally, a kindred spirit). I use a lot of plain cardboard boxes of various sizes for keeping cleaned parts (covered with cloth), which like newspaper absorb residual cleaning fluids, but also keep flying dust out a bit. Ziploc plastic bags are great for pre-dried parts, but I can't get them in Manali. I find that if I pack stuff wet it picks up dirt somewhere down the road.

Still, the proposed washing station is a real help in terms of the actual cleaning...

-Eric

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi Eric,
From what information I have. (Historical/Co-Related/Market Talk) The MDI Series of Diesel Engines are based on the International Harvester B275 Tractor Diesel Engine, which was Indirect Injection.

I found a photo of a rebuild kit for the B275, and the oil chamber and head gaskets do look similar (but not that of the valve cover). Found shop manuals / serviceman's handbook online, as well, which show the diameter of rod journals and pistons much smaller - so if the rumor is true, it is a unit that developed significantly over time (I've have found references to B275's from as early as 1960). BTW, I'd always thought of International Harvester as being an American company, but the "B" stood for Britain (British), and apparently was not built in the U.S. (though it was exported there).

For an example of the sort of data I'd like to find, though, check out: B275 serviceman's manual

-Eric