Team-BHP
(
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)
Parts needed:
1 Ball Valve (120Rs)
2 Connectors L Angle (80Rs each)
2 Brake lines (100Rs each)
1 Size ten spanner (IIRC) and nothing else!!
1 mechanic who is ready to get creative and dirty!
NOTE - This can be either fit on rear or front brakes (or even per each wheel of your choice as a manual locker) I chose to do it on front for a reason.
PRE-Fit the valve, L angle, 2 brake hoses at first to avoid brake fluid loss and excess entry of air into the system. I studied this topic for a while and made a map in my mind about the routing and decided to take the "IN from MASTER into VALVE" from the steering pipe hole. Route it along the steering pipe and into the valve.
I routed the "OUT from VALVE" through the hand brake hole on firewall and down into the T-joint of front brake. T Joint is where 1 line from MASTER gets split into 2 lines for left and right wheels (also houses the rear brake light switch).
Next step is SPLIT or reroute the connection from master to the front brake T-Joint via the ball valve. Thats it, done!
Take care to FIX the valve firmly with any means and ensure the setup doesnt rattle/vibrate else the weight of the valve can cut the brake hose.
Pros:
1) Cheap and easy hand brake solution for old jeeps (actually, any hydraulic brake vehicle)
2) Very powerful brake - works on extreme slopes too!! not just flat roads.
3) Very easy to install and if broken, can be taken back to OE setup quickly.
Cons:
1) Reliability!! (Its still day 1 and its working, but cant say the same tommorow)
2) Weakest link is the Ball Valve - current one is cheap, planning to import a Race Certified one and just plug&play into current setup later.
3) NOT a emergency brake - meaning, only if MASTER works 1st and line is pressuried up - and locked - will the brakes be locked - if master or tandem inside wheels are bust - valve is useless!
4) Cannot be used in emergency sudden stops situations like a car hand brake!
I am sure not many people will take the risk and do this mod - but if you are one of those DIY guys like and badly need a hand brake in your jeep - go ahead, nothing to stop you.
I read about this online and just walked into a hardware store and did this in half a days time.
Incidentally, I had ordered and now in receipt of JAMAR Line Lock (roughly 2500Rs), but after reading lot of MIXED reviews online and every "Thumbs Down" thread spoke of "just live with a ball valve" I decided to try this out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh
(Post 2750568)
Hope this works!! Lot of mixed reviews online. Part delivered at friends place in US, getting it around 2nd may. Attachment 917399
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I have supreme confidence in my mechanic and his fundamentals. And I have researched on this mod a lot and went ahead with it, just sharing it with you all.
Superb Santhosh, i think this is a very very useful mod. Even a perfectly working cable system doesn't offer so much of efficiency!
Me likes!
One thing comes to mind.
If your ball valve starts leaking(read cheap and unreliable valve) and you lose pressure you will lose your brakes too:Shockked:
Not a good thing.
@ SV Santosh
I like your DIY spirit & the things you are doing on the Jeep -- those are really innovative & Purposeful , with adequate level of workmanship
Theoretically it looks OK , but few concerns
1) as Kunal has rightly mentioned ,the quality of the material used & its reliability
2) further I doubt the life of the wheel cylinder washers ( seals > Cup/gland ) , will these be taking the constant pressure ?? ( longer extended time of pressure )
the answer is expect reduced life of these parts & leaks
Now the Criticism : you are playing with fire -- careful :)
Sudarshan
Bhai, thanks for the comments.
NOTE - this is not to be used for LONG term parking solution. I dont recommend to use this for any period over 3-5 minutes at a stretch. Definitely not overnight or long term parking solution. There are times in offroading where one cannot switch off the engine to 'walk the trail' (water perhaps) - so this is to be used in such cases. Traffic lights for example? Jeep and city can cause tired legs and one would want to rest their feet on signal stops?
Please continue your feedback :)
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Another application of this which I WILL do in the next stage. Now that I know how this works and what is needed - I plan to do a "LOCKER" mechanism out of this.
Instead of taking input to the VALVE from MASTER and feeding it back to UNION (T Joint) - I plan to leave the MASTER - UNION intact. Instead I will Route the 2 OUTPUTS of UNION to the Dashboard - connect them to 2 different valves and route each to each of the front wheels - In that way i can LOCK the free spinning wheel and power the opposite side and get out of a obstacle where applicable.
(PS - If any one is crazy they can do it for all 4 wheels and get a FULL locker solution for less than 2500Rs. I remember reading somewhere LONG time ago - Arka was planning for a cable type hand brake system on all 4 wheels to work as a locker system - may be this will help)
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For newbies - You may ask What is different in this (RISK) from a regular car hand brake. Read on: (My understanding)
A hand brake (lever) is a cable that is connected to the inners of a brake drum and it manually expands the brake shoes (using a spring loaded mechanism) to hold the wheels in place. So the spring will retract when the hand brake is off. NOTE - No hydraulics is used here, purely manual.
In this system (line lock) the brake system is activated and held in place (read - wheel cylinders are fully actuated) under high pressure. And afterall the seals are made of rubber and designed for a specific life expectancy. As such I have changed so many wheel cylinder KITS (25-30Rs per cyl) thanks to slush, water from offroading. So if you leave this linelocked for extended periods of time the wheel cyl kits will tend to wear out sooner and brakes WILL fail. This system is to be used only for short bursts (3mins say) in trails and stop lights. Warning - As a periodic maintenance check the brake system (irrespective of linelock or not) for leaks, kit fails, metal fatigue (pipe), say once in 3 months (for offroading abused jeeps)
Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh
(Post 2781849)
Another application of this
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Controlle De Trakshone Manuela ?? EH ? :D ( The 'Dream ' of manual traction Control )
Yes this is quite possible & Interesting Idea
I had been thinking on this line for a while ,thats why I asked you abt the valve remember ?? ( the very first time you posted about it here )
So let me tell you what I had thought ( in short )
1) One such shut off valve per wheel cylinder ( 4 in total )
2) placing it after the brake line T junction ( towards wheel cylinder ) on rear axle & 'Remote control them ' ( sounds difficult)
3) for front wheels --- placing it before the flex pipe connection on chassis & also remote control them
#4) Advanced feature > sensors in wheel wells to detect movement of wheel & lights showing for it on dashboard ( you are stuck & a light indicates certain wheel is free ) so no need to get down & see which wheel is spinning ---
Operation with #4 > one needs to shut off the valves of which NO light is glowing .( keeping open the valve of free wheel/s )
Operation without #4 > manually check the spinning wheels & shut valves on other wheels keeping them free of brakes
In both methods you need to toe & heel thing
In any case as soon as you get unstuck you will need to set free all the valves --- for this you will need to be REAL QUICK , particularly if you need brakes to stop OR if you are going for the next Stuck .
Sudarshan
Disclaimer : this is a cooks rant & no need to take seriously :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan
(Post 2781885)
Controlle De Trakshone Manuela ?? EH ? :D
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Please dont tell me you are not attending spikes german classes! :D (runs away)
Quote:
#4) Advanced feature > sensors in wheel wells to detect movement of wheel & lights showing for it on dashboard ( you are stuck & a light indicates certain wheel is free ) so no need to get down & see which wheel is spinning ---
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hehe, i am spared of this trouble. Rear - Lockers, so i dont need to know which is spinning, Front I can always put my head out and see if right wheel is spinning or free and take necessary action on left side...
Quote:
In any case as soon as you get unstuck you will need to set free all the valves --- for this you will need to be REAL QUICK , particularly if you need brakes to stop OR if you are going for the next Stuck .
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this IS the hard part
Quote:
Disclaimer : this is a cooks rant & no need to take seriously
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i did!
Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh
(Post 2781507)
And I have researched on this mod a lot and went ahead with it, just sharing it with you all.
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You are sharing the end result. Do share the research!
My take: A juggad on the brake line not my idea of professionalism.
Regards
Sutripta
PS. The control valve stem: how is it sealed? What special mechanism to see that the valve does not operate when not wanted.
use electrically activated solenoid valves, will save you the trouble of routing pressure lines all the way to the dash for the switch
also you can operate them faster than turning a manual lock..
keep it way from water splashes.
ensure its of high quality water proof ones, or else, you know what will happen..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta
(Post 2782316)
You are sharing the end result. Do share the research!
My take: A juggad on the brake line not my idea of professionalism.
PS. The control valve stem: how is it sealed? What special mechanism to see that the valve does not operate when not wanted.
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1) Valid point - my research is limited to internet read up and absolutely no historical data hands on or expert help. Thats why I say I Solely stand behind my creations and destructions. If anyone can perfect the things I do (on juggad basis) into a professional work - thats what I want!
2) Agreed, again just expressing my wish to be creative, if end ups destructive, I will take sole blame for it.
3) Not sure I understand - meaning? what if someone closes the valve while in parking and I drive off with only rear brakes operational? Nothing to stop it except my regular checks before I start/move the vehicle.
3a) If you meant - what will prevent the valve from closing itself aka failing (without me closing the lever) - answer is nothing to stop it currently...
^^^
3) How is the rod which connects the lever outside to the ball inside sealed to prevent brake fluid leakage.
What holds the operating mode in place? Just friction.
Regards
Sutripta
Yes, Only friction as far as I know. At time of purchase i visually checked from sides to see what a ball valve is, there is no spring mechanism or other majorly complicated mech inside.
^^^
Then at least a mechanical detent/ lock.
My option would be fiddle brakes.
The 'professionals' approach would be added software in the ABS system.
Regards
Sutripta
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