Required Information on Tata 4x4 systems

memo45_m · 15th June 2009, 12:03

This is a shout out to all the knowledgeable in the 4x4 section, does any one have information, or technical details on the TATA 4x4 systems on both the Safari, TL's and the Xenon. would be helpful in my upcoming project for the Xenon.

Slightly OT, but any info on the Xenon or TL suspensions, because I am looking at lifting the xenon and putting bigger tires, so help need on the same.

Thanking you all in advance.

4x4addict · 15th June 2009, 17:22

Is there something specific that you are looking for? Essentially it is a regular Part-Time 4WD system with a Borg Warner Electric T-case.

The front suspension is a Torsion Bar set up which can be raised easily by adjusting the torsion bars. I have posted elsewhere how to do this. The rear of the Xenon is leaf spring so you can go for a shackle lift or longer springs.

But, I think the Xenon has huge wheel arches and you should be able to install 31 inch tires without any rubbing of the insides. Try this first. This way you get the added GC without any major mods that might affect handling.

memo45_m · 15th June 2009, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Is there something specific that you are looking for? Essentially it is a regular Part-Time 4WD system with a Borg Warner Electric T-case.

The front suspension is a Torsion Bar set up which can be raised easily by adjusting the torsion bars. I have posted elsewhere how to do this. The rear of the Xenon is leaf spring so you can go for a shackle lift or longer springs.

But, I think the Xenon has huge wheel arches and you should be able to install 31 inch tires without any rubbing of the insides. Try this first. This way you get the added GC without any major mods that might affect handling.

Yes it is the same part-time 4wd system with a Borg Warner electric T-case, with a Dana 44 diff from what I know, the only reason to do it is to increse the GC of the xenon and get it a even meaner look, but also i am not too keen on loosing it load carrying capacity as the vehicle will be used for rally service, nd other load carrying work in and around home and my farm, yes I do make use of the 4x4 almost once a week, mostly in the farm and around the back waters of TG halli dam.

jkdas · 15th June 2009, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I

But, I think the Xenon has huge wheel arches and you should be able to install 31 inch tires without any rubbing of the insides. Try this first. This way you get the added GC without any major mods that might affect handling.

Twenty One right?

OT, memo; time to update your thread with pix.

And you still on OE tyres?

4x4addict · 16th June 2009, 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkdas

Twenty One right?

No. I meant 31 inch tires. 21 is smaller than the stock tire which should be about 27 to 28 inches.

hemanthisgreat · 16th June 2009, 09:19

O.T: Memo whatever happened with your issue with Concorde regarding your Xenon.

'72 Bullet · 16th June 2009, 12:30

Yeah, it is Torsion bar sprung and IFS (which no one mentioned). Don't know how strong the axle shafts are in this case, putting on larger tyres may just make it that much easier to snap them (another weak-point would be the CV joints, which will be stressed more than usual). If they're not for heavy off-road use, it shouldn't make a big difference though.

4x4addict · 16th June 2009, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by '72 Bullet

Yeah, it is Torsion bar sprung and IFS (which no one mentioned). Don't know how strong the axle shafts are in this case, putting on larger tyres may just make it that much easier to snap them (another weak-point would be the CV joints, which will be stressed more than usual). If they're not for heavy off-road use, it shouldn't make a big difference though.

You are right. The front drive shaft is a weak link. But, the Tata Safari club in italy has been running 31s with no issues. However Max ( club president/founder) emailed me saying that the front axles are not strong enough for lockers and with lockers they will most likely snap. He has done some fairly difficult trails with 31 inch mud terrains so this is the easiest way to get some ground clearance.

'72 Bullet · 16th June 2009, 21:07

@4x4addict

So true. Lockers would snap the shafts easily.

In my opinion, this would also depend on the usage and terrain that the vehicle is expected to tackle. The half-shafts will be more likely to break on rocky terrain as opposed to mud/sand (soft surfaces with more 'give')

It'll be great for long journeys (read as good highway manners with a modicum of comfort), with occasional off-road use. The stresses developed while driving on rocks etc may snap them. Another thing to avoid is jumps etc. (despite the titillating safari advertisement).

Do you think it's possible to upgrade to stranger axles and CV joints? or is it possible to heat-treat the shafts to strengthen them?

memo45_m · 22nd July 2009, 23:01

I am back home and decided to spend some time with the Xenon, and wake up to see the left front punncutred, so take the car the my alingment and tyre shop to get the flat fixed and do the alingment, but then I get there I have to wait as there were quite a few customers and there was a sumo on the rack so get down into the pit and start to look at the front suspension of the sumo and my head mech walks down into the pit and askes "so what's on your mind today, what you planning on doing to the truck." and all I can tell him is that the front is too low and it bottems out at a lot of place and it is not even better than my sx4 as I use both the cars the access the back waters of the TG dam, so the point I am comming here to is the front suspension is too soft which is good but it just bottoms the car every place and even the approch angle of the xenon is not quite good considering its a 4x4.
Then after a good two hours of waiting I get the xenon up on the rack do the visual check of the underboby and the skid plae has already quite a few scratches so does the transfer case guard, so my head mech takes a look at the suspension setup and says no problen the front hight can be raised up to 2", and he says let's stick to an inch for saftey reasons as loading the torision bar is quite risky speciall is anything in the assembly is to snap and then he gets to work, now the car is up an whole inch and the usual places it bottmed out, are history.

Alfa_Kilo · 22nd July 2009, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by memo45_m

I am back home and decided to spend some time with the Xenon, and wake up to see the left front punncutred, so take the car the my alingment and tyre shop to get the flat fixed and do the alingment, but then I get there I have to wait as there were quite a few customers and there was a sumo on the rack so get down into the pit and start to look at the front suspension of the sumo and my head mech walks down into the pit and askes "so what's on your mind today, what you planning on doing to the truck." and all I can tell him is that the front is too low and it bottems out at a lot of place and it is not even better than my sx4 as I use both the cars the access the back waters of the TG dam, so the point I am comming here to is the front suspension is too soft which is good but it just bottoms the car every place and even the approch angle of the xenon is not quite good considering its a 4x4.
Then after a good two hours of waiting I get the xenon up on the rack do the visual check of the underboby and the skid plae has already quite a few scratches so does the transfer case guard, so my head mech takes a look at the suspension setup and says no problen the front hight can be raised up to 2", and he says let's stick to an inch for saftey reasons as loading the torision bar is quite risky speciall is anything in the assembly is to snap and then he gets to work, now the car is up an whole inch and the usual places it bottmed out, are history.

Changing the ride height will also change camber of the front wheels. Get the camber readjusted to preserve the tyres.

Ignazio · 23rd July 2009, 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfa_Kilo

Changing the ride height will also change camber of the front wheels. Get the camber readjusted to preserve the tyres.

True! My TL is 2", probably a bit more with upper A arm ball joint flip.
Realligned, new camber and is super!

Ciao

Ignazio

condor · 23rd July 2009, 11:13

Quote:

4x4addict

: .. you should be able to install 31 inch tires without any rubbing of the insides.
4x4addict

: No. I meant 31 inch tires. 21 is smaller than the stock tire which should be about 27 to 28 inches.

What's the basis of measurement ?

The stock is R16. Do you want him to try the R31's & convert it to running on stillettoes ? Or are you refering to the 31x cross-section ?

Either way - R31 or 31x x-section - looks a mistake.

Samurai · 23rd July 2009, 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by condor

The stock is R16. Do you want him to try the R31's & convert it to running on stillettoes ? Or are you refering to the 31x cross-section ?
Either way - R31 or 31x x-section - looks a mistake.

Yikes! In this section when somebody says 31 inch tyres, they don't mean R31.

They mean the diameter of the tyre.

4x4addict · 24th July 2009, 10:10

Condor:

I meant 31x10.5x15.

15th June 2009, 12:03	#1
memo45_m BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 299 Thanked: 70 Times View My Garage	Required Information on Tata 4x4 systems This is a shout out to all the knowledgeable in the 4x4 section, does any one have information, or technical details on the TATA 4x4 systems on both the Safari, TL's and the Xenon. would be helpful in my upcoming project for the Xenon. Slightly OT, but any info on the Xenon or TL suspensions, because I am looking at lifting the xenon and putting bigger tires, so help need on the same. Thanking you all in advance.
	() Thanks

15th June 2009, 17:22	#2
4x4addict Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 4,483 Thanked: 4,532 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (5)	Is there something specific that you are looking for? Essentially it is a regular Part-Time 4WD system with a Borg Warner Electric T-case. The front suspension is a Torsion Bar set up which can be raised easily by adjusting the torsion bars. I have posted elsewhere how to do this. The rear of the Xenon is leaf spring so you can go for a shackle lift or longer springs. But, I think the Xenon has huge wheel arches and you should be able to install 31 inch tires without any rubbing of the insides. Try this first. This way you get the added GC without any major mods that might affect handling.
	() Thanks

16th June 2009, 09:19	#6
hemanthisgreat BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 594 Thanked: 50 Times View My Garage	O.T: Memo whatever happened with your issue with Concorde regarding your Xenon.
	() Thanks

16th June 2009, 12:30	#7
'72 Bullet BHPian Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Semi-nomadic Posts: 143 Thanked: 11 Times	Ifs Yeah, it is Torsion bar sprung and IFS (which no one mentioned). Don't know how strong the axle shafts are in this case, putting on larger tyres may just make it that much easier to snap them (another weak-point would be the CV joints, which will be stressed more than usual). If they're not for heavy off-road use, it shouldn't make a big difference though.
	() Thanks

16th June 2009, 21:07	#9
'72 Bullet BHPian Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Semi-nomadic Posts: 143 Thanked: 11 Times	@4x4addict So true. Lockers would snap the shafts easily. In my opinion, this would also depend on the usage and terrain that the vehicle is expected to tackle. The half-shafts will be more likely to break on rocky terrain as opposed to mud/sand (soft surfaces with more 'give') It'll be great for long journeys (read as good highway manners with a modicum of comfort), with occasional off-road use. The stresses developed while driving on rocks etc may snap them. Another thing to avoid is jumps etc. (despite the titillating safari advertisement). Do you think it's possible to upgrade to stranger axles and CV joints? or is it possible to heat-treat the shafts to strengthen them?
	() Thanks

22nd July 2009, 23:01	#10
memo45_m BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 299 Thanked: 70 Times View My Garage	I am back home and decided to spend some time with the Xenon, and wake up to see the left front punncutred, so take the car the my alingment and tyre shop to get the flat fixed and do the alingment, but then I get there I have to wait as there were quite a few customers and there was a sumo on the rack so get down into the pit and start to look at the front suspension of the sumo and my head mech walks down into the pit and askes "so what's on your mind today, what you planning on doing to the truck." and all I can tell him is that the front is too low and it bottems out at a lot of place and it is not even better than my sx4 as I use both the cars the access the back waters of the TG dam, so the point I am comming here to is the front suspension is too soft which is good but it just bottoms the car every place and even the approch angle of the xenon is not quite good considering its a 4x4. Then after a good two hours of waiting I get the xenon up on the rack do the visual check of the underboby and the skid plae has already quite a few scratches so does the transfer case guard, so my head mech takes a look at the suspension setup and says no problen the front hight can be raised up to 2", and he says let's stick to an inch for saftey reasons as loading the torision bar is quite risky speciall is anything in the assembly is to snap and then he gets to work, now the car is up an whole inch and the usual places it bottmed out, are history.
	() Thanks

24th July 2009, 10:10	#15
4x4addict Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 4,483 Thanked: 4,532 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (5)	Condor: I meant 31x10.5x15.
	() Thanks