[yamaniac]

Originally Posted by codelust

That's an easy one - A Scorpio :-)

I would never call a scorpio as an off roader, But infact a soft roader. With so many electrical glitches witnessed during the OTR's on a scorpio, its best kept in the car porch, waxed and polished.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by yamaniac

My mm540 has better breaks in-spite being 20 years old. Its solid built. Has a terrible body roll, What kind of off road vehicle has Such a terrible body roll? That gives you a feeling that it would topple?

Dear yamaniac - I do not agree to your first statement that the MM540 has better brakes than Thar CRDe. I am saying this with conviction as basic calculations of braking effort v/s deceleration say so. That does not mean that Thar CRDe brakes are good to you as a customer. I have clarified before also and I am clarifying now again that the original proposal had twin pot calipers but they were knocked down to get a saving of 800 rupees per car as the single pot caliper was also meeting the CMVR. When we raised the issue of pedal feel v/s deceleration, we were not even heard, let alone being shot down! This is true and I have no hesitancy in stating so. Serves them right now!

Body roll will be very much in control and the vehicle will be delightful to drive only if all suspension parameters are within drawing specifications. I presume your BIL's vehicle runs on production Bridgestone 235/70R16 tires on steel wheels as rolled out of the plant. One main reason of body roll is disturbance of set value of the torsion bar preload. I am physically seeing this syndrome in around 50% of the vehicles that are on the road. I don't need instrumentation, my eyes are enough! Nowadays I just quietly smile. Please check if your BIL's vehicle is as per drawing specification. This is mentioned in the data provided to all dealers, and it is supposed to be used by them to solve this customer issue. I cannot control the operations at dealerships, there is a process in place, it must deliver the desired result. . You will appreciate why I have put this smiley here!

Dear Codelust - yes, I admit that at this price, I do not find value enough to buy the vehicle. Further, I just don't have that kind of money to spend, so I am patiently waiting. In the next two years or so, a carefully used vehicle should become affordable to me. Then I will buy it and make it exactly the way I want. My vehicle will look like the one in this photograph, half body with the spare wheels (two of them) mounted horizontally in the platform area. Now you know why I did the Thar project. This is the umbilical cord that I am talking about! .

This is the MM540 of my dear friends from Nasik, Bhaskar Patwardhan / Pradeep Mhaskar, from the "Great Desert Himalaya" (GDH) Rally. If I am not mistaken, this is MH-01-212, its a 1989 Mumbai registration vehicle belonging to marketing Worli, having the F4/134 petrol engine + KMT90 transmission + 4WD. There were two more, BLD4776 with Mitsubishi 4G54 petrol engine and transmission in which Farad Bhathena won the first GDH in 1989 and BLD4769 with F4/134 engine driven by Sunil Shanbhag. Alas, all these legacy vehicles are nowhere to be seen. Nobody even thought of preserving them. So much for "Auto Passion"!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[headers]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Further, I just don't have that kind of money to spend, so I am patiently waiting. In the next two years or so, a carefully used vehicle should become affordable to me. Then I will buy it and make it exactly the way I want.

My dear DB,

Now, Great minds think alike and am glad you are in the queue behind me

[Rajith]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear yamaniac - I am clarifying now again that the original proposal had twin pot calipers but they were knocked down to get a saving of 800 rupees per car as the single pot caliper was also meeting the CMVR. When we raised the issue of pedal feel v/s deceleration, we were not even heard, let alone being shot down! This is true and I have no hesitancy in stating so. Serves them right now!

Behram Dhabhar

Thanks BD sir for giving us a clear answer about breaks.One has to be spend @50000/-rs to get entire break set up changed. Whom ever has taken the above call of putting single caliper and saving 800/Rs in the BOM per vehicle has to be disqualified from working in any industry/business of this universe and to be considered as INSANE.

[vivekgk]

Originally Posted by Parm

Offroad mean machine is meant for OFFROAD and not for cruising! buy a Thar for cruising and turning heads!

Parm, from what I see on the forum, the Thar manages to do well off-road, while being able to turn heads while cruising. You can't say the same thing about a purpose-built off-road MM550. You've proven my original point.

Originally Posted by Parm

Whats an offroad vehicle got to do with ride?

Again, the Thar manages to be drivable on-road and off-road.

Originally Posted by Parm

For better NVH levels buy a Range Rover!

That's a rather childish response, isn't it? Not to mention rude and arrogant. If a potential Thar buyer could afford a Range Rover, he wouldn't be a potential Thar buyer.

Originally Posted by Parm

While offroading one doesnt go at 70kph and dont change lanes!

Obviously. In case it wasn't clear, I was referring to the point Mr BD made before, about trying a lane change in an off-roader.

Originally Posted by Parm

Thats a stupid Question for Shahid, he is got a five star rating in offroading segment.

Good to know. So he didn't manage to get the perfect jeep in one go either. I'm guessing it took a lot of time, effort and money to gain that expertise.

I hope you understand what I'm getting at here. The Thar is a more complete vehicle than a purpose built off-roader, for which you would need a good bit of disposable income. Thar is a vehicle that you can buy from a showroom, and pay off in EMIs. It's a better choice for someone who wants a taste of the off-road experience, without having to maintain a whole separate vehicle for regular use. Not many team-bhpians have that kind of a luxury.

I'm not knocking you guys who have built great custom jeeps. I read every single one of the jeep build threads in the 4x4 section. I really wish I had the time and money to build a Jeep Wrangler replica of my own. The title of this thread is "Why I won't buy a Thar". I'm trying to find out who would buy the Thar, and why. Otherwise, it would be a simple Thar bashing thread like the many other Thar threads.

There's one thing that I haven't seen in the 4x4 section. And that is someone trying to build a Thar the way it supposedly should have been. For all this talk about how Mahindra has got it all wrong, you'd think someone would know to do it right.

Originally Posted by Parm

While test driving the Thar, salesman told "Sir this is a 4x4 vehicle, with 4x4 steering and 4x4 Engine"!

Not surprising. With what sales staff are paid at showrooms, it's a wonder they put in the effort to learn as much as they do. My experience was a lot better though. At Trivandrum, the salesperson knew enough to call the Thar a 'lifestyle' vehicle. He made it quite clear that the Thar was about image more than anything else, and agreed that other Mahindra SUVs were much better value.

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by R32_GTR

An old motorcycle advertisement comes to mind - All I want from M&M is a vehicle where i can just "Fill it, Shut it and Forget it " I don't think this is asking for too much .

Originally Posted by Sudarshan

Agree absolutely. No need to hold a spanner if one has resources to get it done. Also DIY isn't everyone's piece of cake ( Sorry for the attitude ).

Originally Posted by vivekgk

Good to know. So he didn't manage to get the perfect jeep in one go either. I'm guessing it took a lot of time, effort and money to gain that expertise.

I see a lots of brain storming here on this thread , good food for thought too.

But then I see this

There's one thing that I haven't seen in the 4x4 section. And that is someone trying to build a Thar the way it supposedly should have been. For all this talk about how Mahindra has got it all wrong, you'd think someone would know to do it right.

Hey, this is too perfect All I can say that, it cant be bought by money, it takes years to develop, not everyone's job. Yet everyone is free to do it .

sudarshan

[gthang]

Originally Posted by vivekgk

I'm not knocking you guys who have built great custom jeeps. I read every single one of the jeep build threads in the 4x4 section.

There's one thing that I haven't seen in the 4x4 section. And that is someone trying to build a Thar the way it supposedly should have been. For all this talk about how Mahindra has got it all wrong, you'd think someone would know to do it right.

Don't know exactly where you have been looking.

There are countless ownership threads where owners have tried several options to spruce up the interior, make & import hardtops, Fix floppy highly engineered canopies, lots of trial and error on A/C fitment, etc., etc.

And for the hardcore builders, there is this and others:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...olid-axle.html

Please go through these threads and see the myriad of difficulties faced by them. Makes the OP's point of choosing MM5xx as a better build option more sense.

So, other than satisfy posers with the Orijinaal "Jeep" look, whose lineage is suspect anyways with some mention of the dies having coming from Korea rather than the USA, does the Thar really help anyone but M&M?

Real lifestyle users with families have to sacrifice their delicate one's safety to fulfill lifestyle dreams.
Real offroaders have to risk it with suspect build quality and reliability issues to confidently take it offroad alone.

So, Mr. DB is happy, Mr. AM is happy, fanboys are happy, and life goes on.

Cheers.

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

... so I am patiently waiting. In the next two years or so, a carefully used vehicle should become affordable to me.

If I recall correctly you were waiting for some accursed fool to pay the tax for you....what color do you want me to paint the half-cap?

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

If I recall correctly you were waiting for some accursed fool to pay the tax for you. What color do you want me to paint the half-cap?

Dear Ken - not only the tax, the EMI also! Why are you asking the second question? You want to sell your vehicle? .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[DirtyDan]

Not selling it right away but I got it as an interim solution. I may build out a MM550/540 or a Thar DI to the way I want it. Or something else may pop up on the market. If so, I may sell my Thar CRDe in about 1.5 years or so.

Problems encountered so far after 5 weeks and 5000km:

Dome light works half-arsed.

One, some, of my brakes stick a bit, going to pull the wheels today and look around.

Low end grunt ain't there and this can be dangerous on the steep hills and switchbacks here. I think maybe the boys who mapped the ECU were flatlanders and just flat screwed this up and didn't test enough..OR..they ran into CMVR restrictions. I can live with it but I don't like it much.

Plus side: handles beautifully and has a great turning radius.
has power to pass

I am up here in the boonies and I am leary about maintaining this Thar CRDe long term. There is no support close by that I trust.

[manasm]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Low end grunt ain't there and this can be dangerous on the steep hills and switchbacks here. I think maybe the boys who mapped the ECU were flatlanders and just flat screwed this up and didn't test enough..OR..they ran into CMVR restrictions. I can live with it but I don't like it much.

Just did a trip to Kodaikanal in the Thar, and man did it struggle on some up hills! Is there any way to recalibrate when the turbo kicks in? There were times when the engine just shut off when I had the gas pedal floored and released the clutch on a steep incline. It just did not rev properly. Even if I had the RPMs are 2000, and released the clutch with the pedal stamped to the ground, the engine would just not move the vehicle.

[jeeva]

Originally Posted by manasm

Just did a trip to Kodaikanal in the Thar, and man did it struggle on some up hills! Is there any way to recalibrate when the turbo kicks in? There were times when the engine just shut off when I had the gas pedal floored and released the clutch on a steep incline. It just did not rev properly. Even if I had the RPMs are 2000, and released the clutch with the pedal stamped to the ground, the engine would just not move the vehicle.

Was your Thar too remapped along with the exhaust re-route, to stop the issue of smoke/diesel fumes/smell from entering the cabin?

[manasm]

Originally Posted by jeeva

Was your Thar too remapped along with the exhaust re-route, to stop the issue of smoke/diesel fumes/smell from entering the cabin?

I believe it was remapped, but did not change the exhaust since I have a HT and there was no smells in the vehicle.

[pvrajan]

Originally Posted by manasm

Just did a trip to Kodaikanal in the Thar, and man did it struggle on some up hills! Is there any way to recalibrate when the turbo kicks in? There were times when the engine just shut off when I had the gas pedal floored and released the clutch on a steep incline. It just did not rev properly. Even if I had the RPMs are 2000, and released the clutch with the pedal stamped to the ground, the engine would just not move the vehicle.

This is an issue for the latest thar crde as well.

If there is a steep Tarmac, it's trouble as 4x4 engaged will break things, so cannot use low range.

The only way is to use momentum.

Dear behram, with put going to the super thar that no one will ever see or get, without involving cmvr, can anything be done for existing users ?

[headers]

Originally Posted by pvrajan

This is an issue for the latest thar crde as well.

If there is a steep Tarmac, it's trouble as 4x4 engaged will break things, so cannot use low range.

anything be done for existing users ?

4x4 high can be used..it should not matter for 100m or so..


And I doubt the remap having anything to do with power and torque curve characteristic at all..