[desertfox]

This is the Jebel Ali port stockyard near RO 16. Next to this is the Mitsubishi stockyards. There are export designated vehicles pending trans shipment. The local distributor is Al Tayar Automobiles.

[tatsago]

I know am stepping a little of the topic but there is another option coming our way in the from of the Jeep Wranglers

The JKs have a lot more creature comfort and the cheapest Wrangler is $22,295. I am hoping FIAT can at least start a CKD assembly line for the Wranglers in India instead of importing it at 35Lakhs.


http://www.business-standard.com/art...1500574_1.html


My two cents

- Rattan

[KL54]

Land Rover's plans to replace the ageing Defender with a more rugged vehicle have been scrapped

The reason for the shelving is said to be the poor financial health of TML:

Autocar understands that the decision to shake up plans to replace the Defender has been prompted, at least in part, by the fact that the health of the automotive division of parent company Tata is in question.

After suffering a sales humiliation with the super-budget Nano, the company has also seen its new Aria SUV massively undershoot sales expectations.

New car sales in India have gone into freefall in the past six months. Without Tata Motors making significant sales progress, any planned co-operation with Jaguar Land Rover on a back-to-basics Defender is 
not financially viable.

There goes our closest dream of owning a LR product!

[TheARUN]

This would be the one vehicle that you would only buy with your heart and never with your mind. I don't know why TATA cannot ship the old dies after 2014 and keep the vehicle alive here, hell they can even sell it as scrap to China and they will keep making this wonderful vehicle for decades, this would then become a Chinese product that I would gladly buy ;-)

[FourWheelDrift]

Nice thread, excellent arguments.

Decided to visit the LR UK website and downloaded the brochure for the Defender.

Location : http://landrover.tagworldwide.com/de..._130_en_GB.php

I think there is a steady market for the Defender (both 90 and 110 series Station Wagon), at a certain price point, here in India. Without question, the volumes will be higher at lower price points.

Bringing the vehicle in as a CBU, is probably the worst case scenario, and will not result in an attractive price point.

However, if one were to take advantage of CKD rules, some localisation of components, and the following suggestions, perhaps a sensible price point could be achieved.

The LR Defender 90 Station Wagon is 4040 mm (INCLUSIVE of the rear spare wheel, according to the visual in the brochure) in overall length. If the width of the rear spare wheel were to be subtracted, the overall length of the vehicle is already under 4m ... which is the way overall length is measured by Indian regulations (e.g. Ford EcoSport).

The current powertrain uses the Ford Transit's 2.2 litre common rail turbo diesel (120 PS / 360 Nm) and a 6 speed manual gearbox mated to a 2 speed transfer case.

To avail of Indian excise benefits (not taking into account the recent amendment which also requires a ground clearance of < 170mm), the engine will need to have a capacity of less than 1.5 litres.

As I understand, TATA Motors has a 1.4 litre CR4 common rail turbo diesel (70 PS, 140 Nm). In comparison with FIAT's 1.3 Multijet (90 PS / 210 Nm) this appears anaemic ... but there may be a way for TML to upgrade the engine to match the Multijet.

Integrating this upgraded engine into the Defender's engine bay, ensuring a proper match with the transmission and electronics should not be beyond the capabilities of LR.

Understandably, the 1.4 litre's upgraded 90 PS / 210 Nm may not be as good as the 2.2 litre's 120 PS / 360 Nm, in moving the Defender 90's kerb weight of 1,740 kg (which should come down a fair bit with the smaller engine !) ... but it should still be able to get around at reasonable pace while being able to power the vehicle adequately off-road.

With all of these measures in place, I believe a Defender 90 <1.5 litre vehicle could be sold at an attractive price here.

What say ye ?

FourWheelDrift

[smsrini]

Originally Posted by FourWheelDrift

Nice thread, excellent arguments.

I think there is a steady market for the Defender (both 90 and 110 series Station Wagon), at a certain price point, here in India. Without question, the volumes will be higher at lower price points.

Bringing the vehicle in as a CBU, is probably the worst case scenario, and will not result in an attractive price point.


The current powertrain uses the Ford Transit's 2.2 litre common rail turbo diesel (120 PS / 360 Nm) and a 6 speed manual gearbox mated to a 2 speed transfer case.

As I understand, TATA Motors has a 1.4 litre CR4 common rail turbo diesel (70 PS, 140 Nm). In comparison with FIAT's 1.3 Multijet (90 PS / 210 Nm) this appears anaemic ... but there may be a way for TML to upgrade the engine to match the Multijet.


What say ye ?

FourWheelDrift

Heck, I say get the Defender platform minus the engine & GB, and transplant the 2.2 Dicor + GB from the Safari onto the Defender 90 and sell it at less than 10lacs price range.. there will be enough takers for it, and they can also flog it to the Army.

If they feel that the LR brand image will be compromised, I say build a Marina based body style onto the platform, and call it the Indi-Rover!

Would a certain Mr. DB be interested to explore this option ??

cheers!
Srini

[julupani]

Originally Posted by FourWheelDrift

Nice thread, excellent arguments.

As I understand, TATA Motors has a 1.4 litre CR4 common rail turbo diesel (70 PS, 140 Nm). In comparison with FIAT's 1.3 Multijet (90 PS / 210 Nm) this appears anaemic ... but there may be a way for TML to upgrade the engine to match the Multijet.

What say ye ?

FourWheelDrift

Well, I would definitely love a Defender.

But as far as engine choice goes, a 1.4L engine would just spoil the engine. You want something which gives you low down torque, something which is not possible from such a small engine.

But Tata has quite a few engines in its arsenal which I would love to have so as to save the import cost of the 2.2L Ford engine.

Among Tata engines, I would love to any of these.

1. Tata 497 engine: 3.8L 4cylinder engine, ready to meet BSIV norms. 120hp and a monster 400Nm from as low as 1300rpm. Making it meet NVH norms for cars may be a bit of a challenge though.

2. Tata 497SP engine: 3L 4cylinder engine, also meets BSIV norms. Available in 2 states of tune. First at 100hp, and 300Nm at 1400rpm, and another at 85hp and 250Nm at 1000rpm. The 2nd one is used in the Sumo and should be an easy to put in the Defender.

3. Tata 2.2L Dicor: Extremely refined(compared to the others) and smooth engine taken from the Storme.

[FourWheelDrift]

smsrini and julupani, thanks for your comments.

The only reason for not suggesting an engine larger than 1.5 litres, was to avail of the lower excise duty levied on vehicles < 4m in overall length.

Keeping this theme in mind, I would not be surprised if Mahindra introduces a Thar (3920 mm overall length, 1750 kg kerb weight) with the Quanto's 1.5 litre 3 cylinder engine (100 PS, 240 Nm) which has proved adequate in pushing around the Quanto's 1650 kg kerb weight. This compares favourably with the Thar's current engine which puts out 105 PS, 247 Nm.

Given the above Mahindra Thar soft-top specifications (and known performance on-road and off-road), 90 PS and 210 Nm pushing around < 1740 kg Defender 90 Station Wagon, might be OK after all.

With the right final drive ratio and properly spaced gearbox ratios, performance would not deteriorate to unacceptable levels with the smaller engine, I believe.

Sacrificing a bit of on-road performance, for a LOT lower price, should be an acceptable compromise. I don't think off-road performance will suffer much, with the right gearing.

Do you agree ?

Cheers,

FourWheelDrift

[khoj]

IIRC, the spare wheel's dimension is not included in considering the overall length of the vehicle for the under 4 meter excise benefit rule to apply.

Originally Posted by FourWheelDrift

The LR Defender 90 Station Wagon is 4040 mm (INCLUSIVE of the rear spare wheel, according to the visual in the brochure) in overall length. If the width of the rear spare wheel were to be subtracted, the overall length of the vehicle is already under 4m ... which is the way overall length is measured by Indian regulations (e.g. Ford EcoSport)

[gautam99]

would be great to see the classic defender in India; it would at least create some halo around the products and bring back enthusiasts to the JLR showrooms, which are now only a luxury haven even if the products are capable - very capable. i would put my money down for a correctly priced one immediately