[Thar4x4]

Originally Posted by GoSlow

An internal roll cage inside a Hard Top will not save the hard top in event of a roll. A cracked FRP hard top may mean a huge repair bill that is if it can be repaired to the same structural rigidity and shape. How do you plan to over come this? Although, I prefer internal roll cage as well because they seem to be stronger. Hence, the confusion. BTW, is the hard top insurable? Has anyone insured their HT?

If your are using the Jeep for serious off-roading then yes external roll cage is required for security of HT as well as occupant however if you are using the Jeep for occasional off-roading and more for daily commute then internal roll cage will be more sensible considering parking space, basement/underground entires. I use my Jeep for daily commute and I pass through 2/3 narrow space where extra 2/3 inches will surely hit the ceiling.

I have installed SA rollover bar which serves my purpose of security as well as strengthening B pillar.

[manveet]

Originally Posted by Thar4x4

If your are using the Jeep for serious off-roading then yes external roll cage is required for security of HT as well as occupant however if you are using the Jeep for occasional off-roading and more for daily commute then internal roll cage will be more sensible considering parking space, basement/underground entires.

Very well captured perspective.

Originally Posted by Thar4x4

I use my Jeep for daily commute and I pass through 2/3 narrow space where extra 2/3 inches will surely hit the ceiling.

This is correct. The stock Thar is just a few inches short of minimum permissible ceiling height for underground basements.

I am strongly contemplating an external roll cage. But then I use the PA hard top and hence my Thar stands 2-3 inches shorter than stock. So that's another reason to go for the PA HT. Oh, how I love adding my two bits to the existing HT confusion.

Originally Posted by Thar4x4

I have installed SA rollover bar which serves my purpose of security as well as strengthening B pillar.

You forgot to mention, reducing rattle .. provided it is attached to the targa band/ B-pillar.

[desertfox]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear theMAG - you can see the result of the effort. Customers have accepted the product, therefore it is successful. That's all that matters, so thank you. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

I was in Patiala Punjab this week in connection with a shooting tournament. I am amazed to see the number of Thars there and the amount of mods done. They really love their cars in Punjab.

Hard top modifications is one thing - there are numerous soft top modifications there.

Also I saw two outstanding MM550s

[Thar4x4]

Originally Posted by manveet

Very well captured perspective. This is correct. The stock Thar is just a few inches short of minimum permissible ceiling height for underground basements. I am strongly contemplating an external roll cage. But then I use the PA hard top and hence my Thar stands 2-3 inches shorter than stock. So that's another reason to go for the PA HT. Oh, how I love adding my two bits to the existing HT confusion. You forgot to mention, reducing rattle .. provided it is attached to the targa band/ B-pillar.

True HT is big confusion as it is major upgrade and particularly attached to overall look of jeep.

Right, forgot to add that after adding SA roll over bar and attaching it with custom clamps to targa band made a huge difference. Now the door rattle is totally gone and vehicle feels solid.

[GoSlow]

Originally Posted by sjcherian

True the HT wont survive a roll over and will probably require a full replacement. The roll bars are more from the point of ensuring the vehicle doesn't collapse on the occupants if a roll over occurs (god forbid). Also once you are in a rollover you are anyway talking serious repairs and probably a hit to the next years insurance as well.

As for covering the HT in insurance I guess it wont be covered since usually only metal parts have cover.

Not necessarily. I have seen a thar with external roll cage fall on its side, pushed back up, and driven away without any major damage. Just a broken front fender extension.

Originally Posted by Thar4x4

If your are using the Jeep for serious off-roading then yes external roll cage is required for security of HT as well as occupant however if you are using the Jeep for occasional off-roading and more for daily commute then internal roll cage will be more sensible considering parking space, basement/underground entires. I use my Jeep for daily commute and I pass through 2/3 narrow space where extra 2/3 inches will surely hit the ceiling.

I have installed SA rollover bar which serves my purpose of security as well as strengthening B pillar.

I agree. The height may pose a problem. However, I used to drive a Gurkha for almost a year, which is considerably taller than the Thar and did not hit the roof at any underground parking (even the really low ones).

I just feel that I will be really kicking myself if I have to get a new HT which could have been prevented by a external roll cage. A new HT is just toooooooo much cost

[showboat]

Originally Posted by GoSlow

Not necessarily. I have seen a thar with external roll cage fall on its side, pushed back up, and driven away without any major damage. Just a broken front fender extension.

I agree. The height may pose a problem. However, I used to drive a Gurkha for almost a year, which is considerably taller than the Thar and did not hit the roof at any underground parking (even the really low ones).

I just feel that I will be really kicking myself if I have to get a new HT which could have been prevented by a external roll cage. A new HT is just toooooooo much cost

I was thinking along the same lines, but then I actually looked at my planned usage patterns. At most I would be doing one OTR a year, a large amount of time will be semi-offroading (visiting farms, estates, etc which don't have road access), the rest will be normal road driving. In those situations I would have to either do something colossally stupid or be in a major accident to roll my jeep over. So for me it wouldn't make sense to spend extra in the external roll cage just for that highly rare occurrence.

But if you plan on doing serious off-road and rock climbing scenarios where the car has a high chance of rolling it absolutely makes sense to do an external roll bar.

[GoSlow]

Guys I understand that an external roll cage is more required for serious off-roading but isn't the function of a roll cage the same? external or internal? Why get an internal roll cage even if possibility of a roll is very minimal?
This thought leads me to the view that if I am getting a roll cage then why not an external one to protect the HT as well?
Sorry if I am asking the same question over and over again.
I have seen a few 550/540 without roll cages flip sideways but there was no serious damage.

[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by GoSlow

Guys I understand that an external roll cage is more required for serious off-roading but isn't the function of a roll cage the same? external or internal? Why get an internal roll cage even if possibility of a roll is very minimal?
This thought leads me to the view that if I am getting a roll cage then why not an external one to protect the HT as well?
Sorry if I am asking the same question over and over again.
I have seen a few 550/540 without roll cages flip sideways but there was no serious damage.

Ankit Bhai,
You know, offroading is not about speed and specially vehicle's speed during roll over is not more the 2-3 kms/hr.
Imagine a scenario where roll over is a possibility
a) sideways entry/exit to incline/decline
b) rock crawling to any gully, river, ditches
c) extreme articulation during any condition other than what mentioned above

In all above scenario:
a) we keep our vehicles to slowest possible speed i.e. almost try to crawl
b) wear seat belt/helmet
c) ask all occupants to get out of the vehicle
d) mentally prepared for vehicle roll over

i have seen more than 15 topples of MM540/550, CJ3B/CL340, Gypsy, Thar, Gurkha etc... and maximum damage seen is bent fender, broken side mirror, few dents/scratches that's it.
Vehicle roll over on highway at speed above 60 KMPH is a different scenario altogether which you guys should think about more.
Waise bhi, how many thars do EXTREME offroading, may not be more than 4-5% of total sold till now

SHubhendra

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by theMAG

Dear Behram - I am sure you are more than justified to be the proud father of the Thar, however parents also tend to ignore some of the flaws in their kids - which wouldnt be wrong in being presented as constructive feedback by impassive onlookers.

Dear theMAG - thanks for your absolutely spot-on reply. All parents want their kids to excel. It also depends on the "environment" in which the kid sees light of day. That environment may be "articulated by powerful & vested interests" to be "facilitating / neutral / hindering", much to the frustration of the parents, who still need to find and move in the correct direction. Now you may like to interpret what "environment" means in this context. .

I sincerely request you to please read the recent comments in the "official test review" thread. The kid has passed in first class with distinction. In the corporate environment in which this kid is growing by leaps and bounds, it has done much better than so many models on which huge amount of time / money / resources were invested! I think it will be most effective not to say anything further, except one sentence.

The desired result is achieved! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[GoSlow]

Originally Posted by Shubhendra

Ankit Bhai, You know, offroading is not about speed and specially vehicle's speed during roll over is not more the 2-3 kms/hr. Imagine a scenario where roll over is a possibility a) sideways entry/exit to incline/decline b) rock crawling to any gully, river, ditches c) extreme articulation during any condition other than what mentioned above In all above scenario: a) we keep our vehicles to slowest possible speed i.e. almost try to crawl b) wear seat belt/helmet c) ask all occupants to get out of the vehicle d) mentally prepared for vehicle roll over i have seen more than 15 topples of MM540/550, CJ3B/CL340, Gypsy, Thar, Gurkha etc... and maximum damage seen is bent fender, broken side mirror, few dents/scratches that's it. Vehicle roll over on highway at speed above 60 KMPH is a different scenario altogether which you guys should think about more. Waise bhi, how many thars do EXTREME offroading, may not be more than 4-5% of total sold till now SHubhendra

Spot on Shubhendra. Off late there seems to be very high demand for roll cages for off-road, specially in vehicles with B pillars like 540/550, thar, gypsy, etc. it is highly unlikely that the vehicle will turn turtle.
In event of a high speed roll over a regular roll cage is not going to help, in fact it could be hazardous. Only rally spec FIA approved roll cages can take the impact of a high speed roll over.

I not not an extreme off-roader anymore. Those days were when I had my gypsy with diff locks, MTs, etc.

Now it is just the fun of being out there.

[sjcherian]

Originally Posted by Shubhendra

i have seen more than 15 topples of MM540/550, CJ3B/CL340, Gypsy, Thar, Gurkha etc... and maximum damage seen is bent fender, broken side mirror, few dents/scratches that's it.
Vehicle roll over on highway at speed above 60 KMPH is a different scenario altogether which you guys should think about more.
Waise bhi, how many thars do EXTREME offroading, may not be more than 4-5% of total sold till now

SHubhendra

Originally Posted by GoSlow

Spot on Shubhendra. Off late there seems to be very high demand for roll cages for off-road, specially in vehicles with B pillars like 540/550, thar, gypsy, etc. it is highly unlikely that the vehicle will turn turtle.
In event of a high speed roll over a regular roll cage is not going to help, in fact it could be hazardous. Only rally spec FIA approved roll cages can take the impact of a high speed roll over.

I not not an extreme off-roader anymore. Those days were when I had my gypsy with diff locks, MTs, etc.

Now it is just the fun of being out there.

My whole intent for the roll cage was more for the off road usage than for on road use. Again like Shubendra and GoSlow mentioned- I don't think I will do any extreme off road adventures either. So do I really need a roll cage at all ?

[GoSlow]

Originally Posted by sjcherian

My whole intent for the roll cage was more for the off road usage than for on road use. Again like Shubendra and GoSlow mentioned- I don't think I will do any extreme off road adventures either. So do I really need a roll cage at all ?

I guess this is a personal choice more than a requirement. If you have additional cash allocated to the project then you can do pretty much anything.

I am planning to go to Bimbra on the 30th Nov weekend to check out the Hard Tops in person and fix a date for work to be done.

I am also tempted to get Innova seats but my usage is very low so not sure if it will add that much value. But anyway this will happen at a later stage.

[urban legend]

Originally Posted by GoSlow

Spot on Shubhendra. Off late there seems to be very high demand for roll cages for off-road, specially in vehicles with B pillars like 540/550, thar, gypsy, etc. it is highly unlikely that the vehicle will turn turtle.
In event of a high speed roll over a regular roll cage is not going to help, in fact it could be hazardous. Only rally spec FIA approved roll cages can take the impact of a high speed roll over.

I not not an extreme off-roader anymore. Those days were when I had my gypsy with diff locks, MTs, etc.

Now it is just the fun of being out there.

On the topic of roll cages. Usually To reach any otr we have to drive away from the city, usually on national highways. Most of the times the passengers are friends or even kids and families. God forbid if an accident occurs during this drive and the car topples or gets hit by another vehicle, wont a roll cage be life saving? Most of us have soft tops or drive with the top removed. In my opinion a roll cage is always money well spent. The question is which one? Internal or external?
Btw i am in the process of rebuilding my mg413 gypsy and am also trying to source a roll cage in mumbai. Can anyone help me to source a reasonably priced one?

[GoSlow]

I have dropped off my Thar at Bimbra for a FRP Hard Top fitment. Keeping the side facing seats in the rear as is and negotiating on front Innova seats with arm rest. Hope to have the vehicle back by Thursday/Friday.

I am also expecting the Hyderabad Jinnah Leaf springs to arrive early next week.

Interesting times ahead.

Will post pics and updated when I have the vehicle back.

[GoSlow]

The Thar is back after hard top installation. What a transformation. Silent and dust proof. Went for mahindra great escape yesterday with media team. No squeaks or rattles. I am loving the silence. It is like having the best of both worlds... Jeep + SUV.

I have also installed a remote central locking and innova seats with arm rests.

However, there are some issues with the innova seats which need to be resolved, hence not posting pics yet.

Everything done at Bimbra.