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-   -   Fourknotfour | My Black Mahindra Thar CRDe (refreshed edition) | EDIT: Now sold (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-vehicles/175287-fourknotfour-my-black-mahindra-thar-crde-refreshed-edition-edit-now-sold.html)

Fourknotfour- My Black Mahindra Thar Crde Refreshed Edition Ownership

Acquired: Septemter 28th 2015

Kilometers till date 12,500+


Christening: I call it the “fourknotfour” because its SK-01-P-0404

Vehicle: Mahindra & Mahindra Thar Crde Refreshed Version

Variant: NEF TCI 105Bhp CRDe Engine with Manual Shift on the Fly 4WD with Low Ratio with Mechanical Locking Rear Differential with Auto Locking Hubs.

Technical Details:

Engine Displacement, Power & Torque: 2498cc 105 hp @ 3800 rpm with 247 Nm of Torque @ 1.8-2 K rpm
Transmission : 5 Speed Manual with BORGWARNER (Manual Shift) with Low Reduction Gear
Front Axle Full Floating Hypoid Ratio 4.3:1 with Rated Capacity: 1100 kg
Rear Axle: Semi Floating Hypoid Ratio 4.3:1 Rated Capacity: 1700 kg (Mechanical Locking Rear Differential)
Suspension: Independent Front Suspension with Torsion Bar and Stablizer Bar, Rear Semi Elliptical Leaf Spring
Rack & Pinion Power Steering with Minimum Turning Radius of 5.75 m
Ground Clearance=200 mm Approach Angle = 44° Departure Angle =27°
Wheels: P 235/70 R16 Tubeless Tyres on Mahindra Thar Alloys
Brakes: Dual Hydraulic Circuit with Tandem Master Cylinder, Vacuum Assisted Servo with Auto Slack Adjuster with Front 226 mm Disk & Rear 282 mm Drum
Front Track 1445 mm
Rear Track 1346 mm
Overall Length 3920 mm
Overall Width 1726 mm
Wheelbase 2430 mm
Overall Height 1930 mm 1904 mm
New Features: Air Conditioner with Heater & Windshield Demister & New AC Vents


Fuel Efficiency:
City (Hill Station) 7-8 kmpl (depends on traffic and how spirited I drive); Highway (Hill State)10 kmpl without AC ; Highway (Plains) 12-13 kmpl with 100% AC .


Additions & Modifications from Stock:
1. Foglamps: A pair of Hella 500 from Mahindra Adventure bolted on to the bumper itself, complete with wiring harness and turn switch on the Right Hand Stalk (Upgradation from stock) This brings the Foglamp Indicating Light on the Instrument Cluster to Light on when they are in use.
2. Wipers: Changed stock blades into Hella Dynaedge 14 inches. ( I wish I have 3 wipers)
3. Headunit: Sony Single Din with Removable Faceplate. Should have put a double Din.
4. Speakers: A under seat Subwoofer under driver’s seat, and two Sony 6 inches Speakers at the rear in movable wooden boxes.
5. Seating Arrangemet: Rear Bench Seats Removed and Innova 3rd Row Complete Folding Seats Installed with Brackets, Aftermarket Red & Black Seat Covers Stitched . Front Passenger Seat modified with Hinges & Boot Lock for folding mechanism for ingress into back seat. (Details Later). Need of a roll bar for the second row belts- priority list.
6. Central Lock with Remote Locking from Mahindra ASS (R&D Company) [I got a central lock basically for three reasons 1. In order that I don’t have to stretch to open the Passenger door when buckled up if I need to pick someone. 2. Easy to enter during heavy downpour as I don’t have to fiddle with the hole 3. Friends expect a 10+ vehicle to have a central and remote lock!]
7. 4 Sensor Reverse parking Sensor from Mahindra ASS (R&D company) with Distance Display.
8. Alloys from company (wanted to preserve the correct offset)
9. Insect Mesh on front grill from ASS (after a Highway run to Guwahati which resulted in a kg of insects near the intercooler)


What made me buy the Thar.

1. Learnt driving on Cjbs and MM540s , always dreamt of the second lever (4x4)
2. The place where I am (Sikkim) , Thar is the Vehicle here which you can be sure will go anywhere.
3. Finally a refreshed Thar with interiors which I could use it as my only vehicle.
4. Heart over Mind.
5. Alternatives Considered: Scorpio S4 4wd, Force Gurkha 4x4x4 .
6. "When the Jeep Bug Bites, Nothing else can cure it I guess"


Booking Experience:

The vehicle was booked through Sikkim Motors, the sole M&M Dealership in the state somewhere around 2nd half of August with a booking amount of Rs 50,000. This was just around a fortnight after the New Refreshed Edition of the Thar was launched and I had not seen the vehicle in person. They had quoted somewhere around a month to two for delivery. By a week of my delivery , another Thar booked before launch of the refreshed version arrived in the showroom and the sales rep called me to have a look.
It was a Fiery Black the same as I had booked and I got to see it inside out. On that occasion I went ahead with the booking of the Alloy Wheels from them itself.

Delivery & Registration

The vehicle arrived at the last week of September and I was given a call to come and inspect it. Vehicles delivered in Sikkim are all driven from Siliguri the nearest Hub where Cargo Trucks can come, i.e. 120 kms away and odometer at delivery was consistent with that. Recalling it to be a 4x4 , their exclusive range of vehicle they refused to give any free basic accessories.
Payment settled, they discounted insurance by 8000 rupees only when I expressed my desire to get it done elsewhere. Alloys were yet to arrive in that consignment and would take another 2-3 weeks so I left that difference in Insurance money with them.
They performed a small token puja and showed me basic features and tools in the vehicle. A customary click followed and they handed over the vehicle to me. No Diesel Coupons but tank had 1/3 rd fuel roughly 20 litres. Temporary number was affixed on windshield and I had to do the Registration myself.

Knowing someone at the RTO office made it extremely easy and fast to get the Registration and after paying Registration & Toll Tax I drove home with a special 0404 number plate at no extra premium in a day itself.

They have provided an all India 1 year unlimited kilometers warranty with free road side assistance for 1 year. I had the unfortunate opportunity to use this services outside my state on a trip from Meghalaya and they were upto the mark. They say Mahindras service is a hit or a miss, it’s a miss here in my hometown but Siliguri is good
Seat Belts are the only safety devices on board, in need for a structural roll bar at the earliest.

My Usage Pattern:

-This is my primary vehicle although we have another vehicle in the family which my dad uses and I ride my Majikat too.
I drive this to work everyday that is 12 kms both ways and primarily used for touring inside and outside the state.

-Since I had my mind set on this as a Jeep and not a SUV I had no problem with adjusting.


Exterior styling & design of the vehicle is contemporary retro looks and was probably one of the reasons I choose it over the Scorpio which is just too common here.
-The overall build quality is acceptable, fit & finish surprisingly was very good for what I had expected, paint quality over the metallic surfaces are average but over the fender flares are poor and have been constantly chipping away in flakes over the last 6 months.

-The interior design is a much awaited refreshed look with the dashboard now being more visually acceptable as well as functional. The plastic quality is average but ready to take abuse except steering and column stalks which are lifted off from other vehicle. The floor mats provided are of good thickness and weigh considerably. The rear canvas would be ideal if it was insulated like the front cabin. The lockable glovebox which can accommodate quite somethings along with the lockable underseat box is a welcome respite in an open body vehicle.

- Ample of leg space for both the front seats with healthy travel of seats to and fro. Adequate headroom even for a tall adult like me, I wish steering wheel was adjustable for atleast rake if not reach. The rear seat in my case provide adequate leg space and fair headspace for 2-3 adults.The rear seats after modification still allow for a couple of medium sized bags behind it or cabin sized trolleys to fit behind it. Being a short body Jeep with wheel arches useable space is no doubt precious. Thinking of having a small front supra cabin carrier with integrated fog lamps.

The driving position is well suited and the front seats provide very good support, I have driven this for days at end and I can vouch for the position and seat support. Lumbar support is an area of concern for improvement.
The forward visibility is just awesome, the super tall position with a straight windshied and thin A pillar gives very good visibility in the front. But that’s it, rear and side visibility are restrained by the vinyl and the canvas and thick B pillars. Rear visibility is very dangerous, prompted me to install parking sensors when once I couldn’t notice an entire Eon behind me.

- Air conditioner cooling & effectiveness has already been a topic of debate in this forum and elsewhere. People are not willing to believe it has AC, and when I do show them it has many are of the opinion that what good does it do on a softtop, only when we use it their doubts are cleared, but as of late there seems to be some problem with my thermostat and hence not cooling effectively like before.

- Vehicle is relatively noise-free for a 2500 cc Diesel Engine with open softtop. Noises do emanate from the roof or the cross bars or somewhere you don’t know. Tailgate was a problem until the denter in the last service corrected the tiger clamp of the tailgate with a couple of blows from a hammer. Its noise free since.

Driving Experience

The vehicle has been able to live upto my expectations, having being a ease to drive in bumper to bumper hill traffic with an easy foot to crunching miles in the open highways of the Asian Highway 1 to the rough roads of North Sikkim and Sandakpu Darjeeling.

Being a short body and a good turning radius it offers, its relatively easy to drive it in congested spaces and lanes and on narrow hill roads, contary to what it looks like. Many friends of mine have been totally blown away at how easy it handles when they ask me for a drive.

The suspension has been really good in keeping up with rides inside Sikkim especially where roads are more like amalgamation of potholes and rough stretches and culverts. And sometimes I myself get surprised at how easily it handles terrains. I easily gain half an hour in trips which otherwise used to take 3 hours.

The engine has been performing superb with very usable low end torque and driveability in hill city with bumper to bumper traffic is a breeze. Turbo kicks somewhere around 1.7- 2 k and its sweet. The best-part is the undying attitude of a Crde engine when you mistakenly go to a wrong gear it hardly gives up . The gear shift has been an average one with inability to slot into reverse at times with the vehicle completely at a stop. Also false 4th Gear at times even after long usage, increases in new hands.

Other than then haven’t really revved her hard till now. Highway runs also has been awesome with stability and minimal tendency of roll over as compared to a Bolero or a Scorpio. Can easily maintain 100-120 kmph for hours on ends without a sweat with enough grunt left. Coming to the handling of the vehicle, my thar particularly has a comparatively heavy steering as compared to other Crde Thars i have driven, at excessive speeds (read 120 & above) the steering behaves too light to handle. There is a bit of fish tailing of the rear ends which has been occuring more lately if limits of traction are less and its more prominent to Bolero ( another rear wheel drive I have been driving ) . Perhaps the difference in the front and rear track are to blame for the extra slip of rear end.

Braking has substantially improved over the previous generation of the Thar but still miles to go before it comes in par with Scorpio or even Bolero in terms of Pedal Feel. Pedal is just too spongy (not the kind like when there is air in the line ) and drivers shifting from other vehicles suddenly will need to get adjusted. Stoppage power and others are better than old generation. While i always believed that new gen was with Scorpios brake system , realized last time that the calipers and brake pads up front are from Bolero & not Scorpio.

The AC has been awesome on all my plain trips until now when the thermostat knob has been freewheeling. Canopy Noise is livable though i have had many a jugaad of my own including 3M Tapes to candles. The steering is predictable but fishtailing at times isnt. Maybe I am in need of AT Tyres, the HT Tyres do no justice to my style and place of driving.

The Headlamps throw and illumination is just awesome, I just wished the same for the reversing lights, they light just the tail box. Interiors are much livable than the old Thar and I have no complaints.


What I love:
1. The classic retrostyling head turner never get old looks.
2. The sheer power and low end torque, combined with its attitude clearance and four wheel drive ability and the rear auto locking differential (pros and cons of this are there )
3. Short Body and ease of maneuvering in tight spaces unlike other SUVs.
4. Ample Room and no frills interiors.

What I hate:
1. The way it behaves sometimes (Like my Enfield)
2. The wipers and their reach on the windscreen ( The extreme left side a foot of the windscreen is not touched by the blades at all) and the single jet wash nozzle. - (Though Bolero had similiar problem but no it doesnt)
3. The bonnet latch mechanism (I need a helper to open the bonnet while I pull the lever)
4. The directly wired 12 v port and the cabin light.
5. The gear box at times (even the Borg Warner Low Reduction gearbox at times refuses to slot in place)
6. The low set Seat belt height
7. The lack of adjustable steering column.
8. The un-ergonomically designed rear bench seats with inadequate lumbar & thigh support & rear entry. (Solved with new seats)




My Seating Arrangement Modification

Like all our Thars fourknotfour came with standard 2 (1+1) front and 4 (2+2) Side facing benches in the rear. Got it registered as 2+4=6 seater and then the problem starts. Noone was actually willing to stay at my rear benches not even for short trips.

My close friend and an avid traveler himself , Wondering Monk as we call him, had the only privilege of a 1700 km trip to Assam & back on those back benches. And he said this has to go, so it went. Removed both of them and put an 1.5 inch angle bar across and fitted one of the benches horizontally. He approved. But the trip to Meghalaya with him and another to Bhutan with Dad said otherwise.

The bench was too straight and small and was uncomfortable on long journeys and moreover entry exit was a different story altogether. So the search started for something useful and comfortable. Zeroed on installing Innova 3rd row seats and managed to get hold of one in Siliguri. Precision iron work for the clamp to be bolted on floor and 4 supports to be bolted on the wheel arches and the seats were in place. Cost me 10,500 rupees including labour from Rupon Automobiles Siliguri and they did a good work. Now the seats folded back down and released and went to the sides making the entire back empty. Did a couple of trips this way but again entry exit was a bit problematic from rear. As I had to open canvas , open tailgate and fold seats in two stage.

So I thought of making the front foldable like in Gypsy 2 door. This was done by first removing the entire front passenger seat from the tool box, removed the two mounting brackets and customized one horizontal bracket from high tensile steel , welded a tiger clamp and on the front used two heavy hinges. Hinges were sourced from the tailgate of a bolero pickup. A Omni boot lock was taken and fixed onto the tool box through a steel plate and 4 bolts. And voila it was done. To gain access the seats has to be slide forward first, then the lock released and seat folds ahead creating space for entry. No need to fold seat in the middle.

The only drawback I found was the seat couldn’t be folded with head restrained at up position, it hits the crossbar, so head restraint is fixed at lowest position.


Niggles Until Now

1. Major Wiring Fault – basically a short circuit in Indicator wiring which my local ASS failed or decided not to look for rather bypassing it. Caused a major shutdown and needed Roadside Assistance and Service during a multi state trip to Assam. Isolated & Fixed by Outstation ASS
2. Improper Wiring of Fog lamps by local ASS , fixed by outstation ASS.
3. Inability of the Auto Locking Hubs to unlock by standard procedure at times resulting in having to open front Hubs and refix it.
4. Thermostat Knob is Freewheeling. I don’t know if it works or not also.
5. The 4WD Sensor switch for Instrument cluster went kaput. Local ASS hasn’t been able to source one till now for replacement under warranty. Previously indicator used to be always on. Now its always Off. It actually doesn’t matter. Everytime someone else drives my vehicle in my absence I look at the short lever.
6. Water Ingress during Rain & Washing in Front passenger Footwell. I always thought the roof leaks but one fine day found the leak on the seal below the front windshield area, reported and fixed by local ASS.
7. The way it devours coolant and the unavailability of this Purple coolant in my State
8. The fuel meter – it has a mind of its own. This one too actually doesn’t matter, I work it out by kilometers.
9. Replacement of Starter Bandage under warranty from local ASS for startup cranking problem
9. Need to figure out a way of keeping the Rear Flap snug to prevent Dust Ingress. 3 M Tapes have helped to a extent.

Hi doc,

Wonderful to read your ownership of your Thar. Loved reading every bit of it and looking at the fabulous pictures. Thanks for sharing!

What exactly do you mean by false 4th gear? Do you mean that it does not sometimes slot into 4th?

Wishing you 1000s of happy miles of motoring.

Regards,

Very nice and unbiased review Dr_MNC_SK, wishing you many miles of happiness. The niggle list is quite long considering the age of the vehicle. I had hoped that Mahindra had sorted out all these issues in the refreshed version. One question, did you have to use the MLD in any situation till date?

Ah splendid! Another bad-roading hill-terrain vehicle. The clan is growing larger here at team-bhp. Excellent images help us re-live your experiences.

Although, your niggle list worries me. If most of which was electrical, it would have been fine. Typical Mahindra. But some mechanical bits do worry me. Anyway not to rain on your parade. I would love to hear more about situations where you would use a Mechanical Locking Rear Differential in Sikkim. A feature that is missing in the Gypsy and since I plan to buy a upgrade in a year or so, I would love to hear more. Added thread to favourites. Congratulations and thanks for sharing

Thank you Johy.

False 4th I meant that slotting to 4 from 3 wasn't/isn't smooth at times, I feel 4 is not immediately behind 3 like I have to know where 4 is, else it tries to go into R (which ain't possible) so I get a grrrrrrr sound.

Thank you Black Pearl.

You have been an inspiration here in TBHP for 4X4 enthusiasts.

Yes the MLD comes into play almost everyday. The parking lot of my vehicle is accessible from a steep angled tarmac road from the Highway which if i approach from one direction needs a 3 point turn. So while reversing due to the angle and gradient and slope and effective FWD at that moment one of the rear tyres loses traction, Mechanical Auto Locking Differential comes into play, I regain traction on the other side and reverse in a ziffy without any tyre burnouts.

And also the MLD helped me couple of time getting one rear wheel out of drains without 4x4.

At times though due to sudden activation of MLD while reversing steep tight tractionless spaces, whole vehicle rear gets jolted to opposite side by almost a feet. Scary proposition at those times

Regarding the Niggles, the list is never ending. Its like the Enfield. Sort out one and another crops up. (Not that I am cribbing !) Now I had problem with my AC Knob and they changed it.

Waiting for the handbrake cable and the 4x4 sensor module still. ASS has promised me next week. Planning to drive to Guwahati this week so probably after that.

And I think its time to change my bushings at the rear including the spacer between the leafs. ASS was saying its the same for Bolero but wanted to confirm the same. Any Idea?

Now with heavy monsoons in Gangtok the rear end has started dripping (from the seams where the stitching is done) Thinking of some Jugaad.

Thanks a lot. The reason I asked you is that I seem to facing the same issue. Going from 3rd to 4th, and also from 5th to 4th can be a problem. I get a clank sound, not always, but maybe 4% to 5% of the time. Sometimes I am left "hunting" for the 4th gear - especially at speeds; not sure what is happening. I have raised a service issue at the workshop for this problem.

I am also glad you went with company alloy wheels. I experimented a bit with other alloys (with 0 offset), but did not like the way the handling and especially turning radius became bigger and steering heavier. Only the ride quality improved with bigger alloys. Reverted to steel rims now and things are back to normal. Can take turns very tight and which helps making the passes in the narrow hill roads.

Do buzz me when you are town, via PM is fine. Would be glad to exchange notes.

Wonderful & honest review Mohonish. Your Thar looks amazing. The pictures of your Thar in its Natural habitat are lovely. It seems to be the perfect vehicle for your adventures. You mentioned about the trips to Bhutan, Assam, Arunachal et all. Do pen the travelogues when you get time.

Happy to know that we have a BHPian from Sikkim. Shall arrange a meet next time we are there. Also, I am sure your experience & knowledge about Sikkim will be helpful for all of us.

Regards,

Pawan

Use a 'seam sealer'. Available as Tape or as a liquid tube. The tape is hard to find in India. The tube is usually available with outdoor gear shops. It is used to seal seams in tents etc. Worst case fix, duct tape!

Congratulations on your Jeep and nice to read about a new Thar experience from the north eastern part of the country. It must be a good choice because of the natural terrain out there. However i think you need to start thinking about a hardtop or some good arrangement to tackle the good amount of rainfall the region receives. Also as already expressed by fellow members, the list of issues in your new vehicle does raise some question about any further deterioration of quality standards in the refreshed edition, or you might just have been bit unlucky with the particular piece of product. Have an enjoyable experience ahead.

Dear Doc MNC SK - hello on this thread also! My reply is as follows:
1. The complete leaf spring assemblies, including the shackles and bushes are of Bolero. Oh come on now, the whole damn thing is actually a Bolero VLX in disguise, made to look like a Jeep! You can put Bolero parts without any issue.
2. Thanks. I guess it's time to fire the hell out of the vendor, who is located only 3 kms away from where I work. How dare he make a leaking canopy for my baby! Not even one drop was allowed to come inside the prototype canopy. Maybe its the recent changes made, not done properly! I'll ask him today.

Sikkim is indeed beautiful in the photographs! :).

Dear Kandisa - hello after a long time. Your comment "the list of issues in your new vehicle does raise some questions about any further deterioration of quality standards in the refreshed edition". I would say that the "continuation of issues mentioned by various TeamBHPians with alarming regularity on the forum", is the best yardstick to hazard this answer! There is a silver lining though, the MLD seems to be doing well for itself. MLD is the only real value-add in any case, and all of us must really thank Vinod Nookala for it!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Congrats on your dream Jeep. More miles & smiles.:)

I liked your innovative passenger seat folding mechanism.
The single lock provided is a bit worry for me. It may give up on hard Braking. In particular, if the passenger is heavily build & seat belt is buckled up.

I suggest you to have two locks of the same kind end to end(Tool box side). You could have avoided lock projecting out. They can be easily linked for unlocking.

Bonnet locks are more sturdier & the cable can be used.

Hi Dr_MNC_SK,

Firstly let me congratulate you on your new ride, looks good and your approach towards the mods is exactly what should be the case: Change what is required, test the change and change again. That's the Jeep way of being.

Having had said that, I agree with narendra.vw, It would be safer to have some kind of fail safe on the seat locking mechanism.

Thanks.

Regards,

L.o.R

Thank you antihero,
But I am unable to find the liquid anywhere here. I was thinking if any of those Silicone Gasket Maker Tube could work or M Seal Wet Leak Seal or PVC Sealing Cmpounds available in Hardware could help. I was even wondering if i can just apply Aradlite all over the seams.



Thank you Lifeoffroad & Narendra for the concern. Yes It does look unsafe with only one lock and i will try to put another one when I get time asap. The bonnet locks method looks interesting because of cable i can keep release elsewhere. Thanks for Ideas.

And hightime for me to source some good AT/MT Tyres so that this doesnt happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf_LB3FDFFs

I dont know if its against the rules to make a back to back post but its almost a month since the last post.
Vehicle went in to servicing in ASS Local
Jobs Done:
1. Hand Brake Fixed ( The cable wasnt broken as thought, the lever was at fault, changed under warranty but different colour)
2. Front Bar Bushings and Rear Spacer Bushings changed. (were around 80% life lost) Squeaks from rear side sorted out.
3. All tyres rotated inside out and alignment corrected. Handling back to normal.
4. Horns changed to Stebel Twin Tone.
5. 4wd sensor changed under warranty (Dashlight functioning again)
6. Ordered a tube of sealant from amazon and sealed the leaking roof. holding well until now.