Team-BHP - Mahindra Thar revealed at Autoexpo 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala (Post 1768303)

Edit: Thar in its present form is not that bad vehicle at all. ..

So bring out Thar for now but please upgrade it to proper specs!

Vinu my friend, can you define the proper specs UPGRADE please?

The THAR in its present form does not give anything superior than a stock 540 but for the CRDe motor.

I would want to see what is the showroom spec of the THAR?

1. What seats?
2. What tyres?

etc..

It will be highly misleading to showcase a model and NOT give it to prospective customers.

I would have appreciated what IFS could / could not do IFF they had attempted the Bangalore JT Annual offroad..clap:

What seems to be happening is we dont get answers to basic questions whereas we shoot off on what we like to have..sad isnt it.

The 2WD bolero storm having the same identical engine has FFRA as standard whereas a hardcore 4wd muscle machine does NOT..sad is it not?

Will I pay more for the THAR? Will I buy it? Well..its anybody's guess..

a lots being discussed seriously latey on this thread, some of us are happy and some unhappy.

like some one said earlier, MM has to see the $$ coming to make it a profitable commercial venture (THAR).

since it will be a 'new' model from MM, it will not be a cheap vehicle to buy. so lets see if it will be bought for what its made, mainly for on road car like behaviour (Scorpio).

i think if the price crosses the 6L mark, many people will still go for ex-army restorations to build their own jeeps/Thar at half the price with a live axle in front and other features as per their taste and needs.

I for one would like to have THAR as my 2nd vehicle as my personal vehicle rather than as the only family vehicle.

1. how many of us could/can afford to have it as their personal vehicle?
2. how many of us would be buying it as their only vehicle?
3. how many of us would be using it as a serious offRoad vehicle?

happy Tharing!

So to sum up this thread, we have three camps of people.

One group is the folks who wanted an off the shelf Rubicon edition of the MM540 under 5 lakhs.

The other is people who are disappointed but feel we may have to live with the thar as displayed.

And the third and smallest group is who are totally happy with the current specs.

Guss it is going to be tough one for Mahindra to satisfy all the groups. Let's put it this way, looks like Mayapuri and Chennai mechanics will still be in business for a long time..

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4addict (Post 1768469)

Guss it is going to be tough one for Mahindra to satisfy all the groups. Let's put it this way, looks like Mayapuri and Chennai mechanics will still be in business for a long time..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parm (Post 1768468)

i think if the price crosses the 6L mark, many people will still go for ex-army restorations to build their own jeeps/Thar at half the price with a live axle in front and other features as per their taste and needs.

there you go, atleast we have some agreements when it comes to discussing THAR or self build/restored 4WDs.

Thar: Its basically a vehicle which has a look of a Jeep. Handling of a car, with a modern Diesel Engine.

But overall, it actually falls under a confusing category.. much like Ford Fusion.
Offroaders are complaining about some basic & important mechanicals.
Normal people may look at just as an option
(again it depends on peple who will buy a little expensive vehicle, just because it looks like a Jeep (2WD version))
Others with mix reactions are waiting for the Price to take a final decision.

If it sells well (let it be pls), just hope that it will evolve soon like a Scorpio. multilink SFA + rear FFRA. just another dream thread may be..... :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala (Post 1766809)

Hi Gaurav,

Your post couldnt have been better timedclap:!!! Please post the pics of your project. Later you can start a thread of your own.

Iam eager to see this...really eager to see this!!

With regards

Vinod

Here it is: An improved MM550 with 2.6 scorpio motor, oversized intercooler, K&N filter, free flow muffler, recalibrated injection pump (read that as increased fuel flow), twin electric fans for radiator. 5 speed gbox.

And LIVE AXLES FRONT AND REAR.

If I can do it, why can't M&M?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parm (Post 1768468)

1. how many of us could/can afford to have it as their personal vehicle?
2. how many of us would be buying it as their only vehicle?
3. how many of us would be using it as a serious offRoad vehicle?

I guess, Its not a question of affordability, Its a question of Safety :eek:. Just imagine your axle snapping while you are on a offroad / on road trail. GOD save you :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4addict (Post 1768469)

One group is the folks who wanted an off the shelf Rubicon edition of the MM540 under 5 lakhs.

The other is people who are disappointed but feel we may have to live with the thar as displayed.

And the third and smallest group is who are totally happy with the current specs.

Guss it is going to be tough one for Mahindra to satisfy all the groups.

M&M are smart - They will sell the THAR under 4L and make sure the customisation bit takes another 4. Just Imagine, you could have customised seats, customised Silencers, Custom tyres..oh my!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by offroad_maniac (Post 1768540)

I doubt it will handle like a Car. I doubt a scorpio handles like a car lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by star_aqua (Post 1768224)

some how "the design from the scratch" does not hold right for me. Where have they did most of the R&D in THAR while building it? it was for shortening the scorpio chassis to match the 540 tub. The project seems to be involved only the chassis guys in the development of this THAR and no much involvement from any other dept.

Hi star_aqua that sounds very simple for you isn't it? Can you please answer a few questions as applied to a production MM540:-
1. Was there a MM540 with Air Intake system of a CRDe engine? This includes dirty hoses,intercooler hoses,intercooler,inlet manifold hoses,boost pressure sensors etc etc.
2. Was there a MM540 with modern Load sensing mechanisms required for braking?
3. Was there a MM540 with exhaust system that met Euro IV/BS IV requirements?
4. Was there a MM540 with Fuel system optimised for a modern CRDe?
5. Was there a MM540 with butter smooth GB and TC capable of transmitting 30 kgm of torque?
6. Was there a MM540 with body panels designed for CRDe application?
7. Is there any MM540 which meets EMI/EMC norms?
8. Is there any MM540 which meets BS IV emission norms?
9. Was there a MM540 with a digital cluster and tachometer?
10. Was there a MM540 whose incabin noise would even put the best of diesel cars to shame lol:?
11. Was there a MM540 with propeller shaft for such a different driveline?

These are just a few of them, there are much more things which cannot be disclosed here due to obvious reasons. You just cannot imagine what it is to manufacture and sell a product in todays prevailing Norms and that too with costs in mind. Simple isn't it? And you say the project did not have involvement from any other department? And regarding the THAR team Fazal Saheb has a good insight on what the team comprises of.

Spike:D

P.S. I believe, you must have some idea of what it is to design something and see it through production, its not a joke.

Hi Spike, Since you asked for it, I've attempted some answers!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR (Post 1768604)

Hi star_aqua that sounds very simple for you isn't it? Can you please answer a few questions as applied to a production MM540:-
===========
11. Was there a MM540 with propeller shaft for such a different driveline?
Whats the difference in the prop shaft? Is it thicker?

its not a joke.

I agree it is not a joke - But this forum aint a Joke either sir and we are not idiots trying to tell you something that cannot be done.

Pardon me, but we have been repeatedly telling some basics that seem to be going overhead to you guys in particular. You come up with things and reasons that CANNOT be done.

WHY NOT THINK IT CAN BE DONE and it WILL BE DONE.

Hi Headers, you didn't understand what i am trying to say, i compared the current Thar to a production MM540 that was produced some years back. Now back to the answers:-
1. Can you tell me how to optimise the Air intake system of the current CRDe setup? Also it would be nice to know what is the volumetric efficiency desired in a CRDe setup. Please educate.
2. It would be nice if you could share how the LSPV is calibrated, some figures on the cut in cut off pressures in the lines would be of some help.
4. The fuel system as you said is the heart of a CRDe system, so it is necessary that the right quantity of fuel is injected at the right instant, doesn't it need to be optimised for a vehicle with different weight, rolling resistance, etc etc?
5. Here the point of comparison is with old MM540 and not slick shift gearboxes found on luxury cars/SUVs
6. Dude stamping technology does not change, but the dies and its fixtures change, for anyone who is involved with sheet metals this is the worst nightmare.
7. Leave EMI/EMC as it is.
9. Headers tacho running as you said is not a rocket science, i had mentioned "digital cluster", did older MM540s have a digital cluster?
10. I meant the best diesel cars in that price range, i missed mentioning that:Frustrati
11. Regarding the difference in propeller shaft, i hope you must have understood, "samajhdaar ko ishaara kaafi hota hai". It would be nice if you could share what are the most critical parameters that are considered before zeroing on a propeller shaft.

Spike:D

P.S. Never in any of the posts it has been mentioned that the suggestions put forth are idiotic, if that was the case we would have not been to Avalakonda. Moreover, we know what can and cannot be done, and we know that very well indeed. All your comments are always taken in good sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR (Post 1768778)

Moreover, we know what can and cannot be done, and we know that very well indeed. All your comments are always taken in good sense.

Spare me and our bretheren the Sarcasm SPIKE !!!

Appriciate what you are doing for us all,..but then in an open forum such as this you have to have the patience to hear +tives and handle critical comments as well...I hope we hav'nt brought you guys down to the point of breaking !! Our intentions though were far from it.

Waiting...

Rear Axle Semi-Floating and Full-Floating - Off-Road Magazine

It is now possible to convert some semi-floater rear axles to full-floaters using aftermarket kits. These kits allow an owner to easily upgrade the axleshaft strength of his axle. However, such a kit does not upgrade the differential assembly, so axles with this portion as a weak link would not benefit much from such a conversion.

whatever!!!!!! thought I would share.