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BHPian ![]() | Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? Staying injury free is easier said than done, and with whatever people do there will be some aspect which will cause some injury or at least a pain that irritate us. And there are enough jargons and detailing around various aspects of training intensity measurements and tracking (IF, TSS, HRSS, PowerSS, Fitness/Fatigue/Form, Lactate Threshold etc) and I start by saying for each of its own. As it mostly depends on the equipment we carry and also the type of ride or workout we do, those things vary. For example, HR zone based training is only possible when one uses the HR sensors and understand those to some extent. For a recreational cyclist or a beginner to cycling, I feel the following simple things should help for continuing to enjoy cycling for years to come: 1) Proper bike size and fit: Bike frame size being correct for the riders height. Saddle heights and reach to handlebar are proper and comfortable. 2) Warmups and Cool downs: Doing some stretches for legs, hips and arms before the ride. Go easy during the first 10 minutes at least and then slowly increase to your speed or intensity. And go easy during the last few kms before ending the ride. 3) Cadence and easy pedaling: For most of our rides, best to go easy (bigger ring on the rear and smaller rings on the front). If possible invest in a cadence sensor and get the hang of your comfortable cadence, and with practice we can improve the cadence over time. Dont go hard on pedals. Riding hard alone, you can still get knee pains. 4) Hydration and nutrition during rides: Simply put, drink before you are thirsty, eat before you are hungry. Carry enough water, electrolytes, some snacks and cash to buy things during a ride. 5) Follow Recovery and rest: Our body and muscles need to recover after a work out and it varies based on the workout we just did and our body condition and its abilities. After following a proper recovery and rest after each rides, out body gets tuned to handling these workouts more efficiently. 6) Sleep: Getting a good night sleep will help a lot with rest and recovery 7) Gradual increase of distance, speed: Keep riding and being consistent and regular will help a lot. Increase intensity gradually over weeks and months, not days. 8) RPE (Rate of perceived exertion): Is a good way to monitor intensity levels by feel for people who don't have HR monitors or power meters. Its a widely accepted way of understanding our training intensity in a scale of 1 to 10. And for regular rides, go easy upto RPE 4 or 5/6 at MAX. google about it to know more. 9) Cross training: We tend to ignore the other muscles which are not used while cycling but if they are not strong, they can also cause pain and injury which offset us from riding. A mix of walking, Running, weights, swimming, YOGA and stretches added to the weekly schedule would help in this. regards, narayanang76 |
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| Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? All great points by the experts here, but I want to address this bogey of cross training. Most pro cyclists (almost all I know and have spoken to) do not cross train. It serves no purpose and takes away from the primary sport. The muscles in walking are different to the muscles in a light jog which are different to the muscles in a run which are totally different to the muscles used in cycling. Or swimming for that matter. Or hiking or trekking. And the rate of wear and tear which then leads to risking time and effort/function away from the primary sport is way too high. Most guys you see cross training are triathletes or duathletes or recreational cyclists. A serious cyclist will cycle and will do strength training. If at all for a change of scene or a block of actual de-training, he will run or swim in the off season. Never during the actual race season. There is a ton of literature and good peer reviewed studies on the net about this. Especially the combination of running and cycling. Simply put, running is very very high impact and injury prone an exercise for a cyclist to risk his precious legs, hips and knees on. The ONLY actual scientifically validated benefit of running for a cyclist is the maintenance of bone density in long term cyclists as its a low impact non weight bearing sport and hence most pros over the years start exhibiting lower than normal bone density. But the caveat - this takes over a decade of hard training which equals to 35-40,000 kms a year. Which is more than 99.5% of recreational cyclists would be able to get remotely close to in a lifetime of riding cycles. I realize that many of you may not agree with this, and its totally fine. To each his own. If it works for you by all means keep doing it. Just thought I'd share an alternative 180 degree perspective here. Cheers, Doc Last edited by ebonho : 1st September 2021 at 15:17. |
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| Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? Quote:
My issue was solved after consulting with a sport physio. Turns out my ITB issue was due a collapsed feet arch. Once that was addressed with arch support and simple physio at home never faced the issue again. Hope this helps! | |
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Senior - BHPian ![]() | Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? Quote:
Yes, like you said it is mostly done during off-season, specifically after your Apex event for the season. Some will also include cross training during season, as part of recovery cycle. Runners use cycling as cross training since it essentially gives complete rest to your Feet, has negligible load on calf and lower calf muscles. The key here is always easy, relaxed ride. In fact i used to cross train with Cycle when i was preparing for my Full Marathon in 2018. (That how i picked up cycling) Similarly, Cyclist do easy jog / run primarily to transfer the ease out tight hamstrings / Quads and also to activate lower limbs (Calf / Ankle / Feet). They also keep the distance very less (5 km or less) and avoid any sort of elevation. Relaxed Swim is a universal recovery therapy and can be applied for all sports...unless..you are a competitive swimmer ![]() Water (cold) itself is a recovery booster, just staying in ice cold water will help heal faster. My take is Cross-Training if done right, helps - but only for those who are doing structured, goal paced Training. Since essentially all of it boils down to your intensity of training and load. Last edited by Mi10 : 1st September 2021 at 17:36. | |
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![]() | #20 | |
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| Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? Quote:
Even your Strava profile photo is a running one. ![]() Running does not come naturally to many. Most in fact. And it is very easy to injure yourself running. It takes a LOT of volume in comparison for a cyclist to pick up a similar injury. Take ITBS for example. An excellent one because it is common to both sports. Cheers, Doc | |
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![]() | #21 | ||
Senior - BHPian ![]() | Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? Understand Doc, My intention is never to advocate running as a cross-training for cyclists. My point was around cross-training as a concept. Running / Swimming / Walking / Yoga / Aerobics it doesn't matter as long as it gives a break to your muscles from routine grind to something different and less stressful. Quote:
Cycling is a not an high impact sport like running and hence chances of picking up injury is slightly less. But keeping that aside, if you do an RCA, Injury (in this context) is mostly picked up by doing something without prepping you are body for it. So it doesn't matter what sport you are into. Quote:
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| Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? Quote:
![]() On the topic of cross training, I was also under initial assumption that running and cycling will complement each other in improvements. But in my past 8+ years of doing running and cycling in parallel, I have observed that both are totally independent activities using different set of muscles. For improvements in one, I solely need to focus on that sport with a structured training program. With my current routine of 3 runs ~ 30 kms and 3 rides ~ 120 kms a week, I am able to maintain my form in both sports, but never able to show substantial improvements in either. But, I am happy that I am able to run/ride for I love them both equally ![]() | |
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![]() | #23 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pune
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| Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? Quote:
The inverse is not however true. Cycling is better for runners, than running is for cyclists. As a amateur competitive cyclist why would you do something that actually slows you and can injure you and keep you off your bike? There are many other ways to recover, including on-bike active recovery. Cheers, Doc Last edited by ebonho : 2nd September 2021 at 13:32. | |
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![]() | #24 |
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| Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? CYCLING for RUNNERS – ‘Why can’t runners cycle quickly?’ What’s the difference in terms of fitness between running and cycling? Why doesn’t running necessarily make you a great cyclist or vice versa? They are both endurance activities, both aerobic and both use your legs, but what’s the difference? Marc Laithwaite from the Endurance Coach asks the question: ‘Why can’t runners cycle quickly?’ The answer to some extent lies in the way we test cyclists and runners. People who visit us for VO2 testing will follow a set protocol, based on whether it’s a run or bike test. The run test starts by running on a treadmill at a slow speed and every minute the speed gets faster until they either jump off or they are ‘fired off’ the back of the treadmill. As the treadmill gets quicker, they have to move their legs faster. Their ‘cadence’ is increased to allow them to stay on the treadmill, but the ‘resistance’ doesn’t really change. When you are running, the resistance is pretty constant, you have to lift the weight of your leg and push your body weight forwards, not a great deal changes as the treadmill gets faster, you just need to move more quickly. The cyling test is different. We start by asking people to cycle at 90 revolutions per minute and they must maintain that throughout the test (unlike running the cadence / leg speed does not change, it stays the same). Each minute we increase the resistance and it gets harder to turn the pedals, so unlike the run test, the resistance is increasing throughout the test. The test ends when they are no longer able to maintain the 90 revolutions per minute. In some ways, it’s almost like doing a strength exercise such as the ‘leg press’ and as each minute passes, we add a little more weight until they can’t keep going. What can we draw from the above? There is an element of strength involved in cycling that isn’t required for running. You can call it strength or ‘muscular endurance’ (call it whatever you like), but the basic fact is that you have to work against high levels of resistance during cycling that don’t apply to running. What about gears and cadence? Ok, so at this point you might be thinking there’s a way round this. Rather than being strong, you can use an easier gear and pedal faster! Yes, to come extent you can and we see this a lot with runners who take up cycling, they prefer to spin easier gears rather than pushing big gears at lower cadences. However, there’s only so far you can take this approach. If you increase your cadence from 90 to 100 to go faster, what happens after that? Do you increase to 110? 120? 130!!?? Here’s our basic observations about the problems often encountered by runners who take up cycling: 1. They lack the basic strength and struggle most frequently on flat courses, where the ability to push ‘big gears’ counts the most. 2. This can generally be identified by a simple 5 second maximal sprint test, which results in a poor power output. 3. Runners tend to favour spinning easier gears and may well favour a ‘compact’ or ‘triple’ chainset. 4. On longer, gradual climbs, runners tend to come into their own and can perform relatively well (long gradual hills are the best courses and flat ‘time trial’ courses are the worst in terms of race performance). 5. Shorter / steeper hills on rolling courses may also be an issue as they lack the ‘short term’ power to maintain speed. 6. When runners complete cycle testing sessions we commonly hear this: “My heart and lungs felt fine, it’s just my legs, I couldn’t turn the pedals, there was too much resistance” 7. It’s more common in females than males and it’s more common as age increases. 8. When people enter Ironman triathlon, they make a presumption that riding long and slow to build endurance is the way forwards. After all, Ironman is all about endurance right? Maybe not. Here’s the simple truth. If you want to be an ‘UBER’ biker for non-drafting triathlon or cycle time trials, you really need to be able to generate a high power output and push big gears. Either that or you need to pick your courses very well to suit your strengths. There’s a lot of confusion and poor advice regarding the best cycling cadence, which has lead to confusion regarding the physical requirements and training for a fast bike time. People get told every day that you should ‘spin a higher cadence’ when cycling, which is misleading and leads to misunderstanding. In many cases, it makes people slower cyclists and fails to tackle their prime weakness. On that bombshell… lets discuss cycle cadence in more detail. There’s a lot of confusion and poor advice regarding the best cycling cadence, which has lead to confusion regarding the physical requirements and training for a fast bike time. People get told every day that you should ‘spin a higher cadence’ when cycling, which is misleading and leads to misunderstanding. In many cases, it makes people slower cyclists and fails to tackle their prime weakness. Let’s discuss a little further and clarify some of the misleading advice. 1. There are different kinds of cycle racing. In triathlon events, the cycle stage (unless you’re elite) is a time trial. It’s you against the clock and there’s no drafting allowed. Time trials require a high power output which is consistent. There’s no repeated accelerations or ‘attacks’, it’s just you, riding at a constant power output. 2. Cycle road racing, crit racing or elite triathlon is not a time trial, it’s a bunch ride. It’s much easier to ride in the draft of the bunch and riders will therefore cycle at higher cadences in easier gears, whilst still maintaining their position in the group. Bunch racing will often include changes in pace, accelerations, attacks and chasing. It’s impossible to accelerate well, if you’re pushing a ‘big gear’, for that reason, bunch racing tends to favour higher cadences and easier gears. 3. Triathletes who ride with cyclists are often told ‘it’s better and more eficient to ride at higher cadences’. That is true for cyclists who ride in bunch races, so whilst the advice is correct for their specific circumstances, it doesn’t mean it’s right for triathletes. 4. Pretty much all studies on the subject show that slower cadences use less oxygen, results in lower heart rate and require less fuel than higher cadences. Many cyclists who ride ‘time trials’ rather than road races favour big gears and slower cadences. Former British champion Nik Bowdler use a 77 tooth chain ring and rode at 65rpm. Chrissie Wellington followed the same approach, riding a much lower cadence as she found it reduced her breathing and heart rate significantly. Cadence V Gearing Cadence and gearing are not the same thing. If someone is told to spin at a high cadence up hills, we presume that we should choose a very easy gear. If we’re told to ride with a slower cadence, we associate that with a big gear. You will often see pro riders spinning a higher cadence up hills, don’t be fooled into thinking they are using a compact chainset or a very easy gear, they are strong enough to spin a larger gear. Simply changing into a very easy gear to allow you to spin, will result in you going slowly. The reason you are forced to use an easy gear is a basic lack of ability to produce a high force, so you are not tackling the problem at hand. Take away tips: 1. You need to use bigger gears at some point if you want to ride faster 2. To use bigger gears you need to have the basic leg strength (often lacking in runners, moreso ladies) 3. Slower cadences are more efficient for time trials and faster cadences are better for changes of pace on technical courses and bunch races 4. As a rider, you should be capable of adapting your cadence to suit the race 5. Don’t just start pushing huge gears in an attempt to tackle the problem, be wary of injury 6. Don’t keep reaching for the gear shifter every time you hit the smallest incline, this isn’t helping 7. If strength is very poor, you may want to consider a simple strength routine in the gym as a basic start point Courtesy: https://iancorless.org/2015/08/06/cy...cycle-quickly/ Cheers, Doc Last edited by ebonho : 2nd September 2021 at 14:06. |
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Senior - BHPian ![]() | Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? Quote:
I can relate every single word uttered here. As a runner who took up cycling i can fully relate the changes i have made to accommodate cycling as a serious sport. But would like to highlight one aspect here. While the author tries to differentiate cycling (as Tri / TT / Crits) he generalizes running. All runners are not same. Sprint Runners and Hurdle runners pack immense strength much more than pro level road cyclist almost akin to Track cyclists (but with better propotion). Middle distance runners look decent as well, the issue of complete aerobic game comes with Long distance runners (10k and above) They look skinny, pack less strength and even less fat. Cadence and Stride length makes the pace and because you cannot elongate your legs more than a point (also related to your height), people hinge upon higher Cadence to get faster. So this is what happened to me over the last one year!
Over this last one year itself, i have moved down the cadence chain and got faster ! I used to Spin like crazy hitting 100+ rpms quite often. But now i am able to live the pain of cycling at 80 rpm. I don't have years and years of experience in cycling, barely 13 months since i started this seriously. But i totally understand the changes needed to become one. But right now i am very much in mindspace like @kat - I enjoy both and i want to do well in both. What i do is not cross training - It is called dual sport. Last edited by Mi10 : 2nd September 2021 at 15:43. | |
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![]() | #26 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pune
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| Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? Quote:
Your last line is exactly what I have been saying. Do not cross train. It does nothing (or next to nothing) and adds immensely to unnecessary risk. By all means train for your event. If its running and cycling, then run and cycle. If its only cycling, then cycle. Don't run. In the end you need to define your own goals and pathway to achieving it. Is it general fitness and weight loss? Or is it a bit of competitive juices flowing in your middle age? Cheers, Doc | |
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![]() | #27 |
Distinguished - BHPian ![]() ![]() Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bangalore
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| Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? So I am back here. The past week or so, I purposefully cut my distance to around 25 kms a day. Let's see: 12 Sep: 43 kms I had some pain and discomfort while returning. Wasn't too happy. The last but one flyover had me cursing myself. Tyre pressure was around 100. ![]() ![]() Click the picture to see the whole thing. I started walk mode in my watch instead of cycling when I started the trip lol! 16 Sep: 27 kms This time I decided to drop the mileage to around 25 kms. And what a difference this made. I was able to focus more on changing the gears at the right time (still getting there), and using the right ratios wherever possible, as well as understanding how the bike moves in different "slopes" to see what gear works best. Also working on reducing cross chaining as much as possible. I was also not cursing myself on said last but one fly over, and I actually just flew over. I was happy when I got home, and there was no pain or discomfort. I found the discomfort exacerbated with keeping the tyre pressure "high". I dropped the pressure to 90. Was good. ![]() 19 Sep: 30 kms Slightly increased the distance by just a tad to see how I would cope. Brilliant in short. I felt much faster in most places, gear changes started becoming seamless. Now I turned my attention to my sitting position and finally found out what and where my sit bones are. i mean, i could actually feel the bone. Until now, my mind was focused on many other things and hence could not concentrate on this aspect. Do note, i have not done a professional bike fit yet, which I wanted to do after putting a reasonable amount of mileage on the bike and understanding various aspects of how I fit onto the bike myself. A professional bike fit is coming after about 250 kms on the bike. This time, I was back home quite fast, hardly many stops barring for water. Ofcourse, headwinds on the way back were far less. I dropped the tyre pressure even further to 85. God what a difference this made. I won't go lower than this PSI even though a reviewer from one of the top cycling mags who reviewed this bike rode at 80 psi (tyre rated for 87psi minimum) and didn't really say anything about going lower than minimum rating. Or maybe I should. I don't know. I weigh a measly 65 kgs so I think it should be alright. I am absolutely certain now about switching the tyres to 700c/35 and dropping that pressure even further. If I start doing a lot of gravel, then 650B wheels with upto 42 tyres will work within this frame clearance. ![]() I have now begun cycling almost every alternate day and will keep the daily mileage to 25-30k and not more and allow the body to slowly begin coping. The key is also to enjoy the riding and outdoor activity as opposed to being in pain all the time. |
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![]() | #28 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pune
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| Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? Quote:
Which bike are you riding now? Cheers, Doc | |
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![]() | #29 |
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| Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? |
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![]() | #30 | |
Senior - BHPian ![]() Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pune
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| Re: Cyclists: Tips on managing pain & cycling further? Quote:
![]() In all seriousness I am just glad you did not give up on cycling after your first bad experience (many do), and learned from your mistakes and are going about it different now. Don't be shy. Please post photos of you on the new baby. I want to see your stance on it now. Cheers, Doc Last edited by ebonho : 20th September 2021 at 10:22. | |
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