Team-BHP - Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979 (Post 465833)

lbm, its not just the 99.9% purity part. Thats just the ETP grade.
Finolex, L&T and other cables which are certified BIS IS 694 standard should meet many other criteria too.
I found this link Copper India
When I got my apartment constructed, I specifically got it checked that the wiring, including 15A wiring for AC points is all IS 694 compliant and the builder does not use any silly non BIS certified brands.
Since a 300W (Not sound, but electric rating) amp will carry around 25AMP of current, the wiring should be rated for higher. Most BIS standard wiring from reputed companies has the max current carrying capacity written on it.
Moreover in all these brands you can also choose wires specially insulated to withstand 70 degree + ambient temparatures(industrial wiring).

every thing is fine tsk.....but the above rating is done on the basis of AC but not on DC .......as DC will require thicker wires....

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker (Post 465816)

this is a pic of a electrical panel

that my friends is NOT the picture of any electrical panel but the contents of what is presently now serves in LBM's car; and some silly people just add a little bit of 0/1G cable and a itsy bitsy dstribution block. LBM goes 3 phase with a step down and rectifer! Now this is the CORRECT way to do it.

LBM, Tim the Toolman would be proud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin (Post 465857)

Silver has an added advantage. Silver oxide is conductive. Cooper oxide is not.

Besides there are some that believe that each metal (and some other materials like carbon) adds it's own signature to the sound (this does not apply to Power cables) along with other factors like core geometry, skin effect, dielectric, and even the granular structure of conductors.

Gold and silver are supposed to enhance detail, carbon fibre is supposed to induce a relaxing presentaion, Titanium is suppsoed to enhance the bass, copper increaes warmth etc... . I know of cables that claim to have all these elements and more!

I guess atleast skin effect wont be a problem in DC :)
As for the mood wires, I know of a few gentelmen from the history book who claimed that a chemical reaction existed which could convert Iron to gold! I even read about a few of them in a Fantasy and dragon lore

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker (Post 465858)

every thing is fine tsk.....but the above rating is done on the basis of AC but not on DC .......as DC will require thicker wires....

Yea forgot about that. Thats why 4 Guage wire to carry 30AMPS while in DC it can take in 50amps I suppose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979 (Post 465875)

Yea forgot about that. Thats why 4 Guage wire to carry 30AMPS while in DC it can take in 50amps I suppose.

It would be the other way round....and I think the differnce would be greater....

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979 (Post 465875)

I guess atleast skin effect wont be a problem in DC :).

All these claims are usually just for smal signal (read as AC).

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker (Post 465881)

It would be the other way round....and I think the differnce would be greater....

Yea the other way round stupid:

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin (Post 465887)

All these claims are usually just for smal signal (read as AC).

No doubt that sound signal has to be AC, additionally the signal before power amps (RCA in ICE terminology) is also literally "small". As I understand, even if HUs have say 2V output, that is at full blast. Normal passage of real music would be much smaller (millivolts) right? If so, is this the reason behind these special effect claims? And do these effects reduce by using high volt preamps (4-5 volts)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker (Post 465881)

It would be the other way round....and I think the differnce would be greater....

would you care to tell why it is so?

A question to the Gurus. What are these horn loaded compression drivers from Image Dynamics? Are they a substitute for components or just tweeters? Couldn't figure out much from their website, but the high crossover point suggests the latter.
Would also appreciate the Gurus' views on kick-panels. Are they a viable alternative to door-cutting? Thanks in advance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nura (Post 466043)

A question to the Gurus. What are these horn loaded compression drivers from Image Dynamics? .

Gunbir is the ID guy. They are respected in car competition circles. but they require careful matching to midbass/midrange drivers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979 (Post 465875)

As for the mood wires, I know of a few gentelmen from the history book who claimed that a chemical reaction existed which could convert Iron to gold! I even read about a few of them in a Fantasy and dragon lore

Alchemy. Has Arabic origins I remember. Kimiya I believe means metal.

Alchemists also dabbled in the ancient days with Magick and potions. There is a certain occultic mysticism attached with the processes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi (Post 466458)

Sam Bhai I dont think it related to ICE as I cannot google it up...:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin (Post 465478)

Many if not all tannoys also need horn loading (like many but not all fullrange drivers) to create a balanced sound. I have used the HPD 10 (Eaton) and 15 (Berkley) as well as the Gold 12 (still have a pair of LSU/HF/12G drivers around somewhere). Like I have said before age has it's priviliages! :-) and they were good drivers but i many ways I am begining to believe that the ga Jme has moved on.ust like the game for the big block (350cc and more) V8s has moved on with the new advent of modern 2.0 liter "microprocessor controlled turbochagered and fuel injected" engines producing all the power/torque with half the weight.

Like it or not the HF unit looks like it is a "wave guide". The only disagreemment we seem to have is if this wave guide is moving (a woofer cone). I do not understand how you can say that the woofer in a tannoy dual concentric will not affect the HF emanting from it's center.

I am not comparing a dual concentric to a traditional multi way speaker. I too find most of these missing that "special something". Fullranges despite their shortcomig i managing the entire musical spectrum (some are also strangely coloured in their delivery) are more coherent. My experiences with managing a fullrange (Jordan JX92) using a "super tweeter" like the OW4 and a woofer like a pair of 8" (Focal 8K516J in this case) have not been very successful. Although my XO is around 100 and 5k the coherence still gets lost. So the search goes on. Other options (dipoles, planar-dynamic combos, and more) will also have to be further researched. I have tried one planar dynamic combo that was nice (but coloured) using a pair of 12" (isobarik) mated to a Maggie SMGa.

Now I fear we are seriously OT. Thanks to my initial comment. So before the rest of the forum starts leaving we should take this discussion to PM.

Disclaimer: I have not heard or used the smaller 6.5 and 8" DC Tannoys other than some rudimentery listening at various Audio shows.

Tannoy still rules as drivers. Don't judge Tannoy by listening to mass market residential speakers. Comapre neck to neck the high end loudspeakers with Tannoy Prestige / Dimension Series you will know that Tannoy is still up there and far ahead from most.

There is only one loudspeaker in Tannoy range today which is horn loaded and that is their Reference Westminster Royal HE, which also is a 530 litres compound horn cabinet loaded with 15" Dual Concentric Alnico Magnet driver. The low / bass notes are horn loaded below 200 Hz, above 200 Hz it is a front firing point source.

The so called modern fuel injected turbo / supercharged 2.0L type loudspeaker will sound like "Meow" in front of this monster which is actually a 426 cu.in. Hemi V8. Remember no replacement for displacement.

The wave guide is not moving. Its stationary and sits in front of the tweeter inside the woofers voice coil and the throw of HF is controlled by this waveguide not by woofer cone.

There are no issues of LF disturbing the HF. If it ever was aproblem which is not small by any standards Tannoy Engineers would have been the first one to know, the Dual Concentric driver would have been the disaster and Tannoy cannot afford to carry a faulty design for more than 70 years. Moreover it could not be winning hearts of Audiophiles across the world and could never make it to mastering studios with that flaw if it ever was existant.

Regarding supertweeter I have listened for a long time to Tannoy Canterbury's with and without Supertweeter, ST 200 which costs 2 lakhs a pair on top of 10 Lakhs for pair of loudspeakers. The super tweeter at 1/5 th the cost was making big difference in performance and sound. They added air, the top end got smooth and the overall phase got spot on resulting in better imaging and staging. The speakers were running off Krell SACD Standard mated to Krell KAV 280P preamp and KaV 250 power amplifiers the cables used were Transparent audio.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autophile (Post 466559)

Tannoy still rules as drivers.

The wave guide is not moving. Its stationary and sits in front of the tweeter inside the woofers voice coil and the throw of HF is controlled by this waveguide not by woofer cone..

1. Tannoy still rules as drivers - Agreed.

2. I know that there is a small wave guide in front of the tweeter but this wave guide also sits inside the woofers cone and beyond the edge of the wave guide there is the cone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autophile (Post 466559)

Regarding supertweeter I have listened for a long time to Tannoy Canterbury's with and without Supertweeter, ST 200 which costs 2 lakhs a pair on top of 10 Lakhs for pair of loudspeakers.

10Lac? :Shockked:
Nice reading all that about Tannoy. Thanks Gurus. I wouldnt know about these otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by santosh.s (Post 465924)

If so, is this the reason behind these special effect claims? And do these effects reduce by using high volt preamps (4-5 volts)??

I dont think we are considering teh electrical characteristcs of the cables. Many of these exotic cables might have similar electrical characteristics but still sound different.