SO....Just how good is Pioneer?

navin · 26th September 2005, 11:03

I have used Pio, Blau, Alpine, Nak, Sony, JVC and these are the HU brands I can remember.

while the models are all different at different times Pioneer offers good quality for the money. Their Premier line is as good as the best.

In a home audio tape deck shoot out, I have head to head tests of a Pio CT93/95, Nak BX300/ZX7/Dragon, Eumig FL1000, etc.. somewhere and the Pio decks beat or equalled these other esteem brands. Except for the Dolby SR tracking (which the others did not have).

My issue in India is not so much with Pioneer's sound (which I find bright but then I find many HUs bright) or with their display (which I find loud) but with their marketing. This has been discussed at lenght before so I wont rehash this but I guess there are only 2 reaons Pio has decided to follow this path. (a) they dont care (b) they can get away with it.

I hear that Autocop is selling Pio with B&W but their prices are twice that of the grey market. Time will tell if this strategy works.

A system is a combination of parts. Mate a Pio HU to JBL speaker both a tad bright and you will get sound that will be reminisent of a dentist's drill. replace the JBLs with Infinity and it will be more tolerable. Mate the Infinity to Alpine and you will have lush. So you cant just say XYZ is bad and ABC is good. What does ABCC HU mated to MNOP amps mated to WXYZ speakers sound like. Throw in cables and processors and the combinations are maddening.

Another case in point (at the other extreme) mate the Manger Zerobox 103 to the Cadence tube amp and blah; the sound has no life. Mate them to beefier brighter amps and they sound nice.

Audio is 1 part science, 1 part art, 2 parts voo doo, and 4 parts marketing shaken and stirred.

Steeroid · 26th September 2005, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

Audio is 1 part science, 1 part art, 2 parts voo doo, and 4 parts marketing shaken and stirred.

Since Sam's into Marketing, can we assume you're into Voodoo?

Masta! Dont spareum da juju!

5u3zEr0 · 26th September 2005, 20:26

I have een using Pioneer in my cars from the time, I started out with car audio. They were the most VFM then and are still now. Started out with Pioneer HU,speakers, tweeters, and SWoofers. From then on till now I have upgraded, upgraded and upgraded in the last 8 years to my existing system now, which has only Pioneer HU, CD changer and the Premier amp.

I upgraded only coz I wanted smething nicer in my car and not once due to a prolem in any of the electronics (The premier amp has een with me from the start, 8 years, touchwood!). You guys forgot a point, Pioneers have great resale value!! Everything I upgraded, the Pioneer was sold for a good price. Secondly I changed from Pioneer to the others coz I wanted different ICE in my car from the other cars and I wanted to graduate to the "next level" of car audio where to me small things mattered. On they way spending lots of rs. For eg.: spending 12k on a single woofer, whereas I would have got 4 Pio's for that kind of money.

Pioneer HU's are very reliale, VFM and cool sounding to me, they just need to e tweaked a little so that the highs are mellowed! And their they sound etter straight away. Their high end, Premier line HU's have some amazing features to control sound. Their ODR HU's are awesome and I cant wait to get my hands on them!

Their amplifiers, are good too and the Speakers r decent sounding. Would choose, Pioneer anyday over laupunkt, Sony and Kenwood.

Note from the Admin : SMS language is not permitted on this board. Please read the board rules carefully to avoid your warning level from being incremented

Autophile · 26th September 2005, 21:29

[quote=navin]

Another case in point (at the other extreme) mate the Manger Zerobox 103 to the Cadence tube amp and blah; the sound has no life. Mate them to beefier brighter amps and they sound nice.
[quote]

Navin

Manger Zeroboxes are tough load for amplifiers especially the valve ones. They are happier with solid state power amplifiers.

Driving 3 MSW Manger Bending Wave Drivers and 2 Vifa 10" Bass Drivers presenting a nominal load of 4 ohms is tough for tubes.

I have heard Manger driven by NAD Silverline series and Gryphon electronics and they sing...great speakers.

Its not the fault of equipment....you have to be very careful while matching the equipment. If done wrong the results are tragic.

I have seen people trying to drive big speakers with tube amps and end up blowing tweeters because they dun realise that they are driving amp in clipping.

navin · 27th September 2005, 10:58

The 103 has one Vifa 8" and 1 Manger.

Yes and you've heard the same system I did. Khushroo demoed them right? Using the Manger-tube example was an extreme to explain my point. see post 16 on this thread.

Autophile · 27th September 2005, 11:25

No thats a Manger 103 the one you are talking about is Manger 109 (2 way with 8" Bass Driver) one.

Yeah Khushroo carries Manger. Respect to guy knowledge and expertise.

navin · 27th September 2005, 13:12

maybe you are right. i never can get these model numbers right.

5u3zEr0 · 27th September 2005, 13:53

Quote:

Note from the Admin : SMS language is not permitted on this board. Please read the board rules carefully to avoid your warning level from being incremented

Thanks for the warning note. I have always tried not to use SMS language in any of my posts but if I have, I am sorry about it. Plus the letter "B" on my home computer's keyboard has not been working for a few days now and thats the reason why the letter "b" is missing in many words.

nishantgandhi · 20th February 2008, 13:52

Just stumbled upon this thread and thought of putting in my 2 cents. Pioneer was my first HU, 7 years ago and I chose it primarily because of its sound clarity, ease of use of menu and good looks. Of course, the fact that grey market prices were way better than B&W prices for other brands also added to the attractiveness factor.

In my current car, I am using Blaupunkt and although its good, but it just isnt 'my type of system'. Like GTO, my volume level is generally around 50% plus and I feel the Blaupunkt under powered for this. Pioneer could do the job of loudness pretty well, even without the amp, and with no sacrifice on SQ.

Have also heard OEM Alpine on my (N) Honda City and Kenwood on OHC. Kenwood is one brand that I never liked, and probably will never like! As regards Alpine, I second Sahil. It seems subdued and timid compared to Pioneer.

Somehow, I could never convince myself for a Sony when it comes to electronics. I have seen their quality deteriorate over the years across the board. I have deliberately neglected the brand when it came to Home Theater system (again, bought a Pioneer for the reasons mentioned above) or for a digicam (went for Canon) or a handy cam (went for JVC, as they had a good lineup of VFM HDD camcorders).

So in a nutshell, Pioneer is doing good for the price conscious, looks conscious and sound happy Indian consumer. All these factors IMO, makes Pioneer think twice before launching B&W higher priced systems (as compared to other brands).

kkr2k2 · 20th February 2008, 20:22

I have a pio HU and pio speakers.

I didnt chose the all pio system because i did some kind of research. My friend suggested pio so went for it. Overall i am happy with the system. Have been using the system for 5 years, had one minor repair with the loading tray and now the remote not working. But its been doing duty for the last 5 years so i dont mind the remote stopped working.

raj

Xehaust · 21st February 2008, 03:24

Have bought Pioneer Headunits for two of my cars and am very happy with them.
They give me all that i could want. I mean good sound, good looks,remote & auxilary in and all this for just 5,000/- bucks. I was blown away when i heard that Auxilary In was also there. Obvio it is grey market but then too! This was last year and the head unit in my car is still in brand new condition. Plays skip free even on bad & i do mean bad roads & no hassles since the day it was installed. You can see a low res pic in my garage.

Pioneer has made me a loyal customer. I mean it is bang on ya. Looks,features and quality and that too on a budget!

26th September 2005, 11:03	#16
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,198 Thanked: 9,304 Times	I have used Pio, Blau, Alpine, Nak, Sony, JVC and these are the HU brands I can remember. while the models are all different at different times Pioneer offers good quality for the money. Their Premier line is as good as the best. In a home audio tape deck shoot out, I have head to head tests of a Pio CT93/95, Nak BX300/ZX7/Dragon, Eumig FL1000, etc.. somewhere and the Pio decks beat or equalled these other esteem brands. Except for the Dolby SR tracking (which the others did not have). My issue in India is not so much with Pioneer's sound (which I find bright but then I find many HUs bright) or with their display (which I find loud) but with their marketing. This has been discussed at lenght before so I wont rehash this but I guess there are only 2 reaons Pio has decided to follow this path. (a) they dont care (b) they can get away with it. I hear that Autocop is selling Pio with B&W but their prices are twice that of the grey market. Time will tell if this strategy works. A system is a combination of parts. Mate a Pio HU to JBL speaker both a tad bright and you will get sound that will be reminisent of a dentist's drill. replace the JBLs with Infinity and it will be more tolerable. Mate the Infinity to Alpine and you will have lush. So you cant just say XYZ is bad and ABC is good. What does ABCC HU mated to MNOP amps mated to WXYZ speakers sound like. Throw in cables and processors and the combinations are maddening. Another case in point (at the other extreme) mate the Manger Zerobox 103 to the Cadence tube amp and blah; the sound has no life. Mate them to beefier brighter amps and they sound nice. Audio is 1 part science, 1 part art, 2 parts voo doo, and 4 parts marketing shaken and stirred.
	() Thanks

26th September 2005, 20:26	#18
5u3zEr0 BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Madras Posts: 379 Thanked: 3 Times	I have een using Pioneer in my cars from the time, I started out with car audio. They were the most VFM then and are still now. Started out with Pioneer HU,speakers, tweeters, and SWoofers. From then on till now I have upgraded, upgraded and upgraded in the last 8 years to my existing system now, which has only Pioneer HU, CD changer and the Premier amp. I upgraded only coz I wanted smething nicer in my car and not once due to a prolem in any of the electronics (The premier amp has een with me from the start, 8 years, touchwood!). You guys forgot a point, Pioneers have great resale value!! Everything I upgraded, the Pioneer was sold for a good price. Secondly I changed from Pioneer to the others coz I wanted different ICE in my car from the other cars and I wanted to graduate to the "next level" of car audio where to me small things mattered. On they way spending lots of rs. For eg.: spending 12k on a single woofer, whereas I would have got 4 Pio's for that kind of money. Pioneer HU's are very reliale, VFM and cool sounding to me, they just need to e tweaked a little so that the highs are mellowed! And their they sound etter straight away. Their high end, Premier line HU's have some amazing features to control sound. Their ODR HU's are awesome and I cant wait to get my hands on them! Their amplifiers, are good too and the Speakers r decent sounding. Would choose, Pioneer anyday over laupunkt, Sony and Kenwood. Note from the Admin : SMS language is not permitted on this board. Please read the board rules carefully to avoid your warning level from being incremented Last edited by 5u3zEr0 : 26th September 2005 at 20:33.
	() Thanks

26th September 2005, 21:29	#19
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	[quote=navin] Another case in point (at the other extreme) mate the Manger Zerobox 103 to the Cadence tube amp and blah; the sound has no life. Mate them to beefier brighter amps and they sound nice. [quote] Navin Manger Zeroboxes are tough load for amplifiers especially the valve ones. They are happier with solid state power amplifiers. Driving 3 MSW Manger Bending Wave Drivers and 2 Vifa 10" Bass Drivers presenting a nominal load of 4 ohms is tough for tubes. I have heard Manger driven by NAD Silverline series and Gryphon electronics and they sing...great speakers. Its not the fault of equipment....you have to be very careful while matching the equipment. If done wrong the results are tragic. I have seen people trying to drive big speakers with tube amps and end up blowing tweeters because they dun realise that they are driving amp in clipping.
	() Thanks

27th September 2005, 10:58	#20
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,198 Thanked: 9,304 Times	The 103 has one Vifa 8" and 1 Manger. Yes and you've heard the same system I did. Khushroo demoed them right? Using the Manger-tube example was an extreme to explain my point. see post 16 on this thread.
	() Thanks

27th September 2005, 11:25	#21
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	No thats a Manger 103 the one you are talking about is Manger 109 (2 way with 8" Bass Driver) one. Yeah Khushroo carries Manger. Respect to guy knowledge and expertise.
	() Thanks

27th September 2005, 13:12	#22
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,198 Thanked: 9,304 Times	maybe you are right. i never can get these model numbers right.
	() Thanks

20th February 2008, 13:52	#24
nishantgandhi Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,220 Thanked: 156 Times	Just stumbled upon this thread and thought of putting in my 2 cents. Pioneer was my first HU, 7 years ago and I chose it primarily because of its sound clarity, ease of use of menu and good looks. Of course, the fact that grey market prices were way better than B&W prices for other brands also added to the attractiveness factor. In my current car, I am using Blaupunkt and although its good, but it just isnt 'my type of system'. Like GTO, my volume level is generally around 50% plus and I feel the Blaupunkt under powered for this. Pioneer could do the job of loudness pretty well, even without the amp, and with no sacrifice on SQ. Have also heard OEM Alpine on my (N) Honda City and Kenwood on OHC. Kenwood is one brand that I never liked, and probably will never like! As regards Alpine, I second Sahil. It seems subdued and timid compared to Pioneer. Somehow, I could never convince myself for a Sony when it comes to electronics. I have seen their quality deteriorate over the years across the board. I have deliberately neglected the brand when it came to Home Theater system (again, bought a Pioneer for the reasons mentioned above) or for a digicam (went for Canon) or a handy cam (went for JVC, as they had a good lineup of VFM HDD camcorders). So in a nutshell, Pioneer is doing good for the price conscious, looks conscious and sound happy Indian consumer. All these factors IMO, makes Pioneer think twice before launching B&W higher priced systems (as compared to other brands).
	() Thanks

20th February 2008, 20:22	#25
kkr2k2 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne, Hyd Posts: 1,294 Thanked: 66 Times View My Garage	I have a pio HU and pio speakers. I didnt chose the all pio system because i did some kind of research. My friend suggested pio so went for it. Overall i am happy with the system. Have been using the system for 5 years, had one minor repair with the loading tray and now the remote not working. But its been doing duty for the last 5 years so i dont mind the remote stopped working. raj
	() Thanks

21st February 2008, 03:24	#26
Xehaust BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 846 Thanked: 81 Times View My Garage	Have bought Pioneer Headunits for two of my cars and am very happy with them. They give me all that i could want. I mean good sound, good looks,remote & auxilary in and all this for just 5,000/- bucks. I was blown away when i heard that Auxilary In was also there. Obvio it is grey market but then too! This was last year and the head unit in my car is still in brand new condition. Plays skip free even on bad & i do mean bad roads & no hassles since the day it was installed. You can see a low res pic in my garage. Pioneer has made me a loyal customer. I mean it is bang on ya. Looks,features and quality and that too on a budget!
	() Thanks