[GT500]

It started like everyone’s ICE quests starts, by reading numerous posts by the members of our team and trying to ape the experience in your own ride, though with sane financial constraints, now guys here would knock thoughts into my brain, If you’re into ICE then kindly leave that evil thought outside the car, “thou shall be punished who seeketh ICE bliss at a budget”

I was successful in aping the experience as per my half baked knowledge and so the journey began.

Ice to me meant a simple HU with speakers on all four doors, similar to any average Joe’s expectation out of a car audio system. Tun-tuna system ,to be precise.

But as I was exposed to different kind of sounds in different forms, read :friend’s tun –tuna installed in his car which could shake the neighbourhood while he came back home and a serious set of 2.1 THX speakers that were gifted to me with mind numbing bass, so to recreate that very effect in a moving car became stronger. But then again I wanted to hear sound in my car and not outside it as I believed in sound in its natural state.


After being exposed to various terms that seemed to be exotic at that time came with a little excitement and confusion at the same time.
Excitement at the fact of experiencing great sound, and confusion at the fact of being a novice in this field.

As time progressed, the knowledge I gained, coupled with a few setups I was able to hear from a couple cars, I had finalised what to plonk in the car.I heard Bull audio components in a fellow Bhpian’s Car who was kind enough to let me have an audition of his car and after reading so many reviews in Sound off , show off section it was like a decision that was inevitable.

Since I was a little tight on the financial end, decided to do it in stages, to make the total seems less to the sole financers of this project when they forget about the first stage :-P

First stage consisted of me getting the adequate HU and a decent pair of components. I had very limited choice back in july in terms of choosing from where to source the components and where to get ‘em fitted.

The usual choice of going to Lajpat Nagar or Karol Bagh was out of the question as workmanship was on top of my list.

After reading a bit, a place called DRIVEN came up ,decided to go there as I had no other choice, as by the time I decided on the system , Gyro had shut shop.

Well, the experience of going to Driven was not satisfactory to say the least far from it ! More on that later!

So I had the first stage done(Pio HU+Bull comps) , and was enjoying every bit of it, though after a while , like all people have the urge, I decided to add more stuff the existing setup.

Before doing this , I had an issue that needed to be addressed. Now people usually don’t get this done before getting an Amplifier, the issue with me was, that apparently my door panel’s vibration was on the higher side(read flimsy Jap cars) even when running them from the HU, thereby spoiling the whole karmic experience of listening to German engineered sound and make it sound like the next door kid hitting the wooden tub for fun.

So damping had to be done. I had the more expensive options of going towards brands like Dynamat Etc. but it was a very costly affair(upwards of 5k) I had no intention of spending that kinda money on just damping but after researching a bit, I found a cheaper ,equally efficient alternative.Wurth Damping. I had to source it directly from their company itself, and got it applied, pretty easy stuff actually(heat it ,peel it ,slap it on) , Infact after I shared my experience on it , a fellow Bhpian did a DIY, amazing stuff,indeed.

Total damage to my pocket for damping>>2200/=, Final experience>>smile as wide as Africa.

So I got rid of the issue that was holding me back and went on to stage 2.A sub and an AMP.Sigh ,cash crunch again!

Again not many choices when you’re on a tight budget. But the hunt went on and brands such as Rockford, JBL, and Bull were finalised for the SUB. Pioneer had been given though to ,but was told to stay away as it wasn’t a SQ oriented sub and more towards SPL.
After being confused with these brands and a couple of more,It’s the classic situation of the “kid in the candy store, with wide eyes gawking at choices available to suck at, I finally decided to choose one and stick with it. Chose bull and I’m glad I did.

For the amp, I had to choose between JBL and Kenwood in my price range, It was a random decision, don’t know where the calling came from, went with Kenwood, though I see no reason why I chose Kenwood, It was just an epiphany. Total Random stuff, so don’t go on ask confusing questions about RMS et all.

So the final setup consisted of the Kenwood AMP being fed by the Pioneer HU and juicing a pair of Bull Components and a Bull Sub.

The overall listening Experience was good and I was happy with the whole outcome.
BUT getting to this was horrifying experience, and could give an academy award winning horror movie a run for its money!! More on that later! :-P


Part 2: The experience ^^ plus the final setup pictures!

Cheers

GT

[camchennai]

GT500 - That was a wonderful narration on each steps involved in the setup and excellent write up too.
But you have missed out on two things very badly
1. You forgot to mention which car was it
2. Pictures.

Please keep them coming in.

[Technocrat]

Sounds interesting, waiting for install pics

which Car btw?

[low_bass_makker]

I think it is a Swift !!!

[abhipuru16]

Man! Don't keep us waiting!
Update soon.

And yes, the car is a Swift, gt500 made a DIY Damping tutorial with his Swift.

[GT500]

Lol,forgot to mention the Car of all the details!
Yeah the Car is a Swift burning “D-jal”
What gave it away?

Anyways, The experience was a mixed bag actually, which was attributed to the fact that I had been using a wrong power cable and wrong sub wire (more on that later)

Though after rectifying the above mentioned issues it was good, and I couldn’t stop grinning like a 12 year old kid being tickled to no end.


So these were the building blocks of the setup:-



Stock look is very important to me partly due to the fact that my family’s garage has been the victim of rampant theft of auto parts involving 3 pairs of Honda side view mirrors, a head unit and most recently Fiat logos(what a low life, he could have gone for my neighbor's Altis yar)!



So the tweeters had to be flush mounted. Everything else was in its place, I had planned to plonk the Amp under the seat, but decided against it as I usually carry lots of water bottles(weird) and feared damage due to accidental spillage. The amp was finally mounted behind the back seat(as borat would say it looks naaice!)





The sub box is self made(DIY keeda+”baniya giri”), so cosmetically it ain’t a looker but does the job.1.26 cu.ft. is the volume,silicone sealed,non parallel sides.(painted it black, excuse my painting skills ,I wonder how my art teacher tolerated me in 5th grade)
I'll prolly go for some carpet.


Juicing the sub is done by a wire generously donated by a friend I made during the JBL store visit after he was surprised to know that I was running the sub on 3mm wire! He suggested I do a double run, I did just that .Fancy stuff, I say. I feel he was shocked to listen to hear me say 3mm , it was like I was not listening the Greek god of audio. I later realised, why the expression.


I know the grill is cheapo looking, but I don’t care, it does a great job of keeping unwanted hands to “feel” the sub, away.


Haven’t really got around messing with the position of sub, to give maximum performance, eh, pleasure.

The average joe’s HU, has no fancy things that the oh so Audio connoisseur would like to have like TA,3 pre outs et all but it does the job for me. It did not have any sub control for the rear channel pre out which could not be converted into sub mode(weird ; nerds at the Pioneer R&D take note) , so I had to use the “fader-wali-trick”,does the job (jugaad FTW!)

The thing sticking out of HU is a MicroSD card reader with an 8 gig card.


The gains/LPF have been set by someone else, advise if they are correct/suitable.



So there you have it, my swift ICE, or “tun-tuna”


Next part>> The installation gala/ or the horror remake of “I know what you did last summer” LOL

[Invinsible]

Good choice of equipments and well narrated.
Just one suggestion that xover on the B ch. i.e. for the sub, is set little high. This amp has 12db xover when using it under LPF. I suggest you keep the xover point at 80hz instead of keeping it above 100hz. You will notice slight better SQ of the sub once it's broken in.
Secondly I would have liked if the tweeter was set an inch or two higher than what it currently at.
And ya it's not always about the looks as long it sounds good.

[GT500]

Ok here is the third and the final part of the ICE saga, the horror that entailed after the upgrade.


IT’S A LONG POST SO GET READY TO READ A LOT IF YOU ARE READY TO FIND OUT WHATS ALL THE HYPE ABOUT “DRIVEN” IN REALITY.



It all started back in July,after reading numerous posts about the “quality” of work being given at “driven”.


The first stage involved me getting the Bull Audio Components as suggested by the Manager along with a Pioneer Head unit which I agreed to as I had very limited knowledge about audio back then.


While getting this Installed, one of the installer scrapes off plastic from the power window switch holder on the door panel. I pointed this out to the manager who agreed that he will get it rectified after the install is complete.
Install done, and his solution for the plastic scrapping- Put some black tape on it! I’m a little taken aback by the poor quality of the solution and I refused him to use it. I decided to get it rectified later on, as I was short on time. This was back in July.

I faintly remember when a TeamBHPian had faced such an issue with his car, and after bringing it to the attention of the SHOP owner on team BHP, he agreed to get the particular part replaced from his own pocket. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sound-...ml#post1585491) Though I don’t expect such a responsible behaviour, but even the slightest gesture matters.

Fast forward to November, and I’m itching for an Amplifier and a SUB, I thought of giving Driven another chance at my car and after reading numerous positive reviews which came up in this duration.


Wrong choice again!


I decided for bull audio sub and Kenwood AMP that suited my budget, and for the wiring kit I decided to install the JBL 8AWG, as it suited my needs perfectly and told the Mr.Rana(the manager) to procure it for me.
On the Install day, he told me that the JBL 8 AWG kit is no longer available, and he has the Scosche kit which was much better as compared to the JBL kit in his opinion(why wasn’t I Informed about this earlier??), I agreed with his judgement and told him to go forward.
The kit was in transit as we decided this, and the manager promptly gave instructions to his boys to go about and lay other RCA’s required which were available at that time.

While we were finalising the wire etc. He suggested that I use Audison wiring for speakers which costs at about Rs.90 per metre and that the speaker wire that comes with the kit is apparently not very good(?), and I asked that how much approximately would be required for my car, and he told me 10 mtrs!(Which I later found to be much more than required and was confirmed by another installer that I don’t need more than 6 metres to wire from front to the back of the car and the fact I later discovered loops of excess wiring being stored under the carpet ,I also learned that having excess loops will ultimately effect the sound quality )
So in total I’m paying 900 for wiring the components alone, mind you , this is the wire from the AMP to the crossover only.
Sigh, I thought ok,go ahead,a while later the scosche wiring kit arrives. And apparently this also contains some speaker wire (around 20 feet) which was of pretty good quality and was OFC which as per my half baked knowledge was sufficient in terms of gauge too which I later found could save me some money by being utilised instead of using Audison all over,as he did for another customer’s car in front of me.

As the Power kit was being opened I glanced at the Power wire, hmm, this seems to be thin, it read 6.5mm on the side, now at this point I wasn’t aware how many mm thick wire is equal to AWG, so I trusted the Manager’s Judgement on the wire being 8 gauge as he assured me earlier that this is 8.

While this SUB+AMP install was taking place , I asked him if he could do anything about the plastic part that had been damaged in the earlier install, and his response= these things happen and we can’t do anything about them so not point in talking about this anymore. I was a little taken aback by the rude attitude.

As I’m a DIY guy and nothing can replace the feeling of something you made, working in front of you I decided to build my own sub box.( THANKS NAVIN and LBM for the approval and design respectively)
Now I know, SUB boxes aren’t a child’s play, so I did my fare share of research on it before building it,I downloaded the Bull Audio Manual (http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&sou...lFz3RQ&cad=rja) and went through the volumetric requirements of it.
1.25 Cu ft. It said for a balanced application, I built a box measuring 1.26 Cuft.(15.5x15x13inches using 0.75inch thick MDF)
While the sub was being plonked to see if it fits the box I had made, Mr.Rana glances at the box and he’s like WOAH, don’t use this, this is wrong, and the sub won’t work in this big box, and it might damage it. I’m a little taken aback by what he said , yes, the box was a little larger than the usual boxes he sold, yes it wasn’t so fancy looking, BUT, I built it as per specs , with non parallel sides, applied silicon sealant on the edges, and sealed it perfectly.
And now Mr.Rana tells me, that I’m wrong and he instructs his boy to start unscrewing his sub back out.
During this I was pleased to meet Mr.Gunbir who was kind enough to share the ocean of knowledge he had.
As we had this discussion, I asked Mr.Gunbir on his take on my box and he said that, yes, it’s a little larger than the usual boxes they sell but it’ll definitely work. After he gave the go ahead, only then Mr.Rana allowed me to use the box. Phew!

As it turns out the box was perfect and suited my needs and Mr.Gunbir heard it after the install and agreed that the box was working as agreed by him earlier.

After the Install was done, the billing amount was being finalised I instructed Mr.Rana to reimburse me the amount of the damage the installer had done to my door pane.He deducted a mere 250 from the total.Now I enquired about the part from maruti and they say its very difficult to source it from them and I’ll have to buy the whole assembly which contains a lot of unnecessary parts so it turns out to be more than the feeble 250 he deducted and the headache of procuring the part, talk about work ethics.

He also mentioned, that how his “high” value customers don’t even bother at such things, and how he paid 6k to a customer who’s car roof got burnt during an install and how he beard the loss of his installers mistake of poking a drilling machine through the cone of the sub of another customers which apparently costed him 9k(did anyone say workmanship?)

Here is the CLIMAX

After a week or so, I glanced upon the packaging of the Scosche Wiring kit which I had preserved. It mentioned a chart showing Maximum permissible current at full length to be 20 AMPS only!!
I faintly remember the Specs of the AMP saying 36A peak current so I figured that the AMP would definitely require more than 20AMPS at any given point of time.
Further reading led to a chart that mentions the conversion of AWG and MM.(http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do...tml#post257692)

I found that 6.5mm is equal to only 10AWG!!

So I’ve been using a 10AWG(6.5mm) kit all along and assumed that I was using 8AWG(10 mm).

All in all, I’m trying to EXTRACT more current than the specs mentioned on the back of the SCOSCHE KIT!
I felt fooled, still, I wanted to confirm these facts from a couple people I know, I went down to the JBL store in my neighbourhood as they are the principal importer for Scoshe also. This place was full of Audio Gurus who were professionally qualified.
After conversing with them they also convinced me, that it is not recommended to use a power wire beyond its stated specs on the back of the pack. It’s common sense not to use a thing beyond its capability.
I agreed, as these guys were professionals, audio engineers, and the kind of setup they had of JBL products, they meant only one thing- serious audio

I then went to Mr.Rana armed with this info, who was quick to dismiss this fact, and told me that this power is suitable for my AMP and it runs fine and the fact that this is the only kit that was available within my budget for the power kit ~2k( JBL was within this bracket also)


I tried explaining him that thousands out there use “BOSS” wiring kit which is considered to be crap and the AMP still runs, point is, that you told me that this is 8 gauge and sold it to me where as the fact is that this is 10 gauge and maxes out at 20 AMPs which is pretty low for any 4 channel amp.
So you are in fact selling a product which is incapable of carrying such currents required by the amp and you call yourself a professional outfit.

He tries convincing me that 8 gauge is written on the box and I can see it for myself on the box. I tell him to show me and he flies off to find the 8 written on the pack but fails to do so as it’s not there, embarrassing.

A lot of discussion went on and after telling him that I have spoken to the JBL team in Delhi and they concur with me that it’s wrong to use a product beyond its stated capacity, and believe me it was very difficult to do this, I felt harassed and cursed myself of getting the install done here. A fellow BHPian ( blackfire_9) also was facing a similar dilemma.

After that, he tried talking to Mr.Gunbir and gave the phone to me to talk to him and I told him about the 20 AMP power limit mentioned and he agreed that it’s not sufficient for the AMP I have,after that Mr.Rana told me he shall get it changed to a JBL one next week.

I don’t like the “chalta hai” attitude especially when I’ve paid a premium to get fooled.

I tell him I need it now, and he gives me all that jazz that the kit will come only next week and is not available in the market at all, or at least a genuine one.
I called up a place I knew was dealing in such products and they confirmed me the availability of it with them, I trust the place as they sell only with bill and warranty and no grey stuff at all.

I tell Mr. Rana to extract the Power kit from the setup and refund my money which was Rs.1900/- and then he starts making excuses that he has a car coming up for a setup and he cannot take out time for my job, this coming from a person, who told another customer to come while my and another friend of mine’s install was being done. Now I don’t demand exclusivity, but the fact that blackfire’s install was completed at 11.30 in the night because one of the installers was busy in the 3rd customer’s car speaks volumes about the outfit, and yes we told him 4 days in advance about our install.

After disagreeing that the power kit cannot be taken out, I told him that I’ll get the JBL kit arranged and his boys should at least remove their Scosche power kit and install the JBL to correct his judgement on the Scoche kit. To which he replies that I need to pay labour charges! I’m thinking, that this guy makes a technical mistake and he has the courage to tell me that I need to pay labour charges for his mistake!

That’s when I thought, there is no point in convincing him, and I should get the JBL kit installed myself and bear the installation cost from another shop. I then told Mr.Rana that I am ready to bear the cost of installation from another shop and told him that I’ll collect the refund in the evening. A fellow BHPian who had got the install done with me and bought the same kit as mine could not make it to the shop at this time and Mr.Rana talked to him on the phone and agreed to the refund of 1900 for the kit.


Meanwhile I went down to the other installer, who promptly quoted me installation cost of Rs.400 which pinched me as I’m bearing this cost due to the mistake of someone not technically sound.

I agreed , as I was at the limit of my patience and did not want to endure any further harassment from anyone, I had already incurred over a thousand rupees in running about fuel cost, millions of phone calls, and a big headache.

So I paid 2400/- for the install of the kit ,took the bill, and was off, in fact I was so impressed by the installers pace/quality that I tipped him as compared to the DRIVEN’s installer who damaged my door panel. I collected my money the next day from Mr.Rana, who felt as if he had lost WW3 and still disagrees that the wire is 10 AWG.
So we both (blackfire_9) and me got our kits extracted from the car by paying 400 per car as labour and I was off to DRIVEN to collect my money. It was little late, and I met Mr.Rana in the nick of time, but apparently cash was not available with him and he told me to come next morning.
I reached the next day along with Blackfire_9 and then Mr.Rana refused upfront to refund the money for Blackfires’ kit and agreed to only mine(?) ,I asked him the reason why ,and he refused he had agreed to refund the money for blackfires’ kit and agreed to only mine whereas only last night he had a chat with blackfire on the phone in front of me on the acceptance of the refund. And why would he refund the money of my kit only and not blackfires’? We had bought the same kit together and got it installed together and were facing the same technical issue.


Mr. Rana, defiant from the start towards facts which were well validated by now, didn't budge. His approach & attitude seemed more eager to stop the discussion rather than acknowledging the mistake & making efforts to rectify it. Finally, though, we did get the money, but we were left with a botched impression about driven & the kind of ethics & values followed.


ALL IN ALL, a horrifying experience and I estimate the total damage to be approximately 2000 after getting my setup done at DRIVEN which includes running about burning fuel unnecessarily ,numerous phone calls, installation charges paid for getting the JBL kit installed, the part damaged by the installer(power window console on the door panel)
And most importantly time, you go to such outfits to be assured of technically correct workmanship and instead I had to run about to get this sorted, what better are they then the average lajpat nagar or karol bagh shops if they can’t tell what’s compatible with a wire that can carry a max of 20AMP current!!!!!


Now I’m sure the Mr.Rana or even their owners will not refund the Installation cost and other expenses mentioned above that I had to bear because of his mistake be it the power kit, excess loops of audison wire being tucked under the seat cover, the damage to the door panel and the headache, I don’t expect him to, but, even the slightest gesture matters, and shows that he cares about his customers, which clearly has been proven that he doesn’t.


There's no point going into the depths of this matter, & my sole intention is to bring this matter to light, so that people can be made aware & chances of such incidents happening again are minimized.

I will uploads the pics of the damage done to the door panel If need be.


It’s more of a “wham-bham-thank you mam, I’m sorry, do I know you?” kinda attitude.



Other things I noticed :-

>>They are not as professional as they seem to be on this forum, but this purely my opinion.
>> They Sell 10AWG power kits by saying this is 8AWG and expect us to trust them on this simply because they deal in “high” value installs.
>>Highly Overrated.


>>They ARE NOT an AUTHORISED DEALER for JBL and Scosche PRODUCTS!!!
People buying JBL/Scosche products BE AWARE!!!


>>They did not include the Audison wiring and Scosche RCA in the BILL, so apparently I bought it without bill!!(And more importantly they escaped the VAT applicable on such goods it seems,correct me if I'm wrong)
>>They measure the audison wiring being used by estimation as a meter scale is not handy in their shop!!





DISCLAIMER: The contents in the above mentioned post are purely my opinion, and a personal experience.

[desideep]

Very nicely written i have already discussed this issue with Black Fire. beleive it or not. GYRO is expensive but from my first experience i think that Abhimanyu is a great guy to deal with. i Just wish that the Commercialization of the petrol pumps should not have been stopped. They would have been there then.

Anyways any one for DIY i am the game. hehehe

[abhibh]

GT500 first congrats on the new ICE setup, hope you are loving it.

Originally Posted by Gt500

I found that 6.5mm is equal to only 10AWG!!

So I’ve been using a 10AWG(6.5mm) kit all along and assumed that I was using 8AWG(10 mm).

Also i think you are blaming MR Rana regarding the power kit a bit too much. Scosche itself says 6.5mm = ~8gauge. Not Mr. Rana fault if he was sold kit by distributor saying its 8 gauge. I am sure Mr. Rana is not that knowledgeable to measure the gauge size etc.

[GT500]

Originally Posted by abhibh

GT500 first congrats on the new ICE setup, hope you are loving it.


Also i think you are blaming MR Rana regarding the power kit a bit too much. Scosche itself says 6.5mm = ~8gauge. Not Mr. Rana fault if he was sold kit by distributor saying its 8 gauge. I am sure Mr. Rana is not that knowledgeable to measure the gauge size etc.

Thanks , and yes I am loving it.


Ok , Scosche has never mentioned that what gauge the wire is on their packaging, only in terms of mm they are clear. Even Mr.Rana tried to convince me by saying that 8AWG is written on the packaging , but he failed to find that himself. So there is no clarity as to the wire's gauge.



I am not asking Mr.Rana to measure the gauge size, BUT,since you are much more knowledgeable than me on this, you tell, is it wise to draw more current than the stated maximum capacity which was happening in my case ??? :-



So any common man would know that it is wrong to use a product beyond its capacity, no need of measuring gauges here, and having a debate on this.

This limitation is WRITTEN in plain English on the back of the packaging and can be clearly seen, no rocket science involved.

And I am yet to come across an 8 AWG wiring(reputed brand) that maxes out at 20 Amps, which further justifies the fact that this ain't 8 Gauge.

So you see, its just not the gauge but other things also, ethics and attitude included.

Cheers

GT

[desideep]

I would just ask a DUMB question.

According to the pic the MAX current at 11 Feet is 31 AMP.
and did you really had to use 17 FEET or cable?
or did they really use the 17 Feet cable.
cause if i use 17 Feet cable i will take it around the cars once before i take it to the Amplifier

[GT500]

Originally Posted by abhibh

Scosche itself says 6.5mm = ~8gauge.

May I ask the source you got that from, I've searched a lot and could not find scosche mentioning the kit to be 8 gauge.

Originally Posted by desideep

I would just ask a DUMB question.

According to the pic the MAX current at 11 Feet is 31 AMP.
and did you really had to use 17 FEET or cable?
or did they really use the 17 Feet cable.
cause if i use 17 Feet cable i will take it around the cars once before i take it to the Amplifier

Lol, have you tried installing a power kit by yourself??

17 feet might seem a lot on paper but when you get down to installing it , the wire is almost fully utilized and you keep wondering where it went. You have to take into account the bends and curves , a lot of the wire is utilized in the engine bay to route the wire away from moving parts and parts that get hot ,and since the battery is on the opposite side of the bay it has to be sent to the side which has the amp, after that it passes through the firewall, after entering the cabin through the firewall it has to negotiate all the bends and curves of the plastic covers and under the carpet after which it reaches the amp at the back of the seat.

As you can Imagine it not as simple as measuring the car's length and routing the wire outside of it, the wire is inside of it and out of plain view.
It would have been much easier If we could wire the amp by routing the wire outside of the car rather than inside of it. lol

Cheers

GT

[abhibh]

Originally Posted by Gt500

May I ask the source you got that from, I've searched a lot and could not find scosche mentioning the kit to be 8 gauge.

e400 - Scosche E2 8g. 400W Complete Amplifier Kit

SCOSCHE e2 E400 8 Ga Wire Sub/Amplifier Amp Kit w/ RCA - eBay (item 300504593588 end time Jan-12-11 12:40:37 PST)

[blackfire_9]

@abhih: Firstly, I don’t think Scosche mentions anywhere that 6.5mm diameter of their wire is equivalent to 8 guage. In case I am wrong & have missed this somewhere, I request you to kindly share the source.
Also, nobody expects an installer or the shopkeeper to “measure” the guage sizes, even gt500 is not doing that. However, a shopkeeper should know the stuff he/she sells & this is all the more expected when the establishment in question happens to be one that is rated as having technical expertise & one of the best places to get ICE installations done. Plus, from what you are saying, I am assuming it would be okay if suppose I sold you a flat (real estate) saying the covered area is 1500 sq. ft (since the property dealer I bought it from told me so) when the real area is something lesser probably . It won’t be my fault as I got the flat through a property dealer & he told me so, hence I cannot be held accountable.

Moreover, it’s not just about the guage, what about knowing a simple fundamental thing that whether or not the kit in question is suitable/appropriate for the amplifier in gt500’s setup? The kit has a maximum current carrying capacity of 20A, & since M845 would need more than this at any point of time. It’s one thing to be able to run an amplifier on a kit (people run this same amplifier on local kits as well), however it’s an altogether different thing to run it on an “appropriate” kit. He paid a price for an “appropriate” kit & not just something that can simply run the amplifier. He was assured of that, but it didn’t turn out that way.

Lastly, mistakes happen, but what’s important is to be courageous & ethical enough to accept them & look for a resolution towards them. But the attitude was nowhere close to it, rather it was of denial.

@desi: As far as I know, the entire length was utilized. Plus, I have seen that it is common practice amongst most installers to not cut these wires, probably keeping a future upgrade in mind or the cost factor. Also, even if the wire was to be cut, the concerned people involved in the job should have known that but clearly they were not aware. More importantly, he paid with assurance of an 8 guage wire which can carry about 30A at the same length. The current requirement of the amplifier in question for the configuration gt500 is using is approx. 25A (1 bridged *180W + 2*60W) & so the 8 guage is optimum.

Drive safe.

PS: abhih, the links you have posted do not show Scosche saying it. These are commercial sites selling these goods (more like shopkeepers selling goods).