[greenhorn]

A lot of the roads in our locality have been spoilt, and the residents blame tipper lorries for them. Is there some truth to this? Now any tipper lorries which use our road as a shortcut are sent back. The people say their tyres are especially harsh on poorly paved small roads.

[julupani]

The last statement is very correct. The important clause in that sentence is "poorly paved small roads".

Thus you cant really blame the tippers for the damage to the road, its just the fact that our roads are not made properly enough. And the quality gets worse the more the local roads. If the operator feels he save a decent amount by using your locality road, I dont see how you can legally prevent him from using it.

What kind of work, and what size tippers do you generally see??

[msdivy]

Yes. But I don't think the tyres are to blame. Its the weight. The roads are not designed to carry the weight of a lorry laden with stuff.

[greenhorn]

there has been a spate of contruction activity recently with soil being trucked in and out, with one truck operator choosing to use a nearby yard as his base of operations.

About the poorly paved roads, these are small roads through which these trucks barely pass through. regular full length lorries cant. And they've been fine for cars and bikes for years now

the trucks are short AL tippers

[julupani]

The thickness of the roads are probably not enough to withstand the loads that the trucks are carrying. On regular application of higher pressure, roads do tend to crack and finally leading to potholes etc. And considering that the road is also pretty old just compounds matters.

Now as to why the thickness of the road is so low, can be because the contractor building on the road made extra by skimping on the design thickness, or the design thickness itself was low.

But I dont understand, what do you mean by using the yard as a base?? The contractor dumps soil dug up elsewhere here, or just keeps his tippers nearby.I ask, because if the trucks are in the unladen condition, I dont think it would be wise to blame the trucks at all. In that case the road has just reached the end of its life. The trucks may have been the final nail in the coffin so to speak, but not the cause of death as such.

[pypkmsrikanth]

Tipper Lorries certainly screw up the road. The reason being they are as a rule overloaded. The roads are designed for a certain laden weight especially when you are talking of smaller roads which were not designed to carry such "heavy" traffic. So in this context I think the people in your neighborhood are right in sending back Tipper Lorries which are taking a short cut. It is a similar analogy to the mining trucks destroying the NH's around Hubli / Karwar / Mangalore etc.

[julupani]

@srikanth

The overloaded logic does not apply, because any decent road decent will take that factor into account while making the road. Even the truck manufacturers take the overloading at 30% as a fact and design their trucks around that so that it does not cause any adverse effect on the life. Though I am not sure the road in consideration here was designed properly or not. But you cant take ill designed roads as the norm.

As for mining trucks, the trucks which carry areas from the mines on to the highways are normal highway trucks and not mining trucks. Mining trucks are allowed to carry a much higher weight for the same number of axles, other than many other differences.

So a 25ton tipper, mining or not, is the same, and will probably be overloaded to the tune of around 30ton on average.

[vina]

Originally Posted by pypkmsrikanth

Tipper Lorries certainly screw up the road. The reason being they are as a rule overloaded. The roads are designed for a certain laden weight especially when you are talking of smaller roads which were not designed to carry such "heavy" traffic. So in this context I think the people in your neighborhood are right in sending back Tipper Lorries which are taking a short cut. It is a similar analogy to the mining trucks destroying the NH's around Hubli / Karwar / Mangalore etc.

There are different standards for thickness, materials etc. for different kind of roads. Even regular traffic of heavy vehicle (buses, unladen trucks) can damage roads found in residential colonies, even if those are built well, and most are not built well.

[dhanushs]

Well, usually what happens is that, if there are minor potholes in the roads, then these tipper lorry's make it bigger. Also, sides of roads are chipped off due to tipper lorrys.

A two or four wheeler does not have enough weight or tyres to chip off 'road' from its sides. Also, a small potholes definitely get bigger, but then, tipper lorry's make the process parabolic.

[julupani]

@Dhanush

Again, true heavy vehicles will tend to cause more damage to a road as a rule. But you cant really stop using them can you. The simple reason they weigh more. Similarly a 2ton SUV does more damage than a 700kg Maruti Alto.

Also, its not so much the tyres, but the weight per unit contact area, that is pressure on the road that matters.

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by vina

There are different standards for thickness, materials etc. for different kind of roads. Even regular traffic of heavy vehicle (buses, unladen trucks) can damage roads found in residential colonies, even if those are built well, and most are not built well.

That was spot on. Roads in residential areas are not designed to take the load of tippers and heavy lorries, which is why they get damaged.

Greenhorn has also mentioned that the "width" of the road is not designed to take in heavy vehicles, which is a very strong indication that the road wasn't laid keeping trucks/tippers in mind.

I wouldn't say the road is poorly paved, unless it was getting spoilt by regular car/bike usage (or rains) even when the tippers were not around. If it was doing fine at that time, then I feel it is unfair to blame the road builder without proper justification. Perhaps greenhorn can elaborate on this point.

@ greenhorn: I would suggest that you and fellow residents form a group to meet the representative in your area (corporator?), and ask him to put up height-restricting barricades at all entry points of your residential area to prevent heavy vehicles from entering, as they are not only spoiling the roads, but are also a risk to pedestrians and children playing on the road. They also pollute a lot, both in terms of air and noise.

I believe there is also a law banning heavy transport vehicles from entering residential areas without permission for these very reasons; any law expert among us who can comment?

- Bullitt

[bblost]

Don't they put up those football goal posts kinda thing to prevent taller vehicles from getting in.

Seen these on a lot of interior roads.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by pypkmsrikanth

Tipper Lorries certainly screw up the road. The reason being they are as a rule overloaded. The roads are designed for a certain laden weight especially when you are talking of smaller roads which were not designed to carry such "heavy" traffic. So in this context I think the people in your neighborhood are right in sending back Tipper Lorries which are taking a short cut. It is a similar analogy to the mining trucks destroying the NH's around Hubli / Karwar / Mangalore etc.

Exactly.
The roads are firstly not built to sustain the kind of weight these lorries pressure. And secondly, the roads are not even built for the weight they are supposed to be carry; contractors often manipulate the tar-asphalt mixture to reduce costs and maximize profits.

The Shiradi ghats are almost always in bad state because of the mining trucks - the roads just cannot take the weight.

Originally Posted by julupani

@srikanth

The overloaded logic does not apply, because any decent road decent will take that factor into account while making the road. Even the truck manufacturers take the overloading at 30% as a fact and design their trucks around that so that it does not cause any adverse effect on the life. Though I am not sure the road in consideration here was designed properly or not. But you cant take ill designed roads as the norm.

As for mining trucks, the trucks which carry areas from the mines on to the highways are normal highway trucks and not mining trucks. Mining trucks are allowed to carry a much higher weight for the same number of axles, other than many other differences.

So a 25ton tipper, mining or not, is the same, and will probably be overloaded to the tune of around 30ton on average.

Oh yes, the roads do get damaged by the overloading.

Originally Posted by bblost

Don't they put up those football goal posts kinda thing to prevent taller vehicles from getting in.

Seen these on a lot of interior roads.

Very few places have them still erect now; they are put up with all fanfare. One fine day, it is dented and a few days later, it is taken off.

Entrances in many lanes in BTM have short (3ft) concrete blocks placed in such a way that only a small car (800, Alto type) can enter/exit and that too only when perpendicular.

[julupani]

@Bullitt,

True local roads would probably not take into account regular use by a heavy vehicles. But even then a properly made road, will not wilt under the pressure of heavily vehicles, unless it is already close to the end of its life and has sustained previous damage.

A newly laid local road too would not start getting damaged by heavy vehicles.

Most cities dont allow heavy vehicles to operate within city limits, except in special cases like large construction projects may undertake the use of heavy vehicles, but I think there is some extra fee involved for obtaining such a permit. If the operator has such a permit he is within the law and has paid the extra money to damage local roads.

I know in my city smaller construction projects like houses etc are now forced to use tractors or LCVs if they have to get work done, because the police does not allow heavy vehicles to enter. Only the larger contractors can afford to use the heavy vehicles for their projects. And this is without any height restrictors anywhere.

The height restrictors are just that. They are not meant to prevent heavy vehicles, but vehicles which cannot pass through on that road due to certain limitations, most common being electrifed railway lines, low bridges or low overhead wires.

But contacting your local corporator to find out what the actual legal situation is a good idea.

[vina]

Originally Posted by julupani

@Dhanush

Again, true heavy vehicles will tend to cause more damage to a road as a rule. But you cant really stop using them can you. The simple reason they weigh more. Similarly a 2ton SUV does more damage than a 700kg Maruti Alto.

Also, its not so much the tyres, but the weight per unit contact area, that is pressure on the road that matters.

julupani - you are right about the pressure, but the measurement is a little trickier than weight/tyre contact area.

for one not all of the tyre carries equal weight. Also the tyres for heavier vehicles have bigger contacts areas. In fact the average pressure on the road will be similar to the air pressure in the tyre and that doesn't vary by much in passenger vehicles.

The road is damaged (at first) not at the surface, but beneath the surface. If you have seen highways being built, they first dig up the road, fill it up with layer of rocks of different sizes and then tar it. The rocks stuff is the foundation of the road (and that is why highways don't get damaged by normal buses) - and that is not done well for residential roads.

Now when you put any weight on such a road, the weight gets distributed, layer by layer, into a larger area in every layer.


another thing is acceleration and braking. when the vehicle is stationary, the pressure on the road is the vehicle's weight. For a moving (slow constant speed) vehicle, pressure on the leading edges of the tyre is more than at trailing edge, but still average pressure is same as that for a stationary vehicle, and it doesn't even last long. Also most of it is perpendicular to road surface (the wind resistance of the vehicle apart), most brittle materials (concrete for example, or any other road material) can take compressive stresses far better than tensile stresses.

When a vehicle accelerates (or brakes), it puts a lot of horizontal forces on the road surface. These tend to sheer the surface and require the road to have tensile strength - which it doesn't have much of.

Heavier vehicles cause more of the above.

there are more factors (soft suspension not only makes your ride more comfortable, it reduces impulse size seen by the road as well) that road engineers will tell you.


Bottomline is, residential area roads are not built to take such stresses even when they are well built.

I think you should complain to the authorities (or make an association and protest against this contractor)