[KMohanan]

Originally Posted by DieselAddikt

There is one in Vyttila. A month back I had seen this vehicle in front of a showroom that was being built. Now I guess it would be open. It is on the left side after Vytilla junction while travelling towards Aroor. Cheers ! And do post your impressions if you manage a TD.

For the next 10 days, mostly, I will be out of station. I will test drive after that.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by directinjection

I'm happy to see AL take the longer and riskier route of designing and developing a product on its own (Tata style)

Tata has taken both routes - Designing and developing and also bringing their international partners products/subsidiaries into India.

Originally Posted by directinjection

Wasn't aware of this development. Where has it been launched?

I think its only a limited lauch - till they have not made their roads into TN - alteast I have not seen any so far in chennai.
There are more products that are to enter TN like Super Ace.

Originally Posted by directinjection

Mahindra and AL could also have taken the IDI route for Maxximo

Surprisingly Mahindra has mentioned this engine as Direct Injection Diesel engine in their website.
Source : http://www.mahindramaxximo.com/index.asp

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by julupani

Thanks, thought that was only about the Dost's design philosophy.

By the way, the article clearly says that the Dost is a ALL-Nissan partnership product and its P15 engine is a Nissan engine that has been "localised". ...

You are Welcome!
BTW, There is nothing told that P15 is a Nissan engine and been localized.
Its only told localized.
Hope there is difference known between localisation and Indigenisation. Should agree that the report is not clear and have brought so much ambiguity.
Also globally Nissan do not have any engine as P15 available for AL(JV) to localise.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

I think its only a limited lauch - till they have not made their roads into TN - alteast I have not seen any so far in chennai.
There are more products that are to enter TN like Super Ace.

Well, I dont think the Super Ace is BSIV compliant yet, so you may not see them in Chennai proper. For BSIV compliance they have to shift to the CR4 engine.

Originally Posted by Ashley2

Surprisingly Mahindra has mentioned this engine as Direct Injection Diesel engine in their website.
Source : http://www.mahindramaxximo.com/index.asp

Technically, even common rail systems are direct injection too. So this is not wrong.

Originally Posted by Ashley2

You are Welcome!
BTW, There is nothing told that P15 is a Nissan engine and been localized.
Its only told localized.
Hope there is difference known between localisation and Indigenisation. Should agree that the report is not clear and have brought so much ambiguity.
Also globally Nissan do not have any engine as P15 available for AL(JV) to localise.

Quoting from the article:

The engines powering these vehicle platforms include the 55hp P15 engine(for the Dost), the upto 150hp ZD30 engine(Atlas and Civilian platforms), and the 80-90hp K9 Renault engine(for the NSV platform). While the P15 engine has been wholly localised and ZD30 is envisaged to be in future, indigenisation of the K9 engine will depend upon branding and volume considerations.

To me this sentence clearly tells me that P15 and ZD30 are Nissan engines, while K9 is a Renault engine. It also tells me that the P15 engine has been localised, that is it will be made purely from locally made parts rather than imported parts. The ZD30 will also be made in this manner, while no such decision has been taken for the K9 engines.

Even if you are not convinced of that, I am sure you agree that ALL did nothing except help local suppliers in production if parts for the P15 engine. They did not contribute in anyway to its design.

The difference between indigenisation and localisation is basically that localisation involves producing the parts to the exact same specification as they are else where in the world, while indigenisation generally involves localisation with suitable changes to specifications as are needed to perform in conditions specific to India. For engines, these normally involve having to deal with dirtier air and dirtier fuel, and also slight detuning of engines. But in reality many a time both these terms are used interchangeably.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by julupani

Well, I dont think the Super Ace is BSIV compliant yet, so you may not see them in Chennai proper. For BSIV compliance they have to shift to the CR4 engine.

Kindly do not find answers for all my queries.
I can have examples where there is no BS IV.
If its not limited launch then I can say it has not got the required response / or I have not been watchful, as I have not seen anything in road yet.

Originally Posted by julupani

Technically, even common rail systems are direct injection too. So this is not wrong.

I never told its wrong.
I told out of surprise - No manufacture uses the term Direct injection for a common rail engine. Its the purpose of that post.

Originally Posted by julupani

Quoting from the article:

To me this sentence clearly tells me that P15 and ZD30 are Nissan engines, while K9 is a Renault engine. It also tells me that the P15 engine has been localised, that is it will be made purely from locally made parts rather than imported parts. The ZD30 will also be made in this manner, while no such decision has been taken for the K9 engines.

You have made so much effort in localising the content but could have taken time to get some correct information ..

I can very well say that the engine is developed by AL only.
Plz get in touch with some right sources and enlighten yourself or if you dont have sources better dont contradict with your understandings from secondary sources.

Originally Posted by julupani

Even if you are not convinced of that, I am sure you agree that ALL did nothing except help local suppliers in production if parts for the P15 engine. They did not contribute in anyway to its design.

Oops! Thanks for limiting your statement to engine development alone.
Hope you dont tell us all that AL has done nothing except badging the Dost as Ashok Leyland

[julupani]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

You have made so much effort in localising the content but could have taken time to get some correct information ..

I can very well say that the engine is developed by AL only.
Plz get in touch with some right sources and enlighten yourself or if you dont have sources better dont contradict with your understandings from secondary sources.


Oops! Thanks for limiting your statement to engine development alone.
Hope you dont tell us all that AL has done nothing except badging the Dost as Ashok Leyland

My only source of information is that article and whatever else is there in public domain. The article I see happens to be part of some sort of internal newsletter of ALL. And I am making my inferences from that article. If the engine is actually an full in-house effort and not an adaptation to Indian conditions, I think the newsletter would have made it clear.

As of now, that newsletter to me is the best source of info, and I am making inferences based on it.

PS: Each time I answer to your post, I am not trying to counter you or make you look bad or something. This is not a competition to me. I am just adding further information to the thread or stating my opinion based on facts at my disposal.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by julupani

PS: Each time I answer to your post, I am not trying to counter you or make you look bad or something. This is not a competition to me. I am just adding further information to the thread or stating my opinion based on facts at my disposal.

Keep revving

[Transsenger]

Tata has already started selling SuperAce in kerala, well before AL DOST steps'in. The vehicle is bigger than normal ACE and seems to be done on a new platform. Here are some details;

Engine: Tata 475IDI BS3, 4Cyl Turbo
Power: 52Kw @ 4500rpm
Torque: 135Nm @ 2500rpm
Gearbox: 5 speed
Power Steering
Brakes: Front - Disc
Rear - Drum
Tyres: 168 R 14
Suspension: Front - Independent
Rear - Leaf spring
Cabin: A/c, power window, clock, central lock etc

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by Transsenger

Tata has already started selling SuperAce in kerala, well before AL DOST steps'in. The vehicle is bigger than normal ACE and seems to be done on a new platform.

Thanks for the info!
What's the market response to Super Ace?

Originally Posted by Transsenger

Here are some details;

Engine: Tata 475IDI BS3, 4Cyl Turbo
Power: 52Kw @ 4500rpm
Torque: 135Nm @ 2500rpm

Shouldn't a load carrier be developing its peak power and torque at much lower RPMs? The engine specs seem unaltered from those of IDI Indica.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Shouldn't a load carrier be developing its peak power and torque at much lower RPMs? The engine specs seem unaltered from those of IDI Indica.

That's the main problem with the Super Ace, it has an engine that was basically made for the Indica, and is still used in it. One thing it gives the Super Ace is top speed of 125kph, something which no CV owner ever looks for. The engine is ok, as long as you stick to the 1ton payload, but I doubt it will take kindly to overloading.

[silversteed]

Does anybody know if there's a people mover version of the DOST on the cards? Would be interesting to see another competitor to the the ACE Magic and the Maxximo mini van

[julupani]

Originally Posted by silversteed

Does anybody know if there's a people mover version of the DOST on the cards? Would be interesting to see another competitor to the the ACE Magic and the Maxximo mini van

Even if there is a people mover version of the Dost, it is not likely to compete with the Ace Magic, or with the Maxximo Mini van, both of which will be much cheaper. Remember the Dost is actually one level above the Ace and the Maxximo.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by julupani

That's the main problem with the Super Ace, it has an engine that was basically made for the Indica, and is still used in it. One thing it gives the Super Ace is top speed of 125kph, something which no CV owner ever looks for. The engine is ok, as long as you stick to the 1ton payload, but I doubt it will take kindly to overloading.

The peak RPM of Ace engine were limited to 3200 in keeping with the vehicle's character and usage, although it too was Indica derived. So it's curious why the same philosophy hasn't been followed for Super Ace. May be because the Ace was designed keeping purely the Indian market in mind while Super Ace was designed keeping the international market in mind first. It's design work involved a foreign consultant, unlike Ace.

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by julupani

Even if there is a people mover version of the Dost, it is not likely to compete with the Ace Magic, or with the Maxximo Mini van, both of which will be much cheaper. Remember the Dost is actually one level above the Ace and the Maxximo.

Good point... It will be one notch above Ace Magic and Maxximo. The only contender, IF such a vehicle materializes, would be the Venture and the like, but obviously it requires the 3-cyl engine to be tuned for more power and torque, which I believe is possible.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by silversteed

Good point... It will be one notch above Ace Magic and Maxximo. The only contender, IF such a vehicle materializes, would be the Venture and the like, but obviously it requires the 3-cyl engine to be tuned for more power and torque, which I believe is possible.

Correct, there is also the question of the Leyland badge in this market. Here I think the ALL-Nissan JV would prefer to take the Nissan badge rather than the Leyland badge.