[turbospooler]

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

Anyways the 6.4 liter engine is not directly made by BB in India. AFAIK It is assembled by Avtec in Pithampur with a lot of locally sourced parts going in. It may not be prudent to expect 'Actros' reliability in the BB offerings. It is made in India by Indians, for Indians.

Does that mean that if it is failing in some situations, the blame lies due to Indian manufacturing and if it succeeds then its the miracle of German Engineering?
The only fact is that the test beds of BB have failed initially but I am sure they will provide some solution. @Autokrat: did you happen to know why the engines failed?

[hubolt]

I think the cowl market has not gone away and is very much an in-demand variant for trucks especially in tough times such as these. No matter what the marketing consultants who over the years visited india (from the comfort of their 5 star hotels) and went back and told their fellow OEM's back home.

Those with fundamentally light designs continue to meet the expectations of a majority of customers and the low cost truck cabin makers/ body builders are still running their chain.

MNAL , rather late in the day finally went the cowl way. Though, since it being an after thought, still doesn't quite match up to ground up concepts from tata and leyland.

Well BB and MAN what are you waiting for - c'mon atleast an MNAL? The BB design looks lighter might come closer to Tata even.

[SAE40 in veins]

Originally Posted by turbospooler

Does that mean that if it is failing in some situations, the blame lies due to Indian manufacturing and if it succeeds then its the miracle of German Engineering?
The only fact is that the test beds of BB have failed initially but I am sure they will provide some solution. @Autokrat: did you happen to know why the engines failed?

The interpretation is incorrect. 6.4 liter is very much a proven engine in the Mercedes Axxor over the last many years and what has changed is the location of manufacturing and nothing else.

Lets admit it Turbospooler, Indian manufacturing is not yet upto the mark when it comes to comparing ourselves with the Japanese or Europeans.

To give you a German spec example, the Ventos made in India catch fire often(you may check in this forum) but the same Polo Platform based vehicles do not catch fire in Germany. The culprit may be a wrongly routed wiring harness but it is enough to cause a fire and kill the driver.

Similarly the engines can fail due to a minor oil leak in the sump (leading to oil starvation and subsequent seizure)or a failed seal in the air filter which would have led to dust ingress and further damage. I am not blaming the manufacturing here but the fact that a lot of vendors are new and these teething issues happen before product maturity for every manufacturer.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

Lets admit it Turbospooler, Indian manufacturing is not yet upto the mark when it comes to comparing ourselves with the Japanese or Europeans.

Not everywhere and certainly not in the auto sector.

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

To give you a German spec example, the Ventos made in India catch fire often(you may check in this forum) but the same Polo Platform based vehicles do not catch fire in Germany. The culprit may be a wrongly routed wiring harness but it is enough to cause a fire and kill the driver.

It has not been proved that the reason for the vehicle catching fire is low grade or defective manufacturing. In fact, most plants in India, especially set up by the Germans are known to be the their best in the world.

OT: These fires are usually a result of careless fitment of aftermarket accessories, rat infestations, our hot weather and high humidity levels coupled with a dusty environment.

[turbospooler]

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

The interpretation is incorrect. 6.4 liter is very much a proven engine in the Mercedes Axxor over the last many years and what has changed is the location of manufacturing and nothing else.

Lets admit it Turbospooler, Indian manufacturing is not yet upto the mark when it comes to comparing ourselves with the Japanese or Europeans.

To give you a German spec example, the Ventos made in India catch fire often(you may check in this forum) but the same Polo Platform based vehicles do not catch fire in Germany. The culprit may be a wrongly routed wiring harness but it is enough to cause a fire and kill the driver.

Similarly the engines can fail due to a minor oil leak in the sump (leading to oil starvation and subsequent seizure)or a failed seal in the air filter which would have led to dust ingress and further damage. I am not blaming the manufacturing here but the fact that a lot of vendors are new and these teething issues happen before product maturity for every manufacturer.

All major technology transfers contain a major part of HR related training so that things can fall into place easily. Agreed that sometimes the new technology cannot be completely grasped or localised but this is where Merc is an expert (they outsourced their paintings to TML & we know they were great) in getting work done despite facilities.
The Ventos made in India will now be exported too and hence I am attributing the failure to mindless cost cutting during localization.
As you have rightly said a failed seal may threaten the entire assy, but if the training given (for quality checking/ manufacturing) is not up to the mark, we cannot make world class stuff.
This is where European nations have a huge database of what had gone wrong and know what has to be implemented to avoid such errors.
So to summarize, I want to say that Indians are late entrants into technology manufacturing but if given good training can make great products.

[SAE40 in veins]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

OT: These fires are usually a result of careless fitment of aftermarket accessories, rat infestations, our hot weather and high humidity levels coupled with a dusty environment.

These usage patterns are known to all 'SENSIBLE' manufacturers and they design vehicles accordingly. If fitting additional speakers or an accessory can burn a vehicle, then that manufacturer must be BANNED from making vehicles. If the Manufacturer has not done proper study of the Indian market and tuned his vehicles accordingly(Rats and humidity), again the problem lies with the manufacturer and not the hapless customer who wouldn't suspect his vehicle to go up in flames.

I'll give you a BB example again. I have surveyed many BB vehicles in the last two months and have found that the plastic parts near the grille and the driver door looks cracked in many of the vehicles. This is more prominent near the driver foot steps. This clearly shows lack of understanding of the Indian market. Another fleet owner complained that the front leaf springs go in negative camber at rated load because of which the cops stop the vehicles often and take to weigh bridge to check for overloading. Here the vehicle is not the culprit but the mindset of the policeman. In short knowing the market is not just about creating good vehicles but also knowing these seemingly silly things too.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins

These usage patterns are known to all 'SENSIBLE' manufacturers and they design vehicles accordingly. If fitting additional speakers or an accessory can burn a vehicle, then that manufacturer must be BANNED from making vehicles.

So if I buy a car, and get an electrical accessory installed incorrectly/carelessly resulting in short circuit and a consequent fire, is the manufacturer to blame?

ALL manufacturers, without exception, clearly, in writing, state that the installation of aftermarket accessories, particularly electrical, will void the warranty.

I would suggest you get your facts right before such comments.

This is going OT and hence, is my last post here on this topic.

[SAE40 in veins]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

So if I buy a car, and get an electrical accessory installed incorrectly/carelessly resulting in short circuit and a consequent fire, is the manufacturer to blame?

Manufacturers keep electrical provisions in vehicles for accessories. This is global practise and not specific to India.

What catches fire is not what creates the short circuit but the materials used inside the vehicle. Just for example if you go by JNNURM tender documents, you can see the fire retardent clause sitting there. When fires propagate from the Bonnet, it will not be prudent to blame a subwoofer sitting in the boot. Yes, a stray wrong accessory may cause a short circuit, but then thermal incidences are the hallmark of certain 'Brands' in India if you had been following the Industry closely which clearly points to the responsibility that a manufacturer has.
Going OT and i drop my arguement here. Good day