[SCORPION]

As per reports in the Times of India, Singapore Airlines has restarted operating flights on the Singapore, Changi - Newark, Liberty International sector on the 11th of October 2018. The aircraft will stay in the air for an unbelievable 19 hours covering a distance of 16,700 kms!

Apparently the next longest route is the Doha - Auckland sector operated by Qatar Airways which is almost 500 miles shorter.

The service is being operated with the Airbus A350-900ULR - ULR obviously meaning Ultra Long Range. Apparently, the airlines was operating on the same route with four-engined A340-500s, before abandoning it in 2013 due to high fuel costs. The A350-900ULR is a twin engined aircraft using a modified system burning 25% less fuel than similarly sized aircrafts.

However, while similarly sized aircrafts can carry over 300 passengers, this aircraft, on this route, is limited to 161 passengers only. 67 business class seats and 94 premium economy seats. Initially I was wondering why, then it dawned on me that no sane person would want to spend 19 hours crammed in an economy seat. That would be equivalent to torturing oneself.

1200 hours of entertainment is available and the cabin has higher than normal ceilings, windows and lighting designed to reduce jet lag.

Crew consists of 2 pilots, 2 first officers and 13 cabin crew. Each pilot will have a minimum 8 hours rest during the flight.

Link to the same news on BBC:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45795573

[libranof1987]

The main keyword here is: relaunch.

Here's some trivia on this flight:

Singapore Airlines is all set to regain the crown of the world’s longest flight operator, five years after they gave it away by shutting down the Singapore – Newark and Singapore – Los Angeles operations (the world’s longest and second longest flights). They shut down the route given the route economics did not work for them anymore with a gas-guzzling A340-500 on the route. So they gave them back to Airbus, who instead set out to work on the A350-900ULR for them.

Now, Singapore Airlines will launch the world’s longest commercial flights in October 2018, with non-stop services between Singapore and New York using the new Airbus A350-900ULR (ultra-long-range). Last month, the first test flight of the aircraft was completed.

Flights are to be launched on 11 October 2018, to Newark Liberty International Airport. The route will initially be served three times a week, departing Singapore on Monday, Thursday and Saturday. Daily operations will commence from 18 October after an additional A350-900ULR aircraft enters service. The first A350-900ULR is due for delivery in September, with all seven due for delivery by the end of the year.

https://livefromalounge.boardingarea...pore-airlines/

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by SCORPION

However, while similarly sized aircrafts can carry over 300 passengers, this aircraft, on this route, is limited to 161 passengers only. 67 business class seats and 94 premium economy seats. Initially I was wondering why, then it dawned on me that no sane person would want to spend 19 hours crammed in an economy seat. That would be equivalent to torturing oneself.

Yes. And less payload (by carrying less number of passengers) will also aid in ensuring the range.

[silverado]

Originally Posted by SCORPION

Crew consists of 2 pilots, 2 first officers and 13 cabin crew. Each pilot will have a minimum 8 hours rest during the flight.

Link to the same news on BBC:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45795573

Just 2 pilots on such a long haul, tells us how well Autopilot works!
19 hours, 2 pilots and minimum 8 hours rest, i guess its 8 hours of total rest.

But spare a thought for the passengers doing this journey. Even someone who is excited for first flight will be eventually bored by the end of journey.

[airbus]

Originally Posted by silverado

Just 2 pilots on such a long haul, tells us how well Autopilot works!
19 hours, 2 pilots and minimum 8 hours rest, i guess its 8 hours of total rest.

I think there will be two captains and two first officers, so total four pilots.

I have traveled the Dubai - San Francisco route couple of times in Boeing 777-300ER and Airbus A380-800, which is around 16 hours. I did not face much problem in traveling economy class.

[SCORPION]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

Yes. And less payload (by carrying less number of passengers) will also aid in ensuring the range.

Thanks! Makes sense. But it also means that 161 people are paying for something that 300 odd people would have normally shared, albeit at different rates. Tickets must be really expensive.

Originally Posted by silverado

Just 2 pilots on such a long haul, tells us how well Autopilot works!
19 hours, 2 pilots and minimum 8 hours rest, i guess its 8 hours of total rest.

But spare a thought for the passengers doing this journey. Even someone who is excited for first flight will be eventually bored by the end of journey.

I don't know how it works on flights. Going off topic here. Just for comparison (and to shed light on a rarely discussed topic). Ships sail 24 hours a day for days together. Officers do 4 hour stints, twice a day, on the bridge with the junior most officer taking the 8 to 12 shift, followed by 8 hours of rest/other work. During exceptional circumstances it might be stretched to 6 hours on the bridge by 2 officers, and 6 hours of rest. Open sea is as good as cruising at 38000 feet with hardly any traffic. Navigation taken care of by autopilot. However, things can be very hectic and stressful while sailing close to land or approaching ports. Passing through the Singapore straits and the English channel can give you several mini heart attacks and can reduce your life expectancy by a great extent. Unlike airline pilots, ships officers are not allowed to sit when they are in charge of the bridge. Few ships have chairs on rails and stuff. Anyway, will come back to the topic now.

Passengers either have to take the 19 hour flight or suffer stop overs at airports and take longer routes, taking the total travel time way more than 19 hours. So I guess this is a better option.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by silverado

Just 2 pilots on such a long haul, tells us how well Autopilot works!
19 hours, 2 pilots and minimum 8 hours rest, i guess its 8 hours of total rest.

But spare a thought for the passengers doing this journey. Even someone who is excited for first flight will be eventually bored by the end of journey.

Such a long flight will always by law carry two sets of crew for the flight deck and about one and a half sets for the cabin. I have flown the Newark-Singapore leg twice - albeit business - 19 hours was no problem. I have also done the Delhi-JFK Air India in economy, 17 hours twice, no problem. I am 58. It is all in the mind.

[Hayek]

Makes immense sense for folks from Singapore and South East Asia, but irrelevant for Indians except as a curiosity. My preferred choice on Bombay New York is the United non stop - lands at 530am in Newark and leaves at 8 PM - letting you get a full day or two of work done with minimal downtime. Unfortunately fares on that flight are usually very high - so for longer trips, I stick to the conventional EK / EY / BA / LH connecting flights. But if you had the choice, there is no reason not to fly point to point. Hopefully, some more airlines acquire similar air craft, and we are able to turn the days of wasting 3 hours connecting through a hub into a bad memory.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by silverado

...

But spare a thought for the passengers doing this journey...

Tell me about it. I have taken Dubai to Adelaide twice(Emirates- Boeing 777) due to unavoidable circumstances and that's 12 hours non-stop. Boy!!! I was bored to death

I just can't imagine myself on a 19 hours non-stop journey

[hema4saran]

Originally Posted by SCORPION

Thanks! Makes sense. But it also means that 161 people are paying for something that 300 odd people would have normally shared, albeit at different rates. Tickets must be really expensive.

They have almost 70 business class seats which is higher than normal 777-300ER. And as far as I know premium economy is costlier than regular economy and stands between economy and business class. Premium economy tickets are generally 50 to 80% costlier than economy and that way carrying 161 people is more than enough to cover costs provided the flight is full.

19 hours is fine for people who don't want to have layover times at airports. If given an opportunity, I would take long haul flights than layovers. I hate the security checks and waiting for boarding announcement.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by airbus

I think there will be two captains and two first officers, so total four pilots.
.

Yes, something like that, or to say it somewhat differently, there will be four pilots on board. Not sure about two captains. It might be one captain with three first officers. On many existing long haul flight you would find one captain and two first officers as it is. During easy stretches the captain will leave the cockpit to get his/her rest. (remember AF44)

If they have two captains on board I wonder how that would work in terms who has the final authority? That might still be only one designated pilot/captain.

Originally Posted by SCORPION

Going off topic here. Just for comparison (and to shed light on a rarely discussed topic). Ships sail 24 hours a day for days together. Officers do 4 hour stints, twice a day, on the bridge with the junior most officer taking the 8 to 12 shift, followed by 8 hours of rest/other work. During exceptional circumstances it might be stretched to 6 hours on the bridge by 2 officers, and 6 hours of rest. Open sea is as good as cruising at 38000 feet with hardly any traffic.. Unlike airline pilots, ships officers are not allowed to sit when they are in charge of the bridge. Few ships have chairs on rail

When I worked in the merchant navy / off shore, things were a bit different. Regular merchant navy was usually 4 on / 8 off. But everybody tended to work at least 10-12 hours a day anyway. For the overtime and there was always a lot of work. Especially in the offshore and on ocean going tugs everybody worked 6 hours on 6 hours off. On oil rigs everybody worked 12 hours on / 12 hours off. NO overtime, just huge all-in salaries.

During hectic times, especially during rig moves, I was not unusual to be on your feet upwards of 36 hours. Nobody had heard of OHS (occupational Health and Safety, and it was a very tough / macho world.

These days plenty of ships have chairs on the bridge. In fact, when I started at sea (1979) we had chairs on the bridge (and engine room) and we would use them too!

Jeroen

[SCORPION]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

When I worked in the merchant navy / off shore, things were a bit different. Regular merchant navy was usually 4 on / 8 off. But everybody tended to work at least 10-12 hours a day anyway. For the overtime and there was always a lot of work.

. As a Master Mariner sailing on LNG ships, let me assure you things are not any different now. It has only gotten worse, with us trying to juggle a million new regulations each day, and comply with the rest hour requirements at the same time. Many times it is just impossible to comply with rest hour requirements with tremendous commercial pressure on the senior management. LNG vessels, at least the ones that I work on, have an additional junior officer to take care of navigation duties so it puts less pressure on the officers.

Commercial airline industry is quite a well known subject to many, not the intricacies, but basic information at least, because passengers are involved and it is a fairly open industry with a lot of information being propagated via the media. Commercial shipping is an unknown subject to many because only cargo is involved and it is more or less a very secretive industry.

[GTO]

Not for most people, but definitely my kind of flight. I'd flown Bombay - Atlanta direct and it was IIRC 16.5 hours. Of that, I slept straight for ~14 hours after borrowing a sleeping pill from my Mom. Woke up, ate a meal, watched a movie and I was in the USA! I rarely ever suffer from jetlag, so it just didn't feel like a long flight.

On the other hand, I can totally understand why some people would prefer to split a long journey into two flights and stretch out / explore an airport in between. Taking a break and boarding a fresher airplane has undeniable benefits.

[the_skyliner]

I would opt a non-stop flight when traveling alone but when traveling with family and especially kids, I would prefer to break the journey in between and take a couple of hours lay-over.

A couple of years ago, I flew from Abu-Dhabi to Dallas and that was some 16 hours flight in economy class. Was a comfortable flight mainly due to being Etihad. Their seats as well as cabin service is top class.

ULR is quite in demand at present and we will see more of these long haul flights in coming years.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Such a long flight will always by law carry two sets of crew for the flight deck and about one and a half sets for the cabin. I have flown the Newark-Singapore leg twice - albeit business - 19 hours was no problem. I have also done the Delhi-JFK Air India in economy, 17 hours twice, no problem. I am 58. It is all in the mind.

Originally Posted by GTO

Not for most people, but definitely my kind of flight. I'd flown Bombay - Atlanta direct and it was IIRC 16.5 hours. Of that, I slept straight for ~14 hours after borrowing a sleeping pill from my Mom. Woke up, ate a meal, watched a movie and I was in the USA! I rarely ever suffer from jetlag, so it just didn't feel like a long flight.

Same for me; I have done the Singapore - Newark sector a few times back in 2006-07, and I preferred this compared to the options with stop-over from Singapore. It was so much easier to plan the sleep schedules being Singapore Airlines, the service was always immaculate (especially in the business class). In fact I feel it much more sense than the other options from Singapore – say fly via HK or Tokyo.

Originally Posted by SCORPION

However, while similarly sized aircrafts can carry over 300 passengers, this aircraft, on this route, is limited to 161 passengers only. 67 business class seats and 94 premium economy seats.

They used to have regular economy (when this sector was in service earlier). But with mostly business travelers the business class used to get filled up fast, leaving a lot of vacant economy class seats. I think for a couple of years before closing, they actually converted it into an all-business class flight.

Originally Posted by SCORPION

Initially I was wondering why, then it dawned on me that no sane person would want to spend 19 hours crammed in an economy seat. That would be equivalent to torturing oneself.

True, but its still not so bad. 11 hours in say, an United economy is far more a torture than 19 hours in a SQ flight