Team-BHP > BHP India > Commercial Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th July 2019, 11:29   #1
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 54,016
Thanked: 133,610 Times
Default How countries make money from their airspace

Wow, learn something new everyday. Quite a lot of information in this TOI article for us aviation noobs.

Quote:
An air toll: Airlines pay the civil aviation administration of the country they are flying over a certain fee based on the type of aircraft, the distance covered while overflying a country and the aircraft's all up weight (AUW) or gross weight, which is the weight of an aircraft before it takes off. In Pakistan's case, for a Boeing 737, the charges are $580 through its airspace — which will increase in case an Airbus 380 or Boeing 747 is flying over.
Quote:
How expensive is India? The DGCA sets the overflight and landing charges in India, with domestic flights required pay less than international flights. The charges are calculated by multiplying the distance in nautical miles and the weight with a fixed charge component for airspace fees of Rs 5,330 if the flight lands in India. For those flights which are overflying, the charges are calculated on the basis of the route or the airspace fees, the distance and the weight, with an additional amount of Rs 5,080.

Last edited by ajmat : 16th July 2019 at 13:16. Reason: typo - flight not fight
GTO is offline   (31) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2019, 11:40   #2
Team-BHP Support
 
SmartCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 4,206
Thanked: 21,003 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

Busiest airline routes
(click on image for larger pic)

How countries make money from their airspace-nfx9lqm.jpg

- Hardly any traffic over Latin American and African countries
- Traffic over India is quite dense primarily because of flights to Singapore, ASEAN countries and Australia

Last edited by SmartCat : 4th July 2019 at 11:41.
SmartCat is online now   (25) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2019, 12:22   #3
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Delhi-NCR
Posts: 1,886
Thanked: 13,603 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

Lovely to see more topics on aviation. The airways are roadways in more sense than most imagine. And they cost money to maintain. When flying, from the cockpit, in good weather you can see the aircraft ahead of you 5 nautical miles away ~9kms. Jet airliners flying above 29,000 feet maintain a vertical separation of 2000 feet and horizontal of 5 n.m. When you spot an aircraft coming from the opposite side a few KM's to your side the two of you pass by like a bullet. From the time you usually spot him visually to the time he whizzes by is barely two or three seconds. Sometimes, less often, you spot a Charlie trying to overtake you separated horizontally by a few km and 2000 feet above or below. And it takes forever for the overtaking to be done. And no you don't start accelerating to prevent him from overtaking you.

Last edited by V.Narayan : 4th July 2019 at 12:26.
V.Narayan is offline   (60) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2019, 12:37   #4
BHPian
 
AlphaKilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: VOMM-EDDW-EDDM
Posts: 984
Thanked: 776 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

Very interesting aspect of tolls in air.
My stupid questions:
- when landing, the airline pays to DGCA/Airport but how is the payment made/billed for using the air route? For example, some airline which do not have an office or operate from a certain country but regularly over flies that particular country's airspace, how is the payment made? since the flight plan filing happens at the boarding/departure airport, how does the countries through whose airspace an airline flies receive the money?

- For countries like Afghanistan or Iraq where US Airforce has more or less complete control over the airspace, does over flying their airspace mean paying to US?

- How is the airspace usage over North korea regulated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
When flying, from the cockpit, in good weather you can see the aircraft ahead of you 5 nautical miles away ~9kms.
Just adding my bit, the fighter pilots are trained and taught to see even more. At this distance, they should be in a position to identify the Aircraft type!! (to identify Friend or Foe).

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
... And it takes forever for the overtaking to be done. And no you don't start accelerating to prevent him from overtaking you.
Does it really take long to overtake or just that we feel that the overtaking is taking so much time due to relative air speeds?

Last edited by AlphaKilo : 4th July 2019 at 12:40.
AlphaKilo is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2019, 13:17   #5
BHPian
 
saurabh2711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune, Bhopal, Indore
Posts: 299
Thanked: 412 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

Another information on same grounds for the Flight levels or altitude at which flights will use the available air space.

Eastbound flights maintain their elevation in odd thousands (5000, 7000, etc)
Westbound keep it to even thousands(4000, 6000, etc ). Source Wikipedia and NGC.

Please Refer to the below link for more details:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level
saurabh2711 is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2019, 13:38   #6
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,314
Thanked: 13,179 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
. Jet airliners flying above 29,000 feet maintain a vertical separation of 2000 feet and horizontal of 5 n.m. W.
To add, if they are flying in RVSM (Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum) airpace, they will be maintaining only 1000 feet vertical separation!

Not exactly sure what airspace is RVSM these days, but it is definitely the USA, Gulf of Mexico, large parts of the Atlantic Ocean. So let's say quite a few of the very dense airline routes!

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2019, 15:08   #7
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 158
Thanked: 294 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

A related detailed video on the most valuable airspace in the world.


P.S: This youtube channel has many similar videos related to logistics of aviation.
Mukund is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2019, 15:33   #8
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Delhi-NCR
Posts: 1,886
Thanked: 13,603 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
does over flying their airspace mean paying to US?
Goes to the country.
Quote:
Just adding my bit, the fighter pilots are trained and taught to see even more. At this distance, they should be in a position to identify the Aircraft type!! (to identify Friend or Foe).
Yes. Very very tough considering that warplanes are typically 3X to 5x smaller than a typical airliner I am referring to.
Quote:
Does it really take long to overtake or just that we feel that the overtaking is taking so much time due to relative air speeds?
It could take a couple of minutes or more. You are doing say 450 knots (~835 kmph) and the chap overtaking you, ie another airliner is clocking say 480 knots (890 kmph). The difference is usually not more than a few tens of knots at best.

Last edited by V.Narayan : 4th July 2019 at 15:34.
V.Narayan is offline   (7) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2019, 17:14   #9
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 661
Thanked: 218 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
Busiest airline routes
I thought New Delhi, Mumbai are few of the busiest airports. But I hardly see any busy airline route touching any of these two cities.

How do countries keep track of airlines flying over it? Does every country's ATC is involved, however small the airspace be, when an aircraft is handed over from one ATC to another?
shipnil is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2019, 20:15   #10
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 4,025
Thanked: 3,611 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
From the time you usually spot him visually to the time he whizzes by is barely two or three seconds.
CCU - BLR early morning flight one would normally see another to the right and lower. Would certainly be visible for more than two or three seconds.

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th July 2019, 11:37   #11
BHPian
 
AnInternetUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 104
Thanked: 100 Times
Default How countries make money from their airspace

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
Very interesting aspect of tolls in air.
When landing, the airline pays to DGCA/Airport but how is the payment made/billed for using the air route? For example, some airline which do not have an office or operate from a certain country but regularly over flies that particular country's airspace, how is the payment made? since the flight plan filing happens at the boarding/departure airport, how does the countries through whose airspace an airline flies receive the money?
I think I might be able to answer this question. I am no industry expert by any means, but I did intern in the Treasury Department of an airline which recently went down (no prizes for guessing which one )

Overflying charges are typically paid directly to the country by wire transfer/similar methods from what I saw. Depending on the arrangement, you would accrue overflying charges of a certain period and then pay it all at the end of that period.

There are several rules laid out related to overlying by the country/region and presumably IATA since these costs do affect how the airline does its accounting and cost control. From what I experienced as an intern, the finance and accounting part of aviation is quite unique and complex with even people working directly on these things having incomplete knowledge about it.
AnInternetUser is online now   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th July 2019, 14:44   #12
BHPian
 
ant_vas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: bangalore
Posts: 256
Thanked: 283 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

Quote:
P.S: This youtube channel has many similar videos related to logistics of aviation.

I am subscribed to this channel and they have quite a few informative videos about Airlines and the aviation industry in general.


There are quite a few YouTube channels like Captain Joe who pick one specific topic about airplanes and its operations and help understand it.
ant_vas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th July 2019, 14:57   #13
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 4,025
Thanked: 3,611 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

Pakistan has reopened it's airspace for India originating flights from today.

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2019, 11:58   #14
Newbie
 
theflyingguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 3
Thanked: 29 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Pakistan has reopened it's airspace for India originating flights from today.

Regards
Sutripta
This was inevitable. I was surprised that it took so long. Pakistan earns handsome money from airspace usage and the closure was costing them millions. So financially they were not making any wise decision by closing airspace for so long.

And then with US sanctioning Iranian Airspace, Pakistan was almost forced to open its airspace. The closure of Iranian and Pakistani airspace had hiked the prices on European and US routes by around 18% due to excess fuel, additional crew payment for longer hours of flight, additional food and beverages etc. So political pressure on Pakistan would have been immense to open it's airspace which resulted in sudden withdrawal of hard stance and opening its airspace.
theflyingguy is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2019, 13:43   #15
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Back to Chndgrh
Posts: 3,200
Thanked: 7,058 Times
Default Re: How countries make money from their airspace

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Pakistan has reopened it's airspace for India originating flights from today.
Yes, they did. AI flights were being stopped in Europe for refuelling, now back Directly.
Attached Thumbnails
How countries make money from their airspace-11.jpeg  

Turbanator is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
40 countries to make Autonomous Emergency Braking standard ChiragM The International Automotive Scene 14 25th February 2019 11:14
NASA flies large unmanned Aircraft in public airspace without chase plane for the 1st time sparky@home Commercial Vehicles 0 18th June 2018 14:48
Electric cars can make money by *selling* power from their batteries vina Technical Stuff 6 1st June 2011 00:11
The value for money SX4 now even more value for money-I map navigator free ram_hyundai The Indian Car Scene 20 23rd October 2008 11:23


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 00:03.

Copyright 2000 - 2019, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks