[libranof1987]

Lots of cancellations across the board.

Transportation regulators had already been concerned that the version of 5G that's was scheduled to be switched on in January could interfere with some airplane instruments, and many aviation industry groups shared those fears — despite reassurances from federal telecom regulators and wireless carriers.

Specifically, the Federal Aviation Administration has been worried that 5G cellular antennas near some airports — not air travelers' mobile devices — could throw off readings from some aircraft equipment designed to tell pilots how far they are from the ground. Those systems, known as radar altimeters, are used throughout a flight and are considered critical equipment. (Radar altimeters differ from standard altimeters, which rely on air pressure readings and do not use radio signals to gauge altitude.)

Specifically,

Air India said it would suspend service between Delhi Airport and San Francisco, Chicago and JFK. It will also suspend a Mumbai to Newark flight.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/18/b...-5g/index.html

Requesting telecom/aviation experts on how relevant this threat is.

Or is the aviation industry threatened that 5G will further reduce the need for travel. The past two years have brought business travel under scrutiny.

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

Lots of cancellations across the board.

Requesting telecom/aviation experts on how relevant this threat is.

Or is the aviation industry threatened that 5G will further reduce the need for travel. The past two years have brought business travel under scrutiny.

The threat would be serious or else airlines won't take this extreme step. Here's an article specifying some details of the interference: Link

Flight disruptions have already started:

[GTO]

Thanks for sharing, libranof1987! Moving your post out to a new thread .

@ BHPians, if you should spot any good post in an existing thread that deserves its own new thread, please report the post and we'll move it out for greater visibility.

Thank you!

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

Or is the aviation industry threatened that 5G will further reduce the need for travel. The past two years have brought business travel under scrutiny.

I dont think the airline industry is as united as you think in terms of impact of business travel. The same group of American big-3 carriers were against the ME3 for flooding capacity at their key hubs.

[volkman10]

Air India Resumes US Flights After Boeing's Assurance On 5G.

Boeing 777s radio altimeters were considered vulnerable to interference from 5G signals, causing airlines operating 777s to US to express safety concerns.

The first flight to New York left this morning. Flights to Chicago and San Francisco will also take off today.

Link

[PreludeSH]

Telecom carriers have spent 80 billion dollars for this spectrum. They wont let go easily to airlines demands. Airlines would be using radar at this frequency for free

This was also known so long ago and FCC and FAA couldn't sort it out ? 5G is deployed in 40 countries at this band without issues and hope they will sort this out in week or so.

[V.Narayan]

Don't know much about 5G telephony or this current problem but the background as I see it is thus -- civil airliner radar altimeters operate in the 4.20 to 4.40 Giga Hertz range. This is a universal standard. Countries in Europe auctioned 5G in the 3.40 to 3.80 GHz spectrum. South Korea auctioned in the 3.42 to 3.70 range. USA auctioned in the 3.70 to 3.98 range of the spectrum. This sits very close to the spectrum used by radar altimeters. Hence the question of interference. Why this was not addressed at time of issuing the auction I do not know as most other countries took this factor into cognizance. To what extent will the 5G towers interfere - that we can only know by a proper trial IMHO but maybe within the hardware and software of 5G they have some solutions. I wonder if there is a communication gap or gaffe between departments in the U.S. Govt or whether there is a political angle to this quarrel. If these 5G emissions are affecting aircraft fitted altimeters then they are in all probability affecting ground based landing aids that line out the glide slope too.

[anjan_c2007]

Its now the airlines, aircraft manufacturers and aviation authorities versus the 5G lobby and its advocates. This is surely going to turn out to be an interesting battle. Boeing says its aircrafts, the 777 and 787 are compatible to withstand such a 4G to 5G upgradation by the cellular service providers.

Airlines, aircraft manufacturers and aviation authorities are huge moneybags and could offer a stiff resistance to the ushering in of the 5G upgraded networks. Alas, all airlines, air forces, corporates and individuals cannot own the Boeing 777's and 787's and also other newer aircrafts by some other manufacturers, the lists of which could soon be released by them as 5G invincible for marketing purposes.

But sadly, wildlife, nature, ecosystem lovers, green activists and other lobbyists are mostly not money bags, nor do they have significant pressure groups to get vocal and effectively heard by the powers that be to reverse such decisions. The money bags who advocate such upgradations usually win their battle against the mute wildlife and biodiversity.

The lethal effects of the 5G networks on birds, wildlife and also plants have for long been debated in the media. We have been since recent years reading and hearing about the 5G network threat to wildlife and biodiversity. We have also observed that the smaller birds, including the once so common house sparrows getting threatened and are now on the verge of extinction, due to various other ecological factors and also due to the man-made sources of electromagnetic fields (EMF) getting newly created. Most of all, the ushering in of the 2G and soon after the 4G networks have made these species culpable. About the 5G, I chanced upon this letter of 03.03.2021 published by the Wall Street Journal (Science and Technology) from an engineer Miguel Coma to Greta Thunburg entitled “5G threats to wildlife”. Miguel is an engineer in telecommunications and an Information Technology expert. After over two decades of professional activity in various industries, he has started to write, speak and consult about our digital-environmental footprint. The link below has the full letter with an illustrative graph (Source: The Lancet), which is horrifying. The graph compares natural levels of EMFs (green area) with man-made sources since the 1950s. The red peak is caused by recent wireless communications technologies such as DECT cordless phones, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, 2G, 3G and 4G according to the author. These technologies generate both the highest EMF exposure levels among all frequencies, and the highest increase compared to natural levels. Electrosmog generated by wireless technologies is already 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 times te natural levels. 5G will add an additional layer of radiation.



The graph above shows natural levels of EMFs (green area) compared with man-made sources since the 1950s © The Lancet

Excerpts from the letter:-

Dear Greta,

I am an engineer, not a biologist. Yet, I realize wildlife and biodiversity are the Earth’s greatest treasures and need to be protected. In previous letters, I discussed large-scale 5G networks’ energy consumption and climate impacts. I proposed more sustainable alternatives to 5G public networks. Today, I will report how 5G threatens ecosystems and biodiversity.

In Brussels, current electromagnetic radiation exposure levels are still below guidelines determined to be safe by an agency called ICNIRP, endorsed by the World Health Organization (WHO). Because 5G deployments will increase electromagnetic radiation significantly, the Belgian telecommunications regulation authority plans to increase allowable exposure levels fifty-fold. These levels are considered safe by the WHO. However, the Council of Europe and thousands of scientists and medical doctors have urged more restrictive exposure limits for decades. In 2020, one hundred Belgian students in biology and medicine requested a moratorium on 5G deployments because humanity’s survival depends on fragile ecosystems that 5G emissions would threaten.

In Europe, eighty percent of bee colonies have already disappeared. Experiments exposing insects to man-made EMFs also show the production of stress proteins, a halving of fertility, lethargy, changes in flight dynamics, in the success of foraging (finding food), in reaction speeds, escape behaviour, disturbance of circadian rhythms, blocking of the respiratory chain and damage to mitochondria, mis-activation of the immune system, increased number of DNA strand breaks, impairment of cognitive faculties, locomotion, learning, and total loss of memory with some irreversible effects.

How would 5G millimeter waves threaten wildlife?

To operate 5G, the industry plans to use higher-frequency waves never used before by cell phones, called “millimeter waves” (mmW) in the range of 26 gigahertz (GHz). mmW is expected to be deployed in very densely populated areas with high mobile data traffic. 5G mmW could have a greater impact on organisms with high surface-area-to-volume ratios: insects, small birds, mammals and amphibians, could be severely affected. A study by Arno Thielens et al confirms an increased thermal effect of mmW on certain insects, which may have impacts on their behaviour, physiology or morphology.

Unlike animals, plants have developed large areas to facilitate exchanges with their environment. The leaves and reproductive organs of trees are highly exposed and strongly absorb mmW energy. Plants could therefore be particularly affected by 5G mmW radiation.

Millimeter waves (mmW), as their name suggests, are characterized by very short wavelengths. Absorption of mmW by organisms the size of a few millimeters can be strongly increased by a physical phenomenon called resonance when the animal (or a part of its body) is the same size as the mmW wavelength. As with thermal effects, plants and trees could suffer from these resonances. The resonance effects on plants and trees have not been assessed yet.

The effects of millimeter waves on animals and plants have been studied only minimally, at best. This makes 5G a very large-scale experiment on living organisms. Danish attorney-at-law Christian Jensen has explained that 5G deployments threaten several treaties that protect wildlife, including the EU directive on the conservation of natural habitats and of wild fauna and flora, the EU directive on the conservation of wild birds, on the precautionary principle as well as on the Bern- and Bonn-conventions on the protection of animals and plants.

Why would we risk life itself only for faster video downloading? The precautionary principle calls to wait for proof of 5G’s safety for ecosystems before deploying it in public networks.

Signs of destruction are already clearly visible. The 6th mass extinction of species, the first in 66 million years, is underway due to human activity at a dizzying rate. It comes with a catastrophic decline in populations of so far non-threatened species. 5G might accelerate even further decline and extinction rates, starting with small living things and plants.

With a dramatic explosion in exposure to electromagnetic radiation (including new millimeter waves), 5G public deployments would present serious and illegal threats to biodiversity, to the survival of ecosystems and to humanity.

The link:

https://wsimag.com/science-and-techn...ts-to-wildlife

[bejoy]

This was not something the airlines or the aircraft manufacturers caught unaware of, but the writing was there on the wall - fix your equipment soon. A lot can be attributed to the pandemic, where the airlines cut their spending, the manufacturers followed suit and the OEMs postponed their fix for radios. On the other side, the 5G deployment went smooth and by the time the airlines realized they were late, the FAA was not ready for any waiver, except for some buffer zones near airports clear of 5G towers. Some of these fixes involve upgrading the equipment (mostly older designs) and it will take its time before being flight ready.

[landcruiser123]

I'm flying into Chicago via Air France this weekend. Question is - should I be worried?

Or does this 5G rollout affect some airlines because their aircraft doesn't have the equipment to handle radio interference?

[Samarth 619]

Well, this is capitalism for you. Progress you must. No other choice. The industry depends on it, the surveillance network of USA depends on it.

If you're against 5G, you're up against some big powers. Remember the ₹20 Lakh fine on Mrs. Juhi Chawla Mehta, actress? That should about detest anyone from complaining even to the court of law that's "supposed to uphold the law".
And what must I expect from the court of law when people were giving laugh reacts on the Facebook posts relating to this?

I've seen people in my neighborhood being beaten by Police because they peacefully protested against Jio's 4G tower right outside their house. (Please note: the tower was not on private land, it was on public road side.)
I don't feel like we're in a democracy, its more like capitocracy. I just don't think we have a choice anymore.
5G is unneeded for majority of our life needs, but it "might" be dangerous as well.
What do you think will happen even if we legitimately prove that 5G is dangerous? Will it be off the map? I don't think anyone can fight this.