[locusjag]

Overall great discussion going on here, from varied perspectives.

Just wanted to share a personal experience.

It was Jan 1st 2019. A plastics ban was in force as of Jan 1st that year in Tamil Nadu and (inexplicably) nearly all the trucks that normally ply on the highways were pulled off for inspections on that day.

So, on this day when zero trucks were plying on the Bangalore-Chennai highway, we covered 300 Km from Hosur to Chennai in our car in 4.5 hours - including 1 hour's worth of lunch & tea breaks. So that's a driving time of 3.5 hours actually. That's an average speed of 85 Kmph, which was mind blowing for us! The drive was so pleasant and stress-free, because cars could give each other plenty of space on the available lanes. The slow lane was actually used by slower cars, the passing (fast) lane was used by enthusiastic car drivers. It was also a calm and safe driving experience; no car was driven with a mad need for speed, since everyone's average speed was already quite high. No rash driving was encountered, except by 2 wheelers.

On the other hand, when trucks ply normally on highways, every trip to/from Hosur (we frequent Hosur a lot) has usually taken us upwards of 4 to 5 hours, not including breaks. That's an average speed of 60 - 75 kmph. And the driving experience typically includes instances where cars fight for gaps to get past slow trucks blocking lanes.

Just sharing an observation. No judgments being made here - I'm well aware of the hardships truckers face and why they do whatever they do.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by maddy42

As we are in the commercial vehicle space i bought this topic up. Think about the life of the driver of the truck for a change. Wont a slightly higher powered truck get him to and from his goods destination to his family quicker?

The industry runs on thin margins even with the most elementary of equipment, wages etc. Other than specialized transport that can afford more fancier equipment, I doubt if there is any returns in spending more on the truck itself for general purpose.

Standard practice is to buy a chassis and build an India friendly cabin where the crew can live and work.

There could be a change in this situation if some industry demands that the good arrive faster (online shopping for example), however it is not based on driver comfort.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by maddy42

Root cause:
Our trucks are underpowered for the job on hand.

IMO this thread ought to be in the Road Safety section and not in the Commercial Vehicles section of the forum.

For umpteen years, Indian trucks have had a legal speed limit of 40 kmph even on highways - only very recently have those speeds been raised to 60/65 kmph on some of our excellent expressways. Even then, the speed differential between heavy transport vehicles and light motor vehicles remains large. Elsewhere, in the First World, trucks and buses are required to maintain the same speed limit as light passenger vehicles.

OTOH, there is no structured education, training and testing of heavy vehicle drivers in this country, before they can drive a 10-to-50+ tonne juggernaut. Many of them do not recognize common road signs, a number have poor eyesight that is not corrected with prescription lenses, and most truck and bus drivers drive in a state of constant fatigue and borderline exhaustion, suffering from drowsiness and microsleeps that have never been researched and addressed.

In such a scenario, irrespective of the cost of the vehicle, higher fuel consumption or not, overloading or not, giving a more powerful heavy vehicle to an untrained, often fatigued driver, would be a recipe for more disasters than are already happening on our roads. Ergo, my vote for the question Should our trucks get more power similar to Semis? goes to No, its dangerous.

[Amrik Singh]

Despite poor driving habits of Indian Truckers, I feel they are forced to drive this way because of road conditions.
Imagine a Heavy Truck driving slowly on slow lane (extreme left). The roads are sloping outwards and the edges of the roads are a mixture of Tar, loose gravel and dirt track.
Any pot hole or uneven road will cause the Truck to tilt and topple sideways. The Trucker plays safe by driving on fast lane (extreme right) even though it is a cause of discomfort for other drivers.
Again, one never knows when the left lane would abruptly end. A three lane road approaching a bridge with just 2 lanes. How would a sleepy driver find that in a dark night except by banging in the divider.
I would blame the roads conditions also for this.

[Nikhil Beke]

Originally Posted by maddy42

We love to overload our vehicles. I own a Tata Ace and its a mechanics magnet and terrible on hilly roads. The third gear with a load is at a max speed of 35 and the first gear takes a uphill at 15!

Reason we bought it was it was at a throwaway price used and would serve transporting people on the farm. Now i realise its a money pit.

Just out of curiosity: any idea how Ace EV performs in real world? Any reviews from fellow owners (if any)? Does the robust torque from the low end provide any perfomance benefits?

[narayans80]

There are 2 different problems here: trucks driving slow and trucks driving in the fast lane.

Trucks don't want to drive slow. On low traffic times, especially during the Covid lockdowns, they drive at a decent 70-80 kph and yes use the left lane extensively. I've seen it first hand early this year.

Yes overloading is definitely a problem. But fellow motorists care 2 hoots for other vehicles losing momentum. The smaller vehicles are agile to regain the momentum. Same thing cannot be said for buses or trucks.

Till the time we allow all sorts of miscellaenous traffic drive at all sorts of speeds, wrong side driving/riding, parking on the left lane, we cannot expect trucks to drive on the left lane.

It is a lot worse for HMV/HCV to deal with this miscellaenous traffic, than it is for LMV/LCVs. Not just for them, it is a pain for vehicles following to judge what lies ahead as well.

Having spent a good part of last 5 years driving across the country. I have a more pleasant experience dealing with trucks (does not include those Bharatbenz tippers). It is the state-owned/private buses and the variety of 2 to 4-wheeled entitled pullingo am more scared about.

[aaggoswami]

Lack of discipline, awareness cannot be compensated with more power, that would definitely result into more chaos than what we are facing on the roads at the moment.

Discipline : Trucks and other LCV, HCV driving in right most lane. Reason is wrong side traffic and bicycles, two wheelers, three wheelers, tractors and even pedestrians on left side of the road. This root cause has to be worked out.

Awareness : Truck owners usually overload trucks to no extent, a practice that needs to stop as such actions lead to lot of hazards, including damage to roads. Arguments from transporters is they have to pay bribe, high fuel cost and even toll cost (toll cost has gone up way beyond logical contemplation).

Our HCV are sufficiently powered given majority of our roads if loaded correctly. No need for more power. In a country where its tough to find light and heavy trucks with functioning taillights and under run protection bars, it is not exactly logical to have more powerful engines.

[RedTerrano]

In addition to all the points mentioned above, there is a co-relation between rated power and rated tonnage.
What is the reality?

How many of us have seen trucks loaded to almost bursting their seams, or rear suspension almost flattened or even trucks whose payload is far exceeding the dimensions of the truck itself?

There is a reason why the weighing scales exist on the highways.
Overladen vehicles not only hamper the flow speed but also aid in ruining the roads.
Only if authorities check for laden weight as they are actually supposed to. The easiest would be at the toll nakas which infest all our highways. Where the vehicles stop at the boom barrier, it should be a straight forward task to convert that area into a weighing scale, whose reading can be directly read off by the computer in the toll booth.

[Rahul Rao]

Few points to note before we discuss this.

Every country has some standards for trucks.
India, Australia, South Africa, Brazil, Argentina & Russia
Rigid truck.
Should start on 18% grade and achieve 8 kph in 1:gear, should be capable of top speed of 80 kph on 1:200 gradient.
Semi trailer.
Should start on 18% grade and achieve 8 kph in 1:gear, should be capable of top speed of 65 kph on 1:200 gradient.
Australia has increased top speed requirement to 100kph to be achieved within 5 km.
USA
Should start on 1:5 grade and achieve 10 Mph(16Kph) in 1:gear, should be capable of a speed of 55 mph on 1:100 gradient.

Europe and most of the developed world
Should start on 18% grade and achieve 10 kph within 20M in 1:gear, should be capable of top speed of 100 kph on 1:100 gradient.

The above limitation have recently been upgraded world wide, along with increase in permissible length of 2 axle rigid vehicle to 13.5M and 3 Axle rigid vehicle with a steered tag axle to 15 M. The entire world (except USA) now has a max permissible width of 2.6 M and height of 4 M.

To achieve the minimum requirements for India we need about 4.2 HP/ton all our trucks are above this often 5hp/ton or more. This combination gives the best fuel efficiency between 45 to 60 kph.
To achieve the minimum requirement of Europe, 5HP/ton is enough, but operators
usually prefer 7 to 10 HP/ton so that best efficiency is achieved at about 65 to 90 kph.
If you check the web, the least powerful option available from Daimler Benz for Europe is often the only option for their customers in India.
No where in the world is an transport operator going to buy an vehicle whose fuel efficiency does not fall in their operating speed range.

Most trucks are capable of achieving 80 kph, but most drivers do not have the guts to exceed 50-60 kph except when there is no traffic and a km of clear visibility.

Most of our toll booths have indicative weighing scales and if a truck exceeds the limit noticeably the police near the booth immediately divert the truck to the police verified scale near the booth. Local traffic overloads a lot, but it is very rare in case of intercity long distance trucks.

Lastly many 6 lane stretches are considered 4 lane, with additional 2 lanes available for use where ever available. So many visibly 6 lane roads are on paper 4 lane roads,
this excuses the authorities https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...sQMygAegQIARAg This allows an accident here to be blamed onto the driver.

Lastly a driver fined for driving in middle lane can contest the fine saying he was overtaking a cyclist or 2 wheeler, or something else, and a heavy vehicle is supposed to change lane not less than 50M before an overtake. The police officer implementing the fine will need video evidence to prove an empty road ahead, the driver can also claim that he had completed an OT maneuver and was trying to change back to LH lane, but smaller vehicles overtaking from LH prevented him from doing so, here again the law is in his favor.

It will be extremely difficult to prevent trucks in middle lanes until other traffic improves.
Action needs to be taken in case of dimensional overloading as shown in #23

Non toll interior roads also need pass through sections with weigh bridges like our highways.

Rahul

[Gansan]

The reason for slow speed is cargo overload. In India most of the buses are still built on truck chassis. They have the same engine, I suppose the gear boxes are no different but are easily able to do 80+ speeds on the highways. Just because of less load fator when compared to a truck. I have seen correctly loaded trucks doing decent speeds on highways.

[AnandB]

As a truck owner our trucks are not under-powered. They easily achieve 80kmph and carrying 30-50 MT of normal load are dangerous enough. Maintenance needs to be done so they don't lose power which is an issue with old trucks. The real problem is the traffic sense and application of laws. Most of the drivers stick to right because of two wheelers and people on the left are hard to see from driver POV and cars overtaking on the right in case of mishap they swerve left where 2 wheelers or people are.

Originally Posted by RedTerrano

In addition to all the points mentioned above, there is a co-relation between rated power and rated tonnage.
What is the reality?

Most of these might look overload but are no where close to the maximum rated load a truck can ply. My 16-wheeler trucks ply cement bags and you don't even see the truck as full but they carry 35 ton of cement and add 12-13 ton of vehicle weight.

Another example is trucks that carry other cars. They might seem long and heavy but common cars weighs between 1.2 - 2 ton on average and not even 10 are enough of a load that truck can carry.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by A350XWB

As aargee mentioned, the root cause is not exactly trucks being underpowered, but overloading them, way above their rated capacity. Stricter law enforcement is something which can help here.

And warning / closing down those third party body works places that add a lengthened + higher frame and extra rigid springs to increase the load.

[SmartCat]

Indian trucks need:

- Air conditioning that cannot be switched off
- Better driver's seat with full range of adjustments
- Automatic transmission (AMT)
- More power/torque & stronger brakes
- Some sort of cargo load limiter that that cuts off the engine beyond limit

[sathasb]

Originally Posted by Gansan

In India most of the buses are still built on truck chassis.

No, they are not. A truck and bus chassis looks same for the naked eyes, but they differ in overhangs, chassis reinforcements and suspension (usually longer spring leafs & optional air suspension in omni/intercity or interstate buses). Most of the busses are built on bus chassis only.

Originally Posted by hserus

And warning / closing down those third party body works places that add a lengthened + higher frame and extra rigid springs to increase the load.

Springs coming with the trucks are not sufficient enough to carry the permitted load. Lengthening / adding spring / chassis reinforcement are differ from the trucks usage and load requirements. For example a tipper truck and car carrier. Thats why it is the first work done on new trucks after the delivery.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by AnandB

As a truck owner our trucks are not under-powered. They easily achieve 80kmph and carrying 30-50 MT of normal load are dangerous enough.

Indian trucks seem to be optimised for running at speeds of 45-60kmph. That is the practical average I have seen, on good roads. This might have been enough 10-20 years back when many of our highways were 2laned. But on modern 6lane highways and newly built expressways, they are woefully short of grunt. When speed limit for cars is 120kmph, trucks doing 50-60 are a hazard.

Most of the drivers stick to right because of two wheelers and people on the left are hard to see from driver POV and cars overtaking on the right in case of mishap they swerve left where 2 wheelers or people are.

Valid point. This is not something we car people can directly relate with.
Indicates the absolute need of service lanes if any kind of lane discipline is to be enforced.

Most of these might look overload but are no where close to the maximum rated load a truck can ply.

Overloading is a bogey. A convenient and easy excuse for politicians and vested interests and an acceptable argument for people without any knowledge of trucking.

All modern toll booths have integrated weight bridges. Any serious overloading is immediately identified. The penalties are just not worth it.

Oversized loads or overloaded trucks are actually pretty rare on highways nowadays, especially for long distance hauling.

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Indian trucks need:

- Air conditioning that cannot be switched off
- Better driver's seat with full range of adjustments
- Automatic transmission (AMT)
- More power/torque & stronger brakes

Absolutely in agreement with every word. I’ll add to this

- mandatory 360 degree camera
- top mounted mirror to see directly in front for the truck