[UD17]

Originally Posted by GrammarNazi

no economy can function.

Quite sensible post.

- As a business transaction, it looks like the Pilots had signed a contract and notice period by their free will- it becomes a contract. Now that they did not perform their side of contracts (assuming-as there could be other aspects in this case),They should be penalized (as per the contract) for not fulfilling their obligations

- Although i agree that long notice periods (not only in aviation sector) can sabotage the chances of growth but from employee perspective its better to deal those with either notice period compensation or serving the notice. If other side of business needs people than they would pay the notice pay, that removes a lot of headache from employee's routine.

- Aviation is tough industry, I must say DGCA should acts like an unbiased regulator in this case. Indian aviation is already much more monopolized.

[KaartooS]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Just thinking out aloud (or rather speculating)

2) Perhaps Akasa Air spent money on additional training for their pilots to fly this particular aircraft type (the infamous Boeing 737-8 MAX)

In india, rules related to Pilots and their employers (airlines) work differently, since it is a highly regulated sector. I have a few friends who are pilots and I know that 6 months to 1 year long notice periods are common. In fact, Akasa's notice period (of 6 months) might be on the lower side to be able to attract pilots. One of the arguments for this is the extensive training costs involved for pilots. A friend who was a Senior Pilot with Jet Airways flying Boeing had to join Go Air and now Air India. He shifted from flying Boeing to Airbus, which involved months of training and over Rs 30 Lakhs in cost, which was paid by the employer. Same story again when he moved to AI, since the aircraft changed. The only way Pilots can subvert the notice period is when the Airline does not fulfil the terms of the contract, e.g. fails to pay salary on time and defaults.

I am no expert in contract law, but this is the reality. In case of Akasa, I read somewhere that the change was drop in allowances. Whether that allows Pilots to now subvert their contract is a big question mark. It would be an interesting case to follow and would certainly leave a precedence in Indian law.

The amount of INR 21 crore might have been arrived at by adding all the disruptions the business had to face. For a new airline, this could kill the business.

[IanNazareth]

Originally Posted by Malyaj

Not sure how Rs 21 crores is arrived at. Even if one was to include notice period pay and 100% cost of training, it won't come to that much. It almost sounds like they are trying to hold pilots accountable for business losses, which won't fly in court. Perhaps it is a scare tactic.

1. What about the grounded planes that they will have to still cover leases on?
2. Cancelled flights?
3. The loss of reputation on cancelled flights?

21Cr is peanuts.

[Annibaddh]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Although I would always frown upon people who don’t stick to their contractual obligations. They signed up for the six months, so not giving six months notice is at least morally despicable, I would never hire people like that.

Jeroen

I agree with that wholeheartedly. Generally I land on the side of employees. Corporations have too much power and leeway to fire people, en masse even, and for all the promise of 'career' and 'growth', generally speaking are self-serving. So why shouldn't employees be? As for those wondering how the law stands for employee, India is far superior to a lot of countries - letter of law lands on the side of employees, overwhelmingly so. And creative use of labor laws, discrimination laws etc. frequently make it incredibly hard for organizations to act. have seen it in several organizations.

But you did sign a contract. And for a moment step back and reflect on the situation of the airline. They'd be in a mess. So would be the passengers, bleeding for no fault of their own. It'd be madness to keep bidding more for the same talent. Look at what is happening in IT post the covid rush. Companies are out for revenge! One wonders who'd you prefer in such case. A TCS which provides a sustainable organization - supports people through thick and thin, or seasonal paymasters hunting and firing at whim. Airlines are an already bleeding business. Unpredictable resource behavior makes it harder for everyone!

[OffRoadFun]

This happens when clueless exploitative Lalas start an airline, blessed by political connections. They suddenly cut the benefits, pilots realize it's an exploitative atmosphere. And then the Lalas, who have had zero regards for labor laws earlier, hold your breath, reach DGCA and labor authorities to "enforce" the contract!

The airline should be countersued for not honoring commitment (regarding wages) in a land where law is supreme.

Did anyone notice the fresher starting salary of big three service companies in India has barely budged and not tracked even official inflation figures whereas IT traditionally has done so well?
3 months of notice periods to scuttle attrition? Seriously? No sympathy for those mean executives anywhere?

And then they complain about attrition. These employers should have a class action suit for acting in collusion and suppressing IT wages for decades.

Disclaimer: Simplistic and highly opinionated view.

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by Malyaj

I don't know why this belief has become prevalent on social media. Is it because of what that Arshneel Grover chap said? He also said that the cost of hiring a lawyer to fight the case will be more than the salary involved, so companies don't find it worth it.

The employment contract is fully enforceable if the companies want to enforce it. That they may not want to do it does not change the law.

I guess that might be true when you are doing some low level coorporate slave labour where you are easily replaceable. At this high a level, there is a pretty good chance you will be sued.

[FlyboyQP]

Well, Some of you are simply jumping into conclusions. Here is the inside info. Because the world hasn't heard the pilots side of story.

To start with, All these pilots were hired in 2022-2023. They were exploited right from the beginning, paying sub standard salaries, not giving accommodation, not giving flights for company training (when the airline is
up and flying )etc. These were always an industry standard ! For example, If an applicant pilot is called to Doha for 2 days interview and flight test, he/she is provided with Business class travel, visa and at least a 3 star hotel stay. It's a norm in industry. When asked, they said "Its an employer's market ". This is where the story begun. Down the lane there were several promises made, which was not kept by the management. Flying involved constant shuffling ranging from 3-7 day patterns involving various cities. Leaves never get approved. Home base was never given, though was promised. Money can't compensate the time with one's family. Simply stating "we are a world class airline doesn't" make them one. And so many other stories which cant be disclosed here.

When they started, they took several pilots from Spicejet, Airindia express and Goair on one day notice period, YES they started. Violating the very CAR, which they are claiming that these pilots have violated. KARMA. These pilots were frustrated and unhappy for long time awaiting right moment. Believe me most of them have joined on a lower pay for the peace of mind. And all of them left without violating the clauses of the contract. As for as the notice period is concerned globally, its only 1-2 months. No where in the world its 6 months and they were trying to make it 1 year ! C'mon, an airline will open and may even shut down with in that time. Who waits that long for an employee to join. 21 cr, includes the bond money, loss of flights for 6 months and reputational damage. If a pilot is worth that much, then why isnt he/she getting paid so less?

And regarding flights cancellations, it happened due to aircraft shortage, due to seat reconfiguration and delay from Boeing on 737MAX delivery. Whole thing is a supply chain issue. They will very well have to prove it. For a flight to be cancelled, all the pilots should have maxed out their hours/duty limitation. Which was never the case. There were many pilots doing 40-50 hrs on those months.

https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/...361-2023-08-24

Before the pilots, cabin crews left in droves. They really couldn't do anything with them as they weren't bonded heavily. They thought these pilots who left were dumb. I wonder what they are thinking about Indian lawyers and Judges. Instead of concentrating on what went wrong, they simply went to court to threaten the current pilots & the ones that left ! STUPID is all I can think of. No airline has lost its reputation amongst pilots so quick in Indian history.

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by FlyboyQP

Well, Some of you are simply jumping into conclusions. Here is the inside info. Because the world hasn't heard the pilots side of story.

To start with, All these pilots were hired in 2022-2023. They were exploited right from the beginning, paying sub standard salaries, not giving accommodation, not giving flights for company training (when the airline is
up and flying )etc. These were always an industry standard ! For example, If an applicant pilot is called to Doha for 2 days interview and flight test, he/she is provided with Business class travel, visa and at least a 3 star hotel stay. It's a norm in industry. When asked, they said "Its an employer's market ". This is where the story begun. Down the lane there were several promises made, which was not kept by the management. Flying involved constant shuffling ranging from 3-7 day patterns involving various cities. Leaves never get approved. Home base was never given, though was promised. Money can't compensate the time with one's family. Simply stating "we are a world class airline doesn't" make them one. And so many other stories which cant be disclosed here.

When they started, they took several pilots from Spicejet, Airindia express and Goair on one day notice period, YES they started. Violating the very CAR, which they are claiming that these pilots have violated. KARMA. These pilots were frustrated and unhappy for long time awaiting right moment. Believe me most of them have joined on a lower pay for the peace of mind. And all of them left without violating the clauses of the contract. As for as the notice period is concerned globally, its only 1-2 months. No where in the world its 6 months and they were trying to make it 1 year ! C'mon, an airline will open and may even shut down with in that time. Who waits that long for an employee to join. 21 cr, includes the bond money, loss of flights for 6 months and reputational damage. If a pilot is worth that much, then why isnt he/she getting paid so less?

And regarding flights cancellations, it happened due to aircraft shortage, due to seat reconfiguration and delay from Boeing on 737MAX delivery. Whole thing is a supply chain issue. They will very well have to prove it. For a flight to be cancelled, all the pilots should have maxed out their hours/duty limitation. Which was never the case. There were many pilots doing 40-50 hrs on those months.

https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/...361-2023-08-24

Before the pilots, cabin crews left in droves. They really couldn't do anything with them as they weren't bonded heavily. They thought these pilots who left were dumb. I wonder what they are thinking about Indian lawyers and Judges. Instead of concentrating on what went wrong, they simply went to court to threaten the current pilots & the ones that left ! STUPID is all I can think of. No airline has lost its reputation amongst pilots so quick in Indian history.

Absolutely on the point. The airline is unnecessarily creating a media drama to try and see if they can scare the remaining pilots into staying. Not that such antics will help.
Speaking of "contracts" , Akasa has one sidedly reduced the flying hour pay of a captain from Rs 10k per hour to Rs 7.5 k per hour, under the guise of a new and improved contract. This sort of unilateral restructuring of salaries and expecting notice periods to be honoured is a sign of crooks in the top management.
And the "honorable" court is on a different trip of its own. How can a aviation safety regulator decide to judge and penalise what essentially is a contract between the airline and the employee. If they could, did they do anything when the crook Goyal quietly stole money and didnt pay his pilots?

[FlyboyQP]

Indeed ! Goyal, VJM and likes. Salaries for pilots are still pending on these airlines. Imagine abintio pilot paying 28L to the airline and getting nothing out of it. All these pilots who left, left on under 6mo probation clause.
Contract clearly states, both parties doesn’t have to give any notice.

In later contracts they removed the clause