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-   -   Are buses violating permits on seating capacity? (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commercial-vehicles/87216-buses-violating-permits-seating-capacity.html)

Pass - 48
Standees - 25
D&C - 2

Is what is printed in every MTC buses in Chennai, which means, number of passengers allowed to sit is 48, number of people to stand is 25, driver & conductor is 2.

As a child, I used to think it was a mere waste to print this because I couldn't relate the number of people the bus carried on the pass & standees part, but I could related the D&C.

Later on, I realized the meaning of the word "Permit" and "Law". To sum up, if a bus is engineered to carry 150 people BUT the permit is issued to carry only 75 people, then, will carrying more than 75 people on a bus considered as violating the law?

In KL, I've seen buses with one more factor...
PC - 53
Standees 20
D&C - 2
Luggage - 148 Kg

So to an extend, I assume that, the bus has a seating capacity of 53 passenger, standing capacity of 20, driver & conductor & a load carrying capacity OR its equivalent for 148 Kg. Not sure if this is right though.

What I'm unable to understand here is, the Govt buses cannot violate the law & there should be something that allows to carry more people without violating the permits. What is it? Then why print the capacity on every bus?

Ps - there's another factor waiting to play here - insurance.

Mods - Pls merge or direct me with an appropriate thread if one exists already. Tks.

In kerala, the private buses on long distances flout the low by building the bus in a 2x2 configuration(seats) and then, once the inspection is done and tax paid as the per the number of original seating capacity, a row of single seats are added on one side. By doing this they save tax on at least 8-10 seats per quarter, that is a good saving to have. I am sure that the RTO is aware of this trick but does nothing to stop them.

But by doing this, are they not reducing the standees capacity?

Dear Mr. Kuttappan;

You are absolutely wrong. Most of the private buses in Kerala have 48 seats with the 3*2 configuration itself. After test, they make it 2*2. But the tax is paid for 48 seats as per 3*2 seating.

Well i have witnessed what Kuttapan has said directly. PPK Service from Nedumkandam - Kottayam Fast Passenger had a 2X2 configuration permit and later they had added this single seat to one row to make it a complete 3X2. But was forced to remove it when the other operators complain. Long distance operators do this because, long haul travellers' will get in only if they get a seat.

By long distance do you mean interstate or intercity? I'm assuming for interstate they would be interested in more seating but I guess for intercity they would probably prefer more standing.

Anyway coming to the original question, my guess is that they are breaking the law but are getting away with it.

Guys, you're all talking about private buses. What I'm more concerned here is about Govt buses violating the law. Even the KL-15's, I'm sure are carrying more people in standing than what it is being allowed; Chennai, no doubt, even plying with people hanging on foot board.

My point is that, I want to know, if Govt buses are violating the law by any means. This, IMO, is more serious than the private bus owners violating the law. I'm sure KA or AP is no exception to this load capacity & permit.

Our public transport system itself is clogged, if they follow the rules strictly most of us wont reach our destinations on time.

^ ^ ^

Truly Agree. In our country, it is not possible to do any business honestly.

Think of the money bus owners have to "give" to a dozen of people to run a bus on the road peacefully.

@Kuttappan:
I've seen this being done in the Limited Stop private buses plying between Palakkad and Thrissur. And contrary to what you've said, there was once a check by the RTO/Police at Manappullikavu (where the buses go into the town from NH-47). The crew were fined for overloading. There were 5 or 6 people standing and all seats filled.

Not sure if they let them go for some moolah, but the police do resort to surprise checks.

@aargee:
Footboard travel is actually way to show off in Chennai. Not just buses, even share autos and the Suburban and MRTS trains also have such morons.

in mumbai.. the older BEST buses are 55 seater but the newer ones are 51 or 49 or even 47 seater depending on the length of the bus. and standees are 19-to 23 or so. but in peak hours.. 51 or watever number of seats, they are all occoupied but there are almost 30 plus standees, some times as high as 50 jst clinging to whatever part of the grab rod on the roof they can get and travel. Really pathetic situation.

The new CNG buses in mumbai under the jnnrum are even worst with a very narrow gangway making commuting for standees a really ugly experience.

We've so many videos, pics from magazine to newspaper to television that we see everyday on over crowded bus. So is it not possible to file a case in the court (probably against the Govt) showing all these as evidences for violating the permits? To an extend even the RTO & the inspector would also be involved in such case isn't it?

Next, when such a over crowded bus gets into accident (be it private or Govt), is it not possible to show the permit violation as evidence & claim more damage charges? In that case, will the insurance companies reject the bus owner's claim?

@ aargee:

If a dozen of people standing in bus is too much, think of the 100s of people standing in the local. What will you call this? Leave aside the daily count of people dying on the tracks from falling. Have we taken any action against the Railways? or did anyone ever thought of filing a case against them?

In that way, comparatively, I feel travelling by bus is more safer. I repeat comparatively.

@WDM - you're not getting the point sir;
Does train have a seating permit to be approved by RTO? Regarding someone dying on tracks, I remember reading somewhere that there're no cases filed if someone dies on track; the case is simply closed if there're no eye witness. Train is completely a different league, lets not bring it here or open a separate thread.

My point is, if the Govt buses are violating the terms on seating capacity, making it in black & white, if the bus has been paid tax for 48+2+25, then carrying more people is considered as violating the law. Private buses do that & I don't deny that; how come Govt bus violate such a law that too when the laws are being passed by the Govt itself? Either cancel such laws on permits or allow everyone to violate.

If the Govt cannot adhere to one of its own law, then how come it is expected someone will follow it? Or why need such a law at all in first place?

@aargee.

I am not questioning the legality of this. But.
What purpose will this serve?

The Government is as usual going to say its strapped for funds. As is always the case with development works related to the common man. The people have no alternative. The rule is there to at least keep a tab on private players. People still prefer the Government run services because they are invariably cheaper.