[DIY410]

Originally Posted by wocanak

. We have two key questions

1) Max rate of charging

a) How does Tata even claim 50KW?
b) Why is it not reaching even 40.5 KW? Is it conservative BMS? Is it lack of active cell balancing? Is it limitation of the cooling system?

2) Size of LFP battery pack on sub-4m EVs
a) Has Tata has hit the max possible LFP battery pack size for each model?
b) Can the max LFP battery size be increased with battery packaging and/or chassis design?
c) If the size limits have been reached, does it mean we are never going to have a sub-4m LFP battery EV with real world range significantly more than ~300 km (+/- 10%)

1)
a) That is saying 50kw charger because the charger usually comes in 25kw and next jump in power is 50kw.
When I look at the battery pack of Nexon, its cooling lines and cooling contact area of each cell is not enough.

b) BMS has nothing to do with charging power, it does in theory based on the components but thats a really cheap part to upgrade the power rating. Its main job is to keep cells balanced.

2)
a, b, c) Correct. Tata has utilized as much space as possible. So the only way they can improve the kwh rating is to get a battery cell of higher energy density which even in newer LFP will cost more and is gobbled up by bigger EV manufacturers.

But with a pure battery only vehicle designed ground up as a EV only, they can implement blade style battery which will allow them to make a Cell to Pack like Byd Atto 3 which will also means then can make it a structural pack.

Further more to increase the charge rate higher then 1C, it will need a heat pump to chill the liquid coolant further then just traditional liquid cooling that dispates heat via a small radiator and fan.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

It is all about cost. Tesla also uses LFP battery in the base Model 3 and Y. You are also forgetting that cylindrical cells are a requirement for a structural battery pack so even though battery pack may be bigger or heavier than prismatic that fact it is structural might mean that its eventually lighter when installed in a car.

Not True. You can make a structural pack with prismatic cells. Blade batteries have a aluminium extrusion case and the height is 10mm higher then Tesla 4680 cell meaning the torsion strength of Blade pack is stronger then 4680 pack.

[v01d]

Media drive tomorrow.

[pgsagar]

Unofficial road test out already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2QtYHp4ZDs

[ferrarirules]

My two cents on the points being raised here

1. Why did Tata choose 35 KWH battery for the car? I see multiple reasons for it.

• Batteries larger than 40 KWH don't fit this size car.

Taking BYD as a good yard stick in the EV space. BYD Seagull (close to punch in dimensions) - link. Launched in 2023. The specifications are

• • Motor - 55 KW
  • Battery - 30.8 KWH or 38.8 KWH
  • Claimed Range - 305 kms or 405 kms
  • Dimensions (LxWxH) - 3780x1715x1540. Wheelbase - 2500

Now compare this to Punch. The specifications are

• • Motor - 60 or 90 K
  • Battery - 25KWH or 35 KW
  • Claimed Range - 315 kms or 421 kms
  • Dimensions (LxWxH) - 3857x1742x1633. Wheelbase - 2445

So what we want conclude out of this. World's largest EV manufacturer is also not providing a 40 KW battery in a small car.

• They couldn't have undercut Nexon LR by giving a near 40 KWH battery, 800v architecture. The car would have given a better range than Nexon LR and many prospective buyers would not be interested in Nexon LR. Already people are talking that Tiago top models and Nexon MR models being redundant after Punch EV launch.

2. Why didn't they give faster charging speeds? I see two reasons for it

• They are playing it safe as the battery warranty is for 8 years or 1,60,000 kms.
• Again they couldn't have undercut Nexon LR (currently their flagship model)

My take they should have at least taken it 1C charging speeds SOC which all manufacturers do as of today. BYD Seagull also provides 1C charging.

3. Why Tata mentions 50 KW charger when charging speed is slower?

• Current flows from higher potential to lower potential. Hence what they are intending to say is that on 50 KW charger, you will get the peak current flow aka maximum possible charging speed.

4. My opinion - Tata mentioned that the architecture supports upto 11KW AC and upto 150 KW. I think this is reserved for bigger cars like Cruvv, Harrier or Safari as these cars will compete with cars like MG ZS, Atto3 and Ioniq 5.

[ishekk]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules;57030141.

Why did Tata choose 35 KWH battery for the car? I see multiple reasons for it.

• Batteries larger than 40 KWH don't fit this size car.

Punch is dimensionally a bit smaller than nexon but on the other hand it's based on so called Tata's 2nd gen architecture. Hope they are able to fit atleast 50 kwh battery in Curvv and even with that they could be outdated within few months(e.g eVX by suzuki has 60 KWh battery). People won't spend money on a bigger EV car if it is going to end up as just a city car.

Why didn't they give faster charging speeds?

Reason could be that they see it as a city/2nd car where it is charged at home or at the office.

Other reason could be it was beyond its engineering capability(battery structure, cooling system etc.).

Why Tata mentions 50 KW charger when charging speed is slower?

It nowhere mentions 50KW as charging speed. Brochure just states when connected to a 50 kw charger. This is totally misleading to the consumers. Don't know what is stopping them from saying when connected to 100 KW charger They mention the same in Nexon's ev brochure and its charging speed never exceeds 30-35 KW even momentarily.

What actually matters in charging is average charging speed from 10% to 80% and not maximum charging speed. Here it is even slower than Nexon as Nexon has bigger battery but the charging times are same. Tata should not have marketed its acti.ev architecture having minimum charging speed of 50KW as it erodes/lowers the confidence when the actual product is launched.

[UNSC117]

Seems to me, that the pricing for such a car is justified. Decent range, looks and features. Good job Tata.

[PrasannaDhana]

I had the chance to see the Punch EV while visiting the dealer for 1st service of my Punch 1.2 petrol.

The interiors have minimal changes limited to the front armrest console, 10 inch infotainment and ventilated seats. I am hoping the same is provided in Punch IC uplift in 2025. The top end whitish grey shade looks very classy. Alloys too were nice. The car definitely looks much better in metal than in pics.

[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by ishekk

Other reason could be it was beyond its engineering capability(battery structure, cooling system etc.).

It is not beyond engineering capability according to me they are the ones who are seriously driving the EV future of this country. All the other manufacturer are just talks. So we will compare when they actually come to the market with products.

Example - XUV400 is 4.2m car with NMC batteries still it has a battery pack of 39.4 KWH where as MG ZS with almost similar size has 50KWH battery. So does it reflect on Mahindra's engineering capabilities despite having a head start with Reva?

Tata should not have marketed its acti.ev architecture having minimum charging speed of 50KW as it erodes/lowers the confidence when the actual product is launched.

Nowhere in the acti.ev architecture video minimum charging speed is mentioned. Only maximum ac and DC charging speed are mentioned

[shortbread]

Come to think of it a 122 hp electric Punch will be the perfect city pocket rocket. It's a city runabout + hot hatch, without the worries of petrol bills.

[pgsagar]

All variants explained with interior look. This looks better than Tata's own website.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsNIUC-eyk

IMO, Adventure LR is the best value for money. Comes with cruise control (for occasional highway runs), Long Range battery, 4-wheel disc brakes, 6 airbags, ACC, push-button start, folding ORVMs, digital instruments (basic), LED lights front and back, roof rails. MID is basic though.

[Venkatesh]

Tata Punch EV media drive reviews drops on Jan 23 at 4pm.

















Source : Autocar India, Evo India

[govind_kaniyath]

Nexon EV

I have clocked close to 48,000 km on my Nexon EV 2021. Back then, there was no long range variant on sale.

Throughout the almost 3 years of ownership, this was the usage:

Mostly used by me or my father as our personal car. The longest he takes the car is around 170kms one way. Does RFID card based fast charging and returns back.

Two of my uncles sometimes take it for trips which total about 150kms to and fro.

Aunt takes it for errands which is barely 10kms.

As I'm working in the EV charging industry, I occasionally take it on interstate roadtrips which go above 1000kms to and fro.

I was aware that next gen tata EVs are coming.
Acti.EV platform has some serious potential.

Just couple of hours before punch EV launch event, I called up my local tata dealership and took a booking for punch EV. They told I can choose the variant after a couple of days.
The main reason I toon the booking was to not miss out on introductory prices "if" I decide to buy.

I expected pricing for the LR variant to be close to Nexon EV's similar speced MR variant, but pricing of 14.49L for top variant is VFM!.

Now comes the big question, whether I should replace the Nexon EV with this.

Punch EV Visit

Punch EV had reached my local showroom, I went to check it out. Though testdrives didn't start yet.

Here are my quick observations, as I'm comparing this with my Nexon, I'll add those points too.

The colour

Tata website shows the "Empowered Oxide" colour is different in between punch and Nexon. But in reality, it's identical.




Interiors:

The infotainment system, instrument cluster, new two-spoke steering wheel, phygital AC panel, all adds a far more premium feel compared to ICE punch. The paddle shifter based regen selector is a nice touch.

But apart from screens and steering the overall interior of Nexon feels more premium than punch because of much more better plastics, propotions, airy feel, leatherette padded portions on doors. Button controls for AC any day over touch controls. Also, I drive with regen max even on expressways. 3 years of EV ownership have sharpened my single pedal driving skills. So the regen selector is not that important for me.

I'll call this a draw.



Seats and seating comfort:

Front seats have different bolstering when compared to ICE variant. On the shoulder part of the seat, it creates a "hugging" shape. The squab is flat when compared to Nexon.
Also a weird thing I noticed was, though ventilated seats were turned on to level 3, I didn't feel any air coming from the seat squab (back support). Hycross and Carens have ventilated seats, on those I could feel it. Not sure if this is an issue with this particular model.

The seats are not full leatherette, on the sides, it's fabric.

When comparing to Nexon, apart from ventilation, Nexon's seats are far better in every way.

Rear seats

Acti.EV platform promises better space efficiency than ziptron platform.

In the LR variant that I checked out, the floor is raised when compared to ICE version. BUT, its not as raised as Nexon LR version. Nexon MR has the best rear seats.

Also, there was a rod behind the front driver seat which was touching my shin when I was seated in the rear.
I'm 6'1 for reference.

Win goes to my Nexon here.

Nexon 1: Punch 0.

Tech:

Pure EV platform, arcade.EV, 360° cameras, slick infotainment.

caveats: No V2V/V2V, still using cylindrical cells instead of prismatic.

Still, Punch takes the win.

Nexon 1: Punch 1.




Boot:

Nexon not only gets a spare wheel, also has more usable space than punch.

Nexon 2: Punch 1

Road Presence:

Even with the new front fascia and DRL, it's unmistakably a punch. Nexon has much more SUVness.

Nexon 3: Punch 1.

Now comes the EV specific things

Range:

Tata hasn't disclosed the weight of tata punch.

If we assume Nexon MR, tiago and tigor gets about 200km range and Nexon LR gets about 260km range,
then this should where the range lie in between for Punch LR:

If punch has tigor weight, then 270km.
If punch has tiago weight, then 290km.

If punch weighs more, range will decrease.

But I feel it will atleast give Nexon LR like range.

Nexon 3: Punch 2




Charging

My Nexon has a 3.3kW on board charger, whereas punch has a 7kW OBC.

Also, both cars have 0.75C DC charging rate (75% charge in one hour). Though it's slow, punch will take 26.5kW compared to 21kW in Nexon.
Punch also has the charging port in the front.

Nexon 3: Punch 3

Architecture

This will determine how soon the car remains without getting outdated.

Also no wires hanging underneath the Punch.

Obvious win for Acti.EV powered Punch.

Nexon 3: Punch 4

Ride quality

Nexon will feel much more plusher and better than Punch EV.

Nexon 4: Punch 4.

Headroom:

Punch is taller than Nexon. But sunroof looks like an after thought on the punch. I had testdriven the punch ICE when it was launched, I didn't have any headroom issues back then.

On the Punch EV with sunroof, my head hit the sunroof assembly. I had to adjust the seat in order to get a 2 finger space in between.

Also, when seated in the rear, you can only see a tiny portion of the sunroof. The assembly where sunroof retracts to, hides the view of glass area.

When I sat in ICE version Punch at the dealership, the headroom difference was massive.
Also, the sunroof cover feels flimpsy.

Nexon doesn't have any such issues.

Nexon 5: Punch 4

Headlights:

I had done a painstaking OEM quality HID/LED upgrade on my nexon making night rides much more stress free. With Punch having fixed LEDs, they can't match my Nexon's lights nor can I swap them into the punch.

Now bulbs in Nexon prefacelift can be swapped with tata approved LEDs which are 60W per bulb.

Nexon 6: Punch 4





Here are some other things which I noticed in the Punch EV

The Main battery disconnect was underneath the car in my Nexon. It has now moved inside the bonnet alongside the HV disconnect.




The headlight assembly is same as in new Nexon facelift. The sticker on Punch's headlight says Nexon.



OBC/PDU/DCDC combo box sticker mentions 320 to 350V.



Also, I saw a post in teslaclubofindia which shows photo of spec plate of battery pack.

It says cell type is cylindrical. I don't understand why tata would opt for less space efficient cylindrical cells instead of far superior "prismatic cells".

Punch EV presentation says better space efficiency, I guess that's a minor packaging difference then.
eC3 uses prismatic cells, BYD blade cells are prismatic.




Now comes the big question, Should I replace my Nexon EV with Punch EV?

Apart from EV specific things, Nexon triumphs punch in every regard.

Most people will have nexon as thier only car or second car.

To those people, it makes sense to retain the Nexon itself.

If you get the Punch, it will feel like a downgrade.

But in my case, I'm lucky to have access to a multi car garage of Figo 2nd gen Diesel, Hycross Hybrid, Carens Diesel AT, Celerio AMT.

The former 3 are far better cruisers than Nexon EV or the Punch EV.

So, I value the EV aspects more than car aspects. Also, the usage of EV would increase as my family members would also take this for trips which the Nexon couldn't do on a single charge. Thus, I'm planning to replace the Nexon with the punch.

However I'm waiting for real world range figures.

Also, I had done a painstaking OEM quality HID/LED upgrade on my nexon making night rides much more stress free. With Punch having fixed LEDs, they can't match my Nexon's lights nor can I swap them into the punch.


For those who are planning to buy the tiago EV, I'd reccomend getting the Punch.

For those who are planning to buy the new Nexon EV or XUV 400, pure EV/ Born EVs are right around the corner. Curvv EV should launch in June. I'd suggest to wait for that.

[v01d]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

All variants explained with interior look. This looks better than Tata's own website.

The 3d models shown in the video are indeed from Tata's own website. Their digital showroom is a wonderful tool!

Some of the subtler things like interior-feel are much better understood with the 3d models as against a table in the brochure.

[akkosetto]

It appears darker shades look better in this as it “hides” charging port flap and its fit/finish issues. They should have used a dark one in press photos.

[ashutoshb]

Originally Posted by akkosetto

It appears darker shades look better in this as it “hides” charging port flap and its fit/finish issues. They should have used a dark one in press photos.

Exactly what I was thinking. Darker shades hide the charging door better.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=jKiAbzVv...lwgfOyZ6O3qhr8