[madrasilemon]

Dear EV owners, sorry for bumping into a thread exclusively made for you folks. When I was planning to replace my humble Yamaha SZ (I exchanged it for an RE Bullet), I made this back of envelope calculation. A revolt 400 would cost approximately Rs. 1.40 lakh. My running of 1000 kilometres translates to total fuel cost of Rs. 1.40 lakh in a span of four years. If I assume that I would have recovered the cost of a Revolt 400, if I had bought now, fact remains, battery would have exhausted and I would be looking at another capital investment of say 50k. Thus, recovery of capital cost might be a mirage. Correct me if I am wrong.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by madrasilemon

Dear EV owners, sorry for bumping into a thread exclusively made for you folks. When I was planning to replace my humble Yamaha SZ (I exchanged it for an RE Bullet), I made this back of envelope calculation. A revolt 400 would cost approximately Rs. 1.40 lakh. My running of 1000 kilometres translates to total fuel cost of Rs. 1.40 lakh in a span of four years. If I assume that I would have recovered the cost of a Revolt 400, if I had bought now, fact remains, battery would have exhausted and I would be looking at another capital investment of say 50k. Thus, recovery of capital cost might be a mirage. Correct me if I am wrong.

How does the battery get exhausted?

[DIY410]

I love data and its all in the details. Some of them who voted have explained why they choose to vote 'NO'.

Since rougly 24% of the people voted 'NO' as of this post, one may get the impression that a lot of EV owners regretted buying their EV.

But out of the 28 people who voted 'NO', only 4 of them are EV owners including 2 wheeler. With another 4 having at least made a post about EV or driven them for a test drive, some of them being mostly put off by Tata EV niggles or slow charging of Tata EV.
One person who voted 'NO' does in fact drive a relatively niggle free MG ZS EV, would love to hear reason as to why they voted 'NO'.

The rest of the them have not made any post what's so ever with regard to EV. Some of them who voted 'NO' have not even posted in 15 years or so.

Contrast this to the people who voted 'Yes', most are active on EV section of the forum and many of them are EV owners.

[payeng]

Of course I'll still would have bought an EV... in fact after tasting "EV" blood there is no going back to ICE.

Its like asking to choose between a Smart Phone and a Dumb Phone.

[Thilak29]

Currently owning Tiago EV, did 20,000 odd kms in 12 months (almost one month of no run, multiple international travels during the period when car was parked, also spending 1/3rd of rest of month being in a different town on work) - I have done South India road trip in this EV, multiple intercity trips (350+km one way). I love how this car performs on short runs and meets most of of my expectations from the car.

I will buy EV again for sure.

[exhaustpipe]

Originally Posted by electric_eel

Which is going to take a lot of time. At what percentage would you want to consider
an EV. Here is a simple calculation that should convince you that EV's are already a much cleaner option.

Let us say that the efficiency of the electric drive train is η (i.e only η fraction of the energy supplied to the battery comes out as effective work. We will need 1/η units of electricity to do 1 unit of work. If β fraction of this electricity comes from fossil fuel then we are spending β/η units of dirty energy for 1 unit of work by the car. Assuming that the ICE drive train is 100% efficient, i.e. it converts 1 unit of dirty energy to 1 unit of work, we will still be better of using EV as long as the fraction of dirty energy in our grid is < η fraction.


What is a realistic estimate of η. I would assume that η = 0.7 is not unreasonable because the efficiency of motor is about 0.9 and let us say the charging/discharging (particularly when slow charging) is each 0.9. Which gives us eta = 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.7. So as long as the fraction of dirty energy in our grid is < 0.7 or alternatively if our grid is at least 0.3 percent green EVs are going to be greener than ICEs even assuming 100% efficiency for ICE. Now factor into this the fact that ICE drive train a grossly inefficient (0.4 is probably the best one can get) you see where the calculation goes.

In short, even with the current mix of energy in India we are much much better of with an EV. And we are adding renewables constantly.

In reality, even when the grid is 100% coal fired, it makes sense to have an EV because of the overall efficiencies of the electric drive train + coal power plant works out much better than the inefficiency of then ICE drive train. And unlike oil, Indian has coal reserves. I would assume that you are also not a hybrid fan either because that too is 100% fossil fuel to charge the battery.

This is an incomplete equation.

You also need to account for generation loss, transmission line loss, distribution line and network loss; and battery charging loss before comparing EVs with ICE engines. I don't think after putting in all these numbers EVs are going to be more environment friendly than ICE cars, especially with most of our electricity coming from conventional sources such as coal and gas.

Additional, in general, EVs have more tyre wear due to their extra weight as compared to ICE vehicles. They contribute differently to air pollution.

Also, ICE engines can go on for 20+ years without requiring any major overhaul while an EV battery will require replacement after 8 to 10 years, more pollution and strain on our resources.

Disclaimer: I am not partial towards ICE cars

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by exhaustpipe

This is an incomplete equation.
You also need to account for generation loss, transmission line loss, distribution line and network loss; and battery charging loss before comparing EVs with ICE engines. I don't think after putting in all these numbers EVs are going to be more environment friendly than ICE cars, especially with most of our electricity coming from conventional sources such as coal and gas.

One does not need to because I am not counting the energy used for mining, refining, transporting crude/petrol/diesel either. Additionally there are other "emission side show"
which are probably worse than the main show

https://environmentamerica.org/texas...permian-basin/

The claim that EVs are worse of than ICE falls into the "not even wrong" category of claims sustained by consistent propaganda by Oil companies.

[roy_libran]

We own a Tiago EV, and we originally bought it to save costs of a massive daily commute. However, over the last 18000 kms. we have come to love the ease of driving an EV in dense traffic and otherwise, so much so, that it is now our GO-TO choice of car unless we need the space.
Ever since the Punch EV came out, we have also toyed with the idea of upgrading to it, and shall most certainly buy more EVs in the future.

[Hume]

Originally Posted by madrasilemon

A revolt 400 would cost approximately Rs. 1.40 lakh. My running of 1000 kilometres translates to total fuel cost of Rs. 1.40 lakh in a span of four years. If I assume that I would have recovered the cost of a Revolt 400, if I had bought now, fact remains, battery would have exhausted and I would be looking at another capital investment of say 50k. Thus, recovery of capital cost might be a mirage. Correct me if I am wrong.

Originally Posted by exhaustpipe

Also, ICE engines can go on for 20+ years without requiring any major overhaul while an EV battery will require replacement after 8 to 10 years, more pollution and strain on our resources.

Assumptions in both cases - Revolt's battery exhausting and needing replacement in four years and an EV battery needing replacement after 8-10 years - are factually incorrect! Also for the second case, without going into whether the EV batteries can in fact outlast ICE engines (different subject altogether), I don't know how many of us are actually keeping their ICE vehicles for 20+ years!

But in most cases, it is generally agreed that EV battery should outlast the vehicle itself. There are in fact real-life examples online that support that theory. PFB one such and I'm sure you'll see plenty more as time goes :

https://youtu.be/wOFfKQ7SxEg?feature=shared

Despite this and also due to the relatively nascent stage of current mass market EV industry, most manufacturers give an 8 year warranty. This by itself should allay fears of this nature.

It is also just as important to note that while the battery might degrade over time, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is unusable. Even after the warranty period expires, they can still have a significant portion of their original capacity rendering the vehicle very much usable.

And finally, as technology continues to make good strides and with more RL examples to base on, I feel this fear will completely vanish in quick time.

If it isn't for the possible inconvenience of EV charging which is certainly a challenge/compromise for some, for the rest of the reasons, EVs are incredible! I am not going back to an ICE, especially for a city car.

[Aditya]

Mod Notes: No EV vs ICE discussion please. Let owners share their experiences and opinions here.

[GutsyGibbon]

In SoCal when I go to a place that has a lot of Asians and desis, (like tennis courts) 8 out of 10 cars would be Teslas. 6 Model Ys and couple model 3s. Many of my friends now have 2 Teslas - a model 3 and a Y. My model 3 is 6+ years old. It just works, no major maintenance in 6 years. Just regular wear of tires, wipers, cabin air filters and such. It has done several multi day trips that were 1000+ miles.

My pickup truck would have been a Rivian if there was a 4x4 with a 6.5ft bed. For vehicles we use daily, or regularly - EVs are a no brainer where I live. Especially in single family homes with roof top solar. I have spent 0 minutes trying to fuel up at budget gas stations like Costco.

For recreation vehicles, that consume a lot of energy and can go off to remote areas, gas/diesel is the only feasible option.

[navinmra]

Of course I will buy an EV again, because
1. It’s ultra smooth with lowest NVH for it’s price range
2. Long drives are fatigue free
3. There’s always something new to learn and experience about the technology
4. ⁠The next generation ones will be even better at an even more compelling price point
5. ⁠Exhaust emissions in ICE cars are in big part dependent on how well they are maintained and driven. Idling emissions are the worst. When I see badly maintained cabs and private cars belching fumes, I cringe at the mess we’ve gotten ourselves into in our cities
6. Battery recycling (and second life) are real and make economic and environmental sense and will go a long way in reducing mining for rare earths

The only reason I may not buy another EV is that this current EV of mine my outlive me

[V.Narayan]

I invested in an EV {Volvo C40} not to save the world or enhance my green credentials or prove something to others but simply because it was a great car - driving characteristics, speed, acceleration, braking, turning hard, 5-star NVH, smashing looks {in my eyes at least :-)}, needs very little maintenance, Volvo's excellent A.S.S. and so on. With a second car that is an ICE and with private parking where I have installed a charger some of the genuine difficulties associated with EVs are behind me. If I have to drive long distance I'll simply use the ICE. I concede that is a luxury every owner may not have but then each of us have our own unique circumstances.

Net, net I invested in an EV because for my needs it was very simply the better car. as simple as that.

My next car purchase will be in about 5 to 6 years by when I expect EV technology, ranges and charging infrastructure to be significantly better than today. I would be aiming for an entry level luxury sedan. Would it be an EV - a resounding yes.

Originally Posted by DIY410

But out of the 28 people who voted 'NO', only 4 of them are EV owners including 2 wheeler. With another 4 having at least made a post about EV or driven them for a test drive, some of them being mostly put off by Tata EV niggles or slow charging of Tata EV.

Thank you @DIY410. I love your analysis and the way it shines a torch on EV baiters.

The rest of the them have not made any post what's so ever with regard to EV. Some of them who voted 'NO' have not even posted in 15 years or so.

you never kick a dead dog. So some hard truths about EVs is stirring their loins.

[UD17]

Originally Posted by DIY410

The rest of the them have not made any post what's so ever with regard to EV.

Must say a wonderful analysis. I have voted 'No' and choose the Hycross Hybrid (most EVs were in my budget). 3 rationale to not choose EV: Range (& charging), Safety, Fast evolution of new tech, Maintenance

- Range (& Charging): I travel long distances with family quite often (once every month), the last thing i want is to plan for charging (and for contingency with plan A/B/C). There were already so many factors to be planned with family, that i don't want to plan for this BIG factor that sacrifices time and most of the time would be out of our control. We friends travelled to Goa (from Pune) once in a Gen 1 Nexon EV (this trip was not recent but i am not sure if more charging points are installed now in the Mumbai-Bangalore highway), we had to struggle a lot to charge the EV. The Tata power chargers were out of order that day and it results in lot of stress and loss of 4 hours of our trip (which is not acceptable).

On charging other big issue is where do i charge my vehicle on daily basis. My Apartment's association did not allow any charging in the basement of our building and that's where i have a lone parking spot. Same in office, most of the charging spots are taken by logistics fleet.


- Safety: I still perceive that EVs are more riskier that ICE, considering all the QC lapses happen in our market and unskilled manpower put on for the critical safety work in our factories.

-Fast evolution of new tech: New tech are evolving every year, I keep my car for long so don't want a buyers remorse later on. My plan is to enjoy the hybrid for now and jump to EVs once the market and Technology matures (very hard to guess timelines as of now).

-Maintenance: One of the important factor. With the pathetic state of our dealerships (even on ICE maintenance), any smaller issues in EVs are bound to give headache to owners. There is so much software involved that the mechanical based labor forces (majority) can not provide seamless experience of maintenance . I believe this is the most critical area where OEM should work. Personally i don't want my car to spend time at dealerships.

Did i experienced EVs personally- Yes, I love the overall feeling of silent drives.

Would i jump to EVs in future: Yes, once i feel comfortable on safety/maintenance aspects and once the charging infrasturture allows me to enjoy the long drives without excessive planning.

[Way2Jimny]

Originally Posted by UD17

Must say a wonderful analysis. I have voted 'No' and choose the Hycross Hybrid (most EVs were in my budget). 3 rationale to not choose EV: Range (& charging), Safety, Fast evolution of new tech, Maintenance

Agree with your rationale of choosing an Hybrid. Hycross is a great car.
But this thread is to understand if there are any regrets from current EV owners and if they will go for an EV again.
By voting 'No' it gives a false impression to the viewers.