[AMG Power]

Some stories are over before they make a proper beginning and it looks like the Audi Q8 etron will be one among them. The lack of demand for EV’s in this segment is the primary reason being quoted. Is this a reflection of the future of EV’s ? Not really, according to Audi.

As of now, Audi intends to end production of the Q8 E-tron electric SUV early as it contemplates the closure of its factory in Brussels, Belgium.

The Audi Q8 E-tron, originally known as just the E-tron, entered production in 2018 as Audi's first series-production electric car and was heavily updated in 2022 with a new name, tweaked styling and a much larger battery.

It was expected to remain in production until around the middle of the decade as the flagship for an electric SUV line-up that now also includes the smaller Q4 E-tron and mid-sized Q6 E-tron.

But now, Audi says a "global decline in customer orders in the electric luxury-class segment" threatens the large SUV's viability and the company has laid out plans to restructure the Brussels facility where it is built.

Belgian law dictates that Audi enters into a consultation process with the workers' council and other "responsible social partners" to discuss potential alternatives to ending production, but the company notes that a "cessation of operations" is possible.

Audi notes the drop in demand for the Q8 E-tron is "segment specific" and has not indicated that any of its other EVs are affected.

Tesla sales dropping. Audi closing factories. Mercedes focusing on ICE. Dangerous portents?

Source

[AMG Power]

The Q8 etron wasn’t a great car. Audi, in its quest to give owners an ICE feel, programmed linearity into the drive. This meant that the surge one gets with EV’s was totally lacking. Maybe even to a fault.

In my drive, the car felt almost lethargic - certainly not as fast as one would expect from an EV in this segment, was heavy, didn’t like being hustled around corners - hustled anywhere actually - and a pain when driven fast.

With a car like this, it’s not surprising that sales were low. But what Audi have guessed accurately is that it would never have set the sales chart on fire.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

The Q8 etron wasn’t a great car. Audi, in its quest to give owners an ICE feel, programmed linearity into the drive. This meant that the surge one gets with EV’s was totally lacking. Maybe even to a fault.

In my drive, the car felt almost lethargic - certainly not as fast as one would expect from an EV in this segment, was heavy, didn’t like being hustled around corners - hustled anywhere actually - and a pain when driven fast.

With a car like this, it’s not surprising that sales were low. But what Audi have guessed accurately is that it would never have set the sales chart on fire.

Having driven the Q8 e-Tron extensively, I beg to differ.

It’s a pretty rapid EV and you really feel all of those 400 odd horsepowers. 0-100 km/h in 5.5 seconds is plenty quick, and it’s quite relentless beyond that as well.

The car shrinks around you when driven quickly through back-roads, and the suspension is super-trick, adjusting itself and breathing with the road surface almost impeccably.

You do feel the car’s weight from time to time, and it’s a pretty porky thing. But it more than makes up for it, in my opinion.

The biggest problem with it was in fact its pricing. It’s far too expensive, not just in India but anywhere and wherever it is sold. It does not justify the price tag it wears.

The advent of Chinese EVs in various markets dealt the e-Tron its final blow.

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Having driven the Q8 e-Tron extensively, I beg to differ.

It’s a pretty rapid EV and you really feel all of those 400 odd horsepowers. 0-100 km/h in 5.5 seconds is plenty quick, and it’s quite relentless beyond that as well.

The car shrinks around you when driven quickly through back-roads, and the suspension is super-trick, adjusting itself and breathing with the road surface almost impeccably.

You do feel the car’s weight from time to time, and it’s a pretty porky thing. But it more than makes up for it, in my opinion.

The biggest problem with it was in fact its pricing. It’s far too expensive, not just in India but anywhere and wherever it is sold. It does not justify the price tag it wears.

The advent of Chinese EVs in various markets dealt the e-Tron its final blow.

After reading your post, I just checked some reviews of the Q8 etron and they seem to echo what I’ve stated.

Autocar UK:




TopGear:



Having said that, all of these are individual perspectives. I also just noticed that you had made the team bhp review. To each his own I guess.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

After reading your post, I just checked some reviews of the Q8 etron and they seem to echo what I’ve stated.

Autocar UK:

Attachment 2626120


TopGear:

Attachment 2626121

Having said that, all of these are individual perspectives. I also just noticed that you had made the team bhp review. To each his own I guess.

I will reiterate that it is a fast car. 0-100 in 5.6 seconds is fast by any standards.

If you read the review carefully, you will see how we have stated explicitly that the fun factor is missing from it.

My point being - the car wasn’t axed because it is dull or lethargic to drive. The car is being axed because the demand for it simply isn’t there due to two factors: 1) it’s far too expensive for what it offers, and 2) Chinese EV takeover has hurt the big three German manufacturers, and it won’t be long before they are forced to reinvent themselves.

Fact is, most EVs are dull to drive because rapid straight line acceleration does get old after a while. There aren’t too many EVs that are fun to drive, this side of the Taycan. I’m sure you’d agree.

[Axe77]

My sense is that this production will also migrate to Ingolstadt (tag teaming with the Gyor Hungary facility for the drive) once they have an all new Q8 e-tron based on the new PPE architecture. The key news here is closing or restructuring the production facility out of Belgium - this doesn’t spell the end of the Q8 per se but we’ll just have to wait till the next PPE based iteration of this emerges.

With the launch of the Q6 e-tron, it probably didn’t make sense to continue the aging Q8 e-tron longer than needed and I suppose demand for it would indeed have been thin as mentioned above, with the much more modern Q6 now in play.

EDIT: I had this window open while replying for a while and had only seen the first two posts. Missed this subsequent exchange between AMG and Suhaas before pressing “save”.

Having driven and reviewed the Q6, I can understand what Suhaas is saying. These cars are plenty fast, but they’re just fast in a very different way and perhaps lack the drama which many of us enjoy with our turbo charged ICE cars.

To my mind, there are multiple reasons why top deck EVs may have had muted success. In addition to the reasons cited by Suhaas, I’d add it’s also the massive depreciation some of these cars see given we’re still in early stages of EV where tech is rapidly advancing. For instance, even though I’m not averse to buying a 1 crore car from a budget standpoint, I’d be hesitant to spend more than 45 - 50L on an EV today at least. Will I buy a 1.25 cr X5 - quite likely yes. Would I spend 1.25 cr on an EV. Most certainly, no. The tech is evolving too quickly and the depreciation hits are just way too steep.

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

I will reiterate that it is a fast car. 0-100 in 5.6 seconds is fast by any standards.

If you read the review carefully, you will see how we have stated explicitly that the fun factor is missing from it.

My point being - the car wasn’t axed because it is dull or lethargic to drive. The car is being axed because the demand for it simply isn’t there due to two factors: 1) it’s far too expensive for what it offers, and 2) Chinese EV takeover has hurt the big three German manufacturers, and it won’t be long before they are forced to reinvent themselves.

Fact is, most EVs are dull to drive because rapid straight line acceleration does get old after a while. There aren’t too many EVs that are fun to drive, this side of the Taycan. I’m sure you’d agree.

As I’ve said, to each his own, if you think its a fast car so be it as that is your opinion while my impressions were different. One of the main reasons was that the surge found in EV’s was lacking.

And it’s not the 0-100 times alone that decide whether an EV is fast but the roll on times and when all that power is available - for most EV’s its at 0001 rpm but Audi has intentionally dulled that substantially. If you look at other EV’s the shove comes in quick, there is very little linearity and that makes EV’s appear faster than cars with equivalent 0-100 times.

And then theres the handling, its not a car designed to be driven fast, with all that heft and 2.5 tonne weight it wasn’t going a good handler anyway.

So, while its dull and unexciting to drive - haven’t attributed that as the reason as to why it would be axed but rather as to why sales were low and as a result the potential axing of the car. (It hasn’t been axed as yet)

As TopGear concludes “Easy to live with, but is that all you want at this money?”. Maybe a lot of folks thought along those lines too.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Having driven and reviewed the Q6, I can understand what Suhaas is saying. These cars are plenty fast, but they’re just fast in a very different way and perhaps lack the drama which many of us enjoy with our turbo charged ICE cars.

To my mind, there are multiple reasons why top deck EVs may have had muted success. In addition to the reasons cited by Suhaas, I’d add it’s also the massive depreciation some of these cars see given we’re still in early stages of EV where tech is rapidly advancing. For instance, even though I’m not averse to buying a 1 crore car from a budget standpoint, I’d be hesitant to spend more than 45 - 50L on an EV today at least. Will I buy a 1.25 cr X5 - quite likely yes. Would I spend 1.25 cr on an EV. Most certainly, no. The tech is evolving too quickly and the depreciation hits are just way too steep.

Thanks for clarifying, Axe! This is an extremely pertinent point that I neglected to mention. Depreciation is certainly a factor that has played a role in poor sales of most expensive and premium EVs.

Originally Posted by AMG Power

As I’ve said, to each his own, if you think its a fast car so be it as that is your opinion while my impressions were different. One of the main reasons was that the surge found in EV’s was lacking.

And it’s not the 0-100 times alone that decide whether an EV is fast but the roll on times and when all that power is available - for most EV’s its at 0001 rpm but Audi has intentionally dulled that substantially. If you look at other EV’s the shove comes in quick, there is very little linearity and that makes EV’s appear faster than cars with equivalent 0-100 times.

And then theres the handling, its not a car designed to be driven fast, with all that heft and 2.5 tonne weight it wasn’t going a good handler anyway.

So, while its dull and unexciting to drive - haven’t attributed that as the reason as to why it would be axed but rather as to why sales were low and as a result the potential axing of the car. (It hasn’t been axed as yet)

As TopGear concludes “Easy to live with, but is that all you want at this money?”. Maybe a lot of folks thought along those lines too.

So what you are essentially saying is that the Q8 e-Tron is not fast, and therefore unexciting to drive, resulting in poor sales, and as a consequence Audi is mulling closure of its facility in Belgium and proposing to axe the car altogether.

The proposed axing of the model and closure of its facility has nothing to do with: 1) dwindling EV sales amongst the big 3 German conglomerates, 2) rise of Chinese EVs and 3) huge depreciation experienced in the premium EV sector.

The Q8 e-Tron was never meant to set the drag strip on fire, clip orange cones on a slalom run without disturbing them, or even hang with supercars on a Sunday drive. The intended purpose of this car is to haul family members and dog to holiday homes, school runs, grocery shopping, and similar activities. It is a 2500 kilo behemoth of a family car, and admittedly Audi has clipped its claws for good reason.

I do agree that it’s not an extremely exciting car to drive, and that it’s not blisteringly fast, and that it’s dynamically not as accomplished as a super SUV. But to say that these are the reasons for poor sales and consequential axing is just incorrect.

EDIT: Top Gear’s conclusion is actually perfect. It boils down to the money! And this is a sentiment that I had also expressed in my post. For what it offers, the Q8 e-Tron is just not worth the money.

[SmartCat]

I have a slightly different theory.

It is not the price. Lease schemes in US is mouth watering. $5000 payment and $600 per month gets you a $80,000 car. Meanwhile, Rivian sales are booming. Tesla will eventually pick up pace too
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/04/10...current-sales/

I suspect Mercedes/Audi suffers from demographics (age profile) problem. Average age of an expensive ($60,000+) premium German ICE car customer is 50 or 60 years old in US/Europe. But younger buyers are willing to plonk $70,000 or $80,000 on a car, as long as it is an EV. And they tend to gravitate towards "cooler" brands like Tesla/Rivian/Lucid etc.

My brother-in-law bought a Rivian pickup truck recently. He never even bothered to look up what traditional premium (Germans, JLR, Volvo etc) car makers have to offer

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Will I buy a 1.25 cr X5 - quite likely yes. Would I spend 1.25 cr on an EV. Most certainly, no. The tech is evolving too quickly and the depreciation hits are just way too steep.

True.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

So what you are essentially saying is that the Q8 e-Tron is not fast, and therefore unexciting to drive, resulting in poor sales, and as a consequence Audi is mulling closure of its facility in Belgium and proposing to axe the car altogether.

The proposed axing of the model and closure of its facility has nothing to do with: 1) dwindling EV sales amongst the big 3 German conglomerates, 2) rise of Chinese EVs and 3) huge depreciation experienced in the premium EV sector.

The Q8 e-Tron was never meant to set the drag strip on fire, clip orange cones on a slalom run without disturbing them, or even hang with supercars on a Sunday drive. The intended purpose of this car is to haul family members and dog to holiday homes, school runs, grocery shopping, and similar activities. It is a 2500 kilo behemoth of a family car, and admittedly Audi has clipped its claws for good reason.

I do agree that it’s not an extremely exciting car to drive, and that it’s not blisteringly fast, and that it’s dynamically not as accomplished as a super SUV. But to say that these are the reasons for poor sales and consequential axing is just incorrect.

EDIT: Top Gear’s conclusion is actually perfect. It boils down to the money! And this is a sentiment that I had also expressed in my post. For what it offers, the Q8 e-Tron is just not worth the money.

The reasons for axing the Q8 etron have been indicated in its press roll out - “segment-specific intensified drop in demand” and “ With VW’s next-generation Premium Platform Electric architecture being rolled out, the company is “now seeing a drop in demand for the Q8 e-tron”, resulting “in a sharp drop in incoming orders”.

One can attribute a whole lot of reasons for that but it would all be conjecture at this point. Far lower performance and handling than expected is certainly valid for decline in sales in any automotive product though it may not be the only reason.

On another note, its not just the Q8 etron thats facing the heat. Tesla is also experiencing declining sales - ending talks with India and a lot of unsold cars lying everywhere. The general decline has made Mercedes focus more on ICE.

Even Porsche has had a 51% decrease in Taycan sales in 2024 and is mulling reducing production.

It’s a general declining trend and dull cars like Q8 etron would be the first to feel the heat.

TopGear has said

“But it's also pretty dull. This is a 2,500kg+ car that you'll never throw around with intent, it's a waft-express that's comfy, isolating and quiet. And beyond that it's simply not that interesting.”

Falls in line with what I have said which is different from:

“The car shrinks around you when driven quickly through back-roads, and the suspension is super-trick, adjusting itself and breathing with the road surface almost impeccably.”

As I said earlier, to each his own.

EDIT: Agree with Top Gear on the money bit too.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

On another note, its not just the Q8 etron thats facing the heat. Tesla is also experiencing declining sales - ending talks with India and a lot of unsold cars lying everywhere. The general decline has made Mercedes focus more on ICE.

Even Porsche has had a 51% decrease in Taycan sales in 2024 and is mulling reducing production.

It’s a general declining trend and dull cars like Q8 etron would be the first to feel the heat.

Thank you. Finally, some agreement and consensus. In your own way, I suppose.

Originally Posted by AMG Power

TopGear has said

“But it's also pretty dull. This is a 2,500kg+ car that you'll never throw around with intent, it's a waft-express that's comfy, isolating and quiet. And beyond that it's simply not that interesting.”

Falls in line with what I have said which is different from:

“The car shrinks around you when driven quickly through back-roads, and the suspension is super-trick, adjusting itself and breathing with the road surface almost impeccably.”

As I said earlier, to each his own.

I urge you to read, and re-read what I have posted, not just in this thread but also on the review thread.

The car shrinks around you, and the suspension being super trick, does not in any way imply that the handling is fantastic. It means that the car rides well and is composed even when driven quickly. It does not mean that it corners like a Lotus.

What you have said is the car is not fun to drive, therefore it did not sell well, which resulted in Audi pulling the plug on the car and closing it’s assembly line - and that’s simply not true at all.

As you have mentioned yourself in your latest post, EV sales are on the decline worldwide and the lack of demand is what has pushed Audi and several other manufacturers to reconsider their respective positions.

It has little to do with a prospective customer being unhappy by the lack of: 1) outright acceleration and performance, or 2) Lotus-like handling.

It has more to do with the prohibitively expensive price tags, not to mention uncontrollable depreciation, in the wake of more appealing and pocket-friendly EVs developed by the Chinese auto industry.

I will now bow out of this discussion because my opinion does not matter anyway when the facts are clear as day.

[nidhikapoor]

Other than being marginally smaller, the Q6 is in every way a better and lower priced car than the Q8. THAT's why the Q8 has been dropped. No one will buy the Q8 when the Q6 becomes available. Also the Q6 is on a new EV platform unlike the Q8.

The Q8 was intended to fill their EV gap till the new platform was ready.

I'm guessing we'll see a new Q8 based on the PPE platform in a couple of years.

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

I urge you to read, and re-read what I have posted, not just in this thread but also on the review thread.

The car shrinks around you, and the suspension being super trick, does not in any way imply that the handling is fantastic. It means that the car rides well and is composed even when driven quickly. It does not mean that it corners like a Lotus.

What you have said is the car is not fun to drive, therefore it did not sell well, which resulted in Audi pulling the plug on the car and closing it’s assembly line - and that’s simply not true at all.

As you have mentioned yourself in your latest post, EV sales are on the decline worldwide and the lack of demand is what has pushed Audi and several other manufacturers to reconsider their respective positions.

It has little to do with a prospective customer being unhappy by the lack of: 1) outright acceleration and performance, or 2) Lotus-like handling.

It has more to do with the prohibitively expensive price tags, not to mention uncontrollable depreciation, in the wake of more appealing and pocket-friendly EVs developed by the Chinese auto industry.

I will now bow out of this discussion because my opinion does not matter anyway when the facts are clear as day.

There are two points being debated here - (1) reason for decline in sales and (2) performance and handling attributes of the car

(1) As I’ve already mentioned, decline in sales can be due to a host of reasons and poor performance & handling would very well be one of them. I would not buy a car if the performance and handling was found wanting and there would be several others who would think on those lines.

To say that poor performance and handling is the only reason for decline in sales would be wrong. My reference to that is because that was the point that put me off the e tron the most. The general declining EV sales has certainly added to the poor sales of the e tron.

(2) And this is where we disagree..

Originally Posted by suhaas307

The car shrinks around you..

So I’ll leave you with these from Top Gear and Carwow:

[volkman10]

Official press release:

[nidhikapoor]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Official press release:

Attachment 2626291

Exactly what I had said above. With the launch of the Q6 on the PPE platform no one wants the non ev platform Q8 anymore. They will re launch a new Q8 on the PPE platform in time.