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-   -   MG Cloud spotted testing in India. EDIT: Named Windsor (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/electric-cars/283252-mg-cloud-spotted-testing-india-edit-named-windsor-28.html)

- 6 years as life of battery is my assumption. That helped us calculate the approximate principal/loan amount. If MG has a fineprint that says 8 years, just input that number and arrive at the principal amount. It is quite likely that they have a iphone-like "Battery Health" checker. Perhaps if it is below 80%, they will replace the battery at the end of X years.

- From the customer point of view, he is taking fresh loan for a new battery whenever it is replaced. The loan balance is transferred to 2nd/3rd owner etc as the car is sold.

- Unlikely finance company will ask to pay off the "residual value" of a battery. Because then, there needs to be a process/systems in place to determine the fair value of a battery at any point of time and also disclose the value to the customer. So with MG Windsor, very likely the finance company will always own the battery, and not the customer.


- Instead of interest charged percentage, they have mentioned price per km. EMI works out to be 1500 x 5.8 = Rs. 8,700 per month
- Loan amount is Rs. 3 Lakh, Tenure is 6 years (as before)
- Using the Loan/EMI formula, interest rate charged for those with lower credit quality works out to be around 12% pa.

True "as a service" models will not have variable interest rates. For eg: LivPure Water Purifier Rentals. But then, the principal amount is low. But in case of BaaS, the financial institution has to account for non-payment for battery rentals for a significant percentage of their customer base. Hence the higher rates.

The most logical explanation till date. If MG had launched the car at 13 lakh or 14 lakh base model with all the space and positives it had, people wouldn't have been talking about their weird financing schemes and would have been talking about the car.

MG folks if they are reading can think of hiring "Smartcat" as consultant lol:

I hope better sense prevails on Oct 3 and MG either clarifies in detail on BaaS or just launches the price of complete car with BaaS as option for people who have financial brain for it.

Does Rs.3.5 per KM includes GST? In Telangana state, we have RTA(Life Tax) is 17% even for EV vehicles.
I can save that easily for Battery cost of 3-4Lakhs (~50-60K of Life tax) if there is no GST.
In fact, I am more inclined for 3years 60% buyback plan as EV vehicles depreciate by big amount.
I think this is very good option what MG is offering considering all the unknowns of EV.

Sorry to ask as could not find this info.
What would be the ex showroom price for Windsor EV? 9.99L? So the insurance, registration and taxes would be computed on shell only? Is this legal? Why cannot the ICE manufacturer launch EAAS ( Engine as a service ) to lower the tax burden?

So many more questions in my head. Please if someone can shed some light on it.

Hi, let me try to share some positivity about Windsor and its BAAS plan. My calculations may not be 100% accurate and someone into mutual fund can guide better. Those who have money to buy their vehicle cash down or minimum loan can opt for the Windsor EV and put the money saved in Systematic Withdrawal Plan of a Mutual Fund. Attached sheet is just an illustration and actual return & invested amount may be slightly different for persons.

I would like to add that Windsor EV is a brilliant product and if I have charging facility at my high rise apartment, I would buy it on day one (because I can buy cash down & also invest in SWP to meet monthly BAAS expense)

Now that everyone has made peace with whether they like the BaaS or not.

Am I the only one who thinks it looks like a result of a matrimonial union between a Honda Jazz and a Cow :p ?

As a product and the associated offering, it is actually making a lot of sense for my family.

We have a 17 yr old Honda Civic AT and a 17 yr old Mahindra Renault Logan Diesel. Both cars are far overdue for replacement. Only one is needed now.

Coincidentally, the Windsor is

1. As powerful as the Civic
2. Has the same wheelbase as the Civic
3. Has a boot larger than the Logan
4. Has a per km city running cost lower than the Logan Diesel
5. Is automatic like the Civic
6. Is a brand new car that costs the same to acquire a much smaller i20 AT.
7. Has enough single charge range to cover our most frequent highway trip (Pune - Nashik)

The only thing against it is the looks. I think we could work with that.

Bajaj Finserv says you cannot drive your car for more than 1500kms in a month even if you are ready to pay for it

Again, yet another interpretation to the fore. Substantiates my point that the brochure is not designed with clarity of communication in mind. How did this supposedly official brochure get released in this ambiguous form? Suggests a hurried launch. My interpretation was - no additional charge for additional km.

I had the exact same thought, MG would have disrupted the market by introducing Baas and with some flexibility on the pricing for both the product and the per km price

This would have become the Maruti 800 moment for EVs.

Completely agree. This table looks as though they are presenting some self drive rental plans and not to an owner

Apart from the lack of clarity on the prices being distasteful, somehow I find the front portion to be gaudy compared to the international version. The "special stickers" around the headlights somehow reminds me of the bandanas of teenage ninja turtles. Goes to show that the MG India team also felt the design wasn't attractive & hence the cheap sticker job. They have managed to make the international version more attractive now.. :)

By the way, did MG clearly give the details on the battery chemistry? is it LFP?

Interesting highlights from the BAAS program. This might be a new monetization strategy for EV businesses in India.

However, given our mindset of owning things rather than renting or using a subscription model, this might take some time to pick up specifically when it comes to cars.

We should remember the car subscription model has very less takers in India till now.

As sweet as it sounds, that wont happen with such a low price of 2.99 lakh Rupees. Other EV manufacturers would be knocking CCI's doors then and it would openly expose Chinese government's investments in SAIC MG as the company manages to stay afloat despite losses :)

Moreover, the size of a car does not determine it's base selling price. To explain it in other way: Say, If a small car costs about 1 lakh rupees to only manufacture it (Steel sheets, glass, other materials and processes etc), a big car using the exact same materials and processes would not cost 4-5 lakh Rupees more to manufacture it in the same factory. That is why profit margins are much higher on bigger and upper segment vehicles. If they decide to launch Comet at 3 Lakh Rupees + BaaS, then the Windsor should be priced considerably lower than 10 Lakh + BaaS. It will disrupt everything.

Coming back to the Windsor.
Is it basically one of the following options for buyers?

If you have 10 lakh Rupees in your pocket:
- Get the car for 10 Lakh Rupees, get battery on loan and pay 9% interest (Bajaj Finserv) on battery cost (which is not revealed)

If you don't have 10 lakh Rupees in your pocket but have only 4 lakh:
- Down payment of 4L. Get the car on loan of 6 lakh at usual 8 to 12% interest rates, then get the battery on loan and pay 9% interest on battery cost

If you have 15 lakh rupees in your pocket.
- Get the car for 10 Lakh Rupees, still get the battery on loan and pay 9% interest even when you could afford to buy the battery pack (of cost that MG smartly keeps hidden).

I walked into a MG showroom yesterday. The biggest takeaway on Windsor is, financing of the car is also from the 4 financial institutions mentioned, namely BajajFin, HeroFin, Vidyut and ecofy.

• Financial details or terms have been revealed and would become clear before October 3. Whatever sketchy details is already available in the forum. The sales guy did not have an answer how the math would work if I clock > 1500 km.
• Other walk-in customers are also looking to fill in the commercial gaps. So the situation at the showroom isn't much different from the 16 pages of discussion here post-launch.
• I did tell him that, the JSW-MG disruptive launch backfired and their convoluted launch took the focus away from the car (which looks competent) to the commercials.

I think the only option is to wait till Oct 3rd and then decide, based on the clarity from the company. Here is a list of things unknown (so far)

Ownership
- Can the car be purchased outright along with battery (Yes/ No) and at what prices?
- Can block financing of car/ battery be done by our own choice of bank/ NBFC (yes/no) other than the list by MG
- If the battery is on rental, will it show as "hyptheticated" in the RC book? If so? Till when?
- If car and battery are financed from different vendors, what would the name show on RC book?
- Why should the battery financier have a right to take over (and maybe damage) the entire car just because the battery payment is overdue?


Battery "rental"

- When will MG disclose the battery "price" being financed under "rental" payment
- Will the battery be finances by (all intent and purposes) as a "personal loan"?
- Will personal credit score influence the "rent amount"?
- if the rent amount remains the same regardless of credit score, logically the "tenure" will increase. In that case one will probably keep paying the "rental" till the dying day
- Insurance is typically the owner's liability since the payout happens to the owner only in case of an eventuality. If I dont own the battery, why should I pay for insurance.
- If the 3.5 Rupees do not cover insurance, will that be extra? How much extra?
- In case of premature foreclosure (on sale, let's say), what T&C will be used to determine residual price of the battery? what about other terms and conditions ?
- In case of damage/ accident, what will be the modus operandi for claims for the battery?


As I said, I strongly feel some entitled whizkid came out with this "disruptive" scheme. The more details come out, the more questions customers ask, the economics will become clear. Economic reality is a harsh master. Once you add interest "vyaaj" and service provier/ intermediaery's profits to any financing/ ownership scheme (along with credit risk, interest rate risk, force majeure etc), its not gonna be cheap ;_It simply can't be!!