[carboy]

Originally Posted by blackasta

The poor soul had been refusing food since last night, and passed away a few hours back (late evening) in our garage.

Sorry about that :-(

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by blackasta

The poor soul ... ... ... passed away a few hours back

So sad. Very sorry to hear it.

[Ricci]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

IMO neutering is the most common method of sterilizing; so what exactly is your point when you say sterilizing is a better option than neutering?

Seems to be a mute point argument, no?

I think you meant 'moot' point , eh, excuse my playing grammar Nazi


In context of veterinarians, neutering/spaying is the most common answer to pet sterilization.

Sterile per se means incapable of producing offspring, it doesn't specifically mean absence of gonads. Sterility can occur by natural (hormonal imbalance, diseases causing malfunctions such as mumps can cause sterility , genetic conditions like XXY syndrome), or artificial causes such as exposure to some chemicals and radiation (chemotherapy comes to mind).

Laden with false empathy and understanding that humans are, we have made neutering of animals (and 'other' humans) seem like it was nothing evil. I don't claim to be on any moral high horse but I do very clearly remember one principle of morality/ethics - it's not about whether the victim/subject knows or understands he's been done wrong, it's whether you (the actor) knows what you're doing is wrong. What most people want aren't pets with a mind and lives of their own (which means there will be times you the owner, will be without their being at you service), but soft toys that interact with them, without any wishes or of their own or at least those that owners don't like.

Imagine for a moment, we humans found ourselves at the receiving end of this same treatment, where we're not the dominant species anymore. Would be like it? Surely not. We justify to ourselves that animals are lesser beings than humans because they're self-awareness is orders lower than our own. A neutered dog doesn't hate his owner because he doesn't understand what was done to him, despite what medical reasons vets may proffer as 'good for the dog' , are more to do with convenient for the owner (and the breeders who make money selling pups!) and the vet rarely will mention the downside of neutering.

The same argument has been used to remove the gonads of humans - namely those with mental retardation, justifying that they're easier to control without the sex hormones, they shouldn't and they won't be reproducing anyway so why fuss over such involuntary simple surgeries ; but if I remember right, human rights orgs fought against these as inhuman treatment - so what if the patient, human in these cases, didn't understand what was being done to them.

You may or may not agree that neutering your pets is bad, but then your pets didn't ask to be adopted either. Cats especially do completely find without humans adopting them. Fighting other cats/dogs over territory and females, that's nature and I think we best leave them to resolve their disputes themselves, much the same argument as not caging birds. If I don't want cat marking its territory inside my house, I don't adopt one. I can't say I have the abilities of a cat whisperer, but I surmise a cat might prefer 4 years of living wild and free, rather than 12 years as a pampered, but neutered slave. YMMV.

Oops, this became longer than I thought it would.

[dre@ms]

Does the home food funda works for imported/foreign breeds too or they have to be fed RC?

[akshay380]

Originally Posted by dre@ms

Does the home food funda works for imported/foreign breeds too or they have to be fed RC?

They do just fine on home cooked food. Go back few pages to find aroys(?) post about the same.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Ricci

I think you meant 'moot' point , eh, excuse my playing grammar Nazi

Autocorrect at work, maybe!

your pets didn't ask to be adopted either.

Absolutely, mine did.

Every single cat that I have had on the past thirteen years has arrived of its own accord, been brought to the house by another cat, or, in one case, arrived complete with family.

That does not make me an adopter: it makes me a sucker! But there are limits to my hospitality.

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by Ricci

Oops, this became longer than I thought it would.

your pets didn't ask to be adopted either - yes they did. The first matriarch of the cat family in our house came in, gave birth, and stayed on.

a cat might prefer 4 years of living wild and free, rather than 12 years as a pampered, but neutered slave - exactly what sort of slavery do you see cats performing ?

So your moral bell rings hard when a cat is neutered/spayed for keeping it healthy & disease free for a long life, but stays silent as a stone when you see a lone kitten / injured cat by the roadside & you don't pick them up , because hey, they didn't ask to be adopted right !

[carboy]

Originally Posted by dre@ms

Does the home food funda works for imported/foreign breeds too or they have to be fed RC?

Cat or Dog?

Originally Posted by blackasta

your pets didn't ask to be adopted either - yes they did. The first matriarch of the cat family in our house came in, gave birth, and stayed on.

Doesn't mean that it gave consent to be castrated.

Originally Posted by blackasta

So your moral bell rings hard when a cat is neutered/spayed for keeping it healthy & disease free for a long life,

Would you castrate yourself or your child pre-emptively if it meant that a couple of diseases could be avoided in the long run?

Originally Posted by blackasta

but stays silent as a stone when you see a lone kitten / injured cat by the roadside & you don't pick them up , because hey, they didn't ask to be adopted right !

They didn't ask to be neutered/spayed is the point.

[Red Liner]

Lets be clear that animals for the most part dont really have a "want" to procreate, because they do not have a sense of self. They procreate based on instinct. It is what they are meant to do, and is codified in their dna.

Humans on the other hand procreate for social needs more than instinct. Our early ancestors had a far smaller pre frontal cortex and a larger animal brain at the back, hence instinct pushed them more than common sense. That is why today we have the ability to control and subjugate our sexual needs... Sometimes atleast.

I believe, my cat is far far happier without the requirement to want to have a litter. Ofcourse, we will never know the 100% truth, this is my selfish inference only. However, it is a fact that animals do not have an ego, and without an ego every single action is instinct based only, as it is not driven by a sense of personal preservation (applies for humans).

Now, humans are meddling with what nature created for our own selfish reasons. If everything was left as is, and we chose to live within the boundaries of what nature created, then we will have no problems at all.

Everything will right itself only when we cease to exist as the dominant species.

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by carboy

Cat or Dog?

Doesn't mean that it gave consent to be castrated.

Would you castrate yourself or your child pre-emptively if it meant that a couple of diseases could be avoided in the long run?

They didn't ask to be neutered/spayed is the point.

Doesn't mean that it gave consent to be castrated. - Hysterectomy is not castration, although I doubt if anyone ever has reversed the same in a cat. So hysterectomy is de facto equal to ovariohysterectomy where they remove the ovaries/fallopian tube/uterus too.

Would you castrate yourself or your child pre-emptively if it meant that a couple of diseases could be avoided in the long run? - ovary removal operations for 'human' females for saving the person, especially for cancer prevention & quite a few other life threatening diseases are quite common. Same for testicular cancer in males. The reason why it is not done preemptively for humans is quite clear, but since you asked , let me re iterate.
Humans do not breed at the same rate as cats / dogs (read - do not have 6-12 babies per year), can use contraceptives, and can express discomfort/signs of illness when there's a problem. All of which pets like cats/dogs cannot. Thus the preemption for them, versus waiting till the last possible safe minute for humans.

They didn't ask to be neutered/spayed is the point - Again, there are millions of cats/dogs available with shelters/ roaming as feral who can get a home if you neuter / spay your pet. Or are you ready to shelter an exponentially growing cat/dog family at your home? According to very conservative estimates, one female cat can grow to a family of 100+ in as little as 7 years. Wishing you luck with your milk n catfood purchases. Or shall your moral bell too go silent then and they shall be left to fend for themselves in the concrete jungle?

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Humans on the other hand procreate for social needs more than instinct.

Are you saying humans don't have sexual urges but procreate for social needs only?

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I believe, my cat is far far happier without the requirement to want to have a litter. Ofcourse, we will never know the 100% truth, this is my selfish inference only.

Yes.

Originally Posted by blackasta

Doesn't mean that it gave consent to be castrated. - Hysterectomy is not castration,

Neutering is castration.

Originally Posted by blackasta

Humans do not breed at the same rate as cats / dogs (read - do not have 6-12 babies per year), can use contraceptives, and can express discomfort/signs of illness when there's a problem. All of which pets like cats/dogs cannot.

But sterilising males will take care of that, right? Why do you humans sterilise male pets if not for their own selfish reasons?

Originally Posted by blackasta

Again, there are millions of cats/dogs available with shelters/ roaming as feral who can get a home if you neuter / spay your pet. Or are you ready to shelter an exponentially growing cat/dog family at your home? According to very conservative estimates, one female cat can grow to a family of 100+ in as little as 7 years. Wishing you luck with your milk n catfood purchases. Or shall your moral bell too go silent then and they shall be left to fend for themselves in the concrete jungle?

Again sterilising takes care of this. But we still neuter instead for our own selfish reasons.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by carboy

Are you saying humans don't have sexual urges but procreate for social needs only?

Humans have sexual urges, but we have ways to manage them that animals dont. Contraceptives, brahmacharya, and being born gay. The number 1 fallout of sexual urge is an uncontrollable rise in species population. If animals could have sex without procreation, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Lets be clear that animals for the most part dont really have a "want" to procreate, because they do not have a sense of self. They procreate based on instinct. It is what they are meant to do, and is codified in their dna. ... ... ...

Well, yes, no and yes. Animals, particularly of the domestic sort, I would say, do have a sense of self, but that is tangential, and overall I agree with you.

Animals, just like us animals, have sex because they have and urge and enjoy it. Whether this is random feature of the universe or nature ensuring that species continue, I don't know, but, one way or another, young often result. Human society has various pressures towards this too. Cats don't actually care if their kittens have grandchildren; humans tend to.

In my experience, the reluctance to having a male cat castrated is the problem, not the other way around. Projection of one's own feelings! The Ouch thought.

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by Aroy

As far as I know, you should never give dry pet food, but use plenty of water with the feed. The reason is that when the dog drinks water after the dry food, the dry bits soak water and expand. This may result in the intestine damage as the intestines can twist/straighten while the dry bits absorb water.
https://www.caninejournal.com/canine-bloat/
https://www.dogfoodinsider.com/preve...-healthy-diet/

I agree entirely - the degree of dehydration in the pellets, the concentration of high protein (presumably!) and their oiliness makes it absolutely necessary that they should be well soaked in water, before adding to the bowl with the rest of their food.

In fact, with our first boxer - Darth, he is here somewhere in the thread! - back in the mid-nineties, Pedigree had recently been introduced in the market. And when we tried to introduce the pellets in his homemade diet, Darth backed away and wouldn't eat. He retained that aversion all his life.

Even after Daisy (our next) joined the menagerie as a 5 week-old pup & took to the pellets happily, Darth, with his mulish nature, refused to budge, even though he was devoted to & besotted with Daisy!

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Humans have sexual urges, but we have ways to manage them that animals dont. Contraceptives, brahmacharya, and being born gay.

Homosexuality exists in Animals also.

Also there exists contraceptives for cats also - magestrol acetate - for female cats - but it's not popular because spaying is easier for humans. It's not a great contraceptive - it stops their heat, not just prevents pregnancies - but it does exist.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

The number 1 fallout of sexual urge is an uncontrollable rise in species population. If animals could have sex without procreation, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

And that can be controlled by sterilising without neutering - i.e. vasectomies instead of neutering & ovariectomy instead of ovariohysterectomy.