[whencut86]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Established players? People seemingly forget the audio chops of Apple because it does not take the centerstage but their audio engineering is world class. Airpods were the first true wireless earphones, everyone else copied and came up with their own versions but many still dont have the rock solid connectivity or the same microphone performance and ease of use of the originals launched 4 years back.

Sir, I agree that Apple is good with their audio products but claiming that their sound quality is world class is taking it too far. No offence! They are at best good to great but never world class. Also before AirPods were released, many other audio equipment brands had their wireless earphones, other wireless in-ear products and sports earphone products already in the market. So technically, Apple was not the first to bring in such a product in the world market. So as Apple claimed that this is the world's first iPhone with dual sim for the iphone 11 or xs series, they can claim that airpods are the world's first wireless earphone for the iProduct lineup. Nothing more, nothing less.

Beats had decent to good audio equipments but never the best in class ones. If Apple actually acquired Beats purely to boost their personal audio equipment product portfolio, then they would still fall short of the industry best.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Apple is a world class audio equipment company and dont forget they also own Beats which have only improved since they were bought over by Apple. The other so called established players are catching up.

If you search in Tech forums and in Audio forums for the top headphones or earphones for the past few years, Apple has never been on top. Apple has been in the top 10. So if you look at it it has been Apple who is playing catch up with other brands.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I am not sure if Airpods Pro are any more expensive than their Sony counterparts so the premium argument does not stand ground and they beat them hollow when it comes to overall usability and even sound quality. Their quality of life improvement is way beyond Sony though which do not even have the same feature set.

The Airpods Pro are 5-10K expensive compared to Sony and other brands. Music quality wise, there are a lot many earbuds which are better than AirPods Pro. Sony WF-1000XM3, Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2, Klipsch, Shure, Grado ones to name a few. And yes they are much cheaper and better sounding.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Also I wonder where is your inference that Sony or Bose will sound better coming from without actually hearing them? I would place my bet that they will beat the Sony's or the Bose. Whether they are worth their price is a different discussion.

When it comes to wireless headphones today, the Sony WH-1000XM4 and Sony WH-1000XM3 are still the top in every forum or search. Class leading sound quality, best noise cancellation currently and the best comfort among over-ear headphones and can vouch for this from personal experience as well. The Sennheiser Momentum 3 Wireless, Bose 700, Grado and AKG Y50 ones are not too far away either compared to Sony. I own more than a couple of dozen personal audio equipment with a mix of wired headphones, wireless headphones, both wired and wireless earphones/earbuds, open back and closed back headphones, hi-res/hi-fidelity ones and DAC amplifiers as well across different brands.

AirPods Max feature a 40-mm Apple-designed dynamic driver. The sounstage may not be better if you compare this to some of the 50mm or 70mm driver driven Hi-Res and Hi-Fidelity headphones in the market today. If I have to put that much money on a pair of headphones it will be on Bowers & Wilkins P7/P9/PX7/PX5 or the Focal Stella. These are one of the industry best and I find it hard to believe that Apple will beat these after having listened to a lot of different audio on Airpods pro or Apple's wired earphones.

When it comes to wired headphones for audio use from phones, the Beyerdynamic, Grado, Sennheiser, Shure, AKG and Klipsch ones beat everyone else with their variety of choices for driver sizes, multiple ohm headphone options, different audio jack support and many other features. In particular, the Beyerdynamic Open back & Closed back headphones are one of the best in the market and that too at 1/3 or 1/4 of price of Airpods Pro Max.

My current setup of wired BeyerDynamic DT 770 Pro 250 Ohm with the in-built Quad-DAC on my LG phone and the wireless Sony WH1000-XM3 will run circles around any headphone setup in the Apple lineup and I hope this stays the same else there would be a further dent in my pocket with the addition of the Airpods Pro Max to my collection. :-)

I will wait for the Airpods Pro Max to see if it is atleast anywhere close to these industry best ones let alone beating them. From an audiophile point of view, I find it tough to believe that Apple will beat the rest when it comes to audio quality when it has nowhere been near the best so far. I will reserve my judgement on this post a few hours of listening to music on the Airpods Pro Max.

[deathwalkr]

People also made fun when Apple came out with the Pods...Apple is still laughing all the way to the bank...

Will be the same with this as well. They have established a brand which just begets class and style and you want to own one.

And people saying Apple, Beats and Bose are audiophile equipment...sigh.

But we will get to see some good memes though

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by GrammarNazi

AirPods launched just in 2016 and went on to make more money in 2019 than Twitter, Snapchat and Shopify...COMBINED.

Sad that Indians haven't owned such brands and the world's wealthiest countries get wealthier by innovating tech.

Yes, very sad. Earphones are so much easier to manufacture (I'm talking wired) than silicon chips and require so little actual material. They do require a lot of brainpower - R&D, marketing, engineering, etc., etc., but nothing very high tech. Same with speakers.

[Rachit.K.Dogra]

My humble opinion on this subject:
I have recently bitten the bug of audiophile headphones and as many of us spent hours on youtube on drooling stuff. Have not bought anything yet, mostly because I am not able to justify them for my use as I don't see this hobby fitting in my schedule yet. Many high end audiophile headphones are in this price bracket for many years. Many are even higher. Its just they are not known much because it is considered a niche thing.

If a commercial audio grade company can charge this much for a headphone, it can only be Apple, at least to begin with. I am quite confident these will sound at par for the price being charged. Most audiophile gear is not particularly very practical or useable. They are made for dedicated listening sessions. These can actually bridge that gap.

One negative that I see from this is that pretty soon Sony and Bose will have competitors in this price range. Today you can buy a 30K something headphone and be sure that it is the top of tree at least for commercial audio equipment. Now that bar moves to 60K.

Apple creates segments or set bars for pricing and most companies follow and then a year later, that bar becomes the standard. Most high end phones today start at $800 or more on launch. When iPhone first touched these price points everybody laughed.

By the way, if these sound good, these might be the high end head phones that I might end up buying some time later.


Rachit

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by whencut86

Sir, I agree that Apple is good with their audio products but claiming that their sound quality is world class is taking it too far. No offence! They are at best good to great but never world class. Also before AirPods were released, many other audio equipment brands had their wireless earphones, other wireless in-ear products and sports earphone products already in the market.

Okay name one true wireless earbuds that worked even half as well as Airpods before they were launched in 2016. Not bluetooth earphones connected to each other via a wire. A true wireless design with no wires at all.

Originally Posted by whencut86

So technically, Apple was not the first to bring in such a product in the world market. So as Apple claimed that this is the world's first iPhone with dual sim for the iphone 11 or xs series, they can claim that airpods are the world's first wireless earphone for the iProduct lineup. Nothing more, nothing less.

So it would be easy for you to find out the press release where Apple made that claim? Can you please copy paste it here because I cant find it.

Originally Posted by whencut86

Beats had decent to good audio equipments but never the best in class ones. If Apple actually acquired Beats purely to boost their personal audio equipment product portfolio, then they would still fall short of the industry best.

When did I say Beats were best in class? They were pretty average before Apple's acquisition and more than okay afterwards.

Originally Posted by whencut86

If you search in Tech forums and in Audio forums for the top headphones or earphones for the past few years, Apple has never been on top. Apple has been in the top 10. So if you look at it it has been Apple who is playing catch up with other brands.

And where did Apple say that it was Airpods/Airpods Pro were audiophile grade earphones? Its like saying Camry isnt as good as the BMW M3 in the automobile forums. Its a better more reliable taxi than BMW if that is what you are comparing. They arent competing in the same category. However, you could compare the Airpods Pro for example with the Sony and the just launched Bose true wireless noise cancelling earphones

Airpods Pro --> ttps://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/apple/airpods-pro-truly-wireless

Sony TWS --> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/re...truly-wireless

Bose TWS --> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/re...truly-wireless

And these are just technical tests and do not include quality of life improvements like how easy it is to pair Airpods or that they work on every device which are on same Apple ID automatically or that their transparency mode is the best by far or that they are the smallest in their class with the smallest charging case or that they have the best microphone performance.

Originally Posted by whencut86

The Airpods Pro are 5-10K expensive compared to Sony and other brands. Music quality wise, there are a lot many earbuds which are better than AirPods Pro. Sony WF-1000XM3, Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 2, Klipsch, Shure, Grado ones to name a few. And yes they are much cheaper and better sounding.

Please define better. Do they have better noise cancellation? Do they have better sound? Refer to the link above - objectively measured. They are also much larger in size, case and the earbuds both and have none of the quality of life improvements that I outlined above including rock solid bluetooth connectivity.

Forget audio forums for a moment because sound preference is as much technical as it is subjective. Do you have personal experience with any or all of the products that you mentioned? Have you used Sony's or the Airpods for a considerable time to form an opinion? Before you ask, I have.

Originally Posted by whencut86

When it comes to wireless headphones today, the Sony WH-1000XM4 and Sony WH-1000XM3 are still the top in every forum or search. Class leading sound quality, best noise cancellation currently and the best comfort among over-ear headphones and can vouch for this from personal experience as well.

And they are headphones not earbuds. There hasn't been any Apple branded headphones yet. So i am not sure what your point is? Are you saying no one can build a better headphone than Sony?

Originally Posted by whencut86

The Sennheiser Momentum 3 Wireless, Bose 700, Grado and AKG Y50 ones are not too far away either compared to Sony. I own more than a couple of dozen personal audio equipment with a mix of wired headphones, wireless headphones, both wired and wireless earphones/earbuds, open back and closed back headphones, hi-res/hi-fidelity ones and DAC amplifiers as well across different brands.

Consumer electronics market is completely different to what audiophile's are looking for. Heck, if you are an audiophile you shouldnt even be looking at bluetooth headphones. You should be listening to high quality AAC files via a dedicated audio player via an analogue wired connection on an IEM.

Originally Posted by whencut86

AirPods Max feature a 40-mm Apple-designed dynamic driver. The sounstage may not be better if you compare this to some of the 50mm or 70mm driver driven Hi-Res and Hi-Fidelity headphones in the market today. If I have to put that much money on a pair of headphones it will be on Bowers & Wilkins P7/P9/PX7/PX5 or the Focal Stella. These are one of the industry best and I find it hard to believe that Apple will beat these after having listened to a lot of different audio on Airpods pro or Apple's wired earphones.

Its all speculative unless you have already heard and compared these. If not, its just a personal opinion based on....? Have you heard HomePod? Its got a 4inch driver - now name me a speaker with a 4inch driver that sounds better than HomePod and I will take you seriously. Heard the sound coming out of iMac? Again name me an all-in-one computer which even has comparable sound. Take MacBook Pro - again name one laptop which has the same sound from a comparable thin and light chassis or even Apple Watch speaker for that matter. Tell me that is not audio engineering and that it is all a happy accident.

A reference monitor would sound better ofcourse but its not the same market. Apple isnt even marketing sound on these products. You just find it out.

Originally Posted by whencut86

When it comes to wired headphones for audio use from phones, the Beyerdynamic, Grado, Sennheiser, Shure, AKG and Klipsch ones beat everyone else with their variety of choices for driver sizes, multiple ohm headphone options, different audio jack support and many other features. In particular, the Beyerdynamic Open back & Closed back headphones are one of the best in the market and that too at 1/3 or 1/4 of price of Airpods Pro Max.

My current setup of wired BeyerDynamic DT 770 Pro 250 Ohm with the in-built Quad-DAC on my LG phone and the wireless Sony WH1000-XM3 will run circles around any headphone setup in the Apple lineup and I hope this stays the same else there would be a further dent in my pocket with the addition of the Airpods Pro Max to my collection. :-)

I will wait for the Airpods Pro Max to see if it is atleast anywhere close to these industry best ones let alone beating them. From an audiophile point of view, I find it tough to believe that Apple will beat the rest when it comes to audio quality when it has nowhere been near the best so far. I will reserve my judgement on this post a few hours of listening to music on the Airpods Pro Max.

A lot of personal opinions. Give me charts, graphs and numbers else it is all subjective and I get that. Sound is more subjective than it is about objective measurements.

[Cessna182]

^ There are no reviews out yet. Let's wait till reviews are out before turning ourselves into voluntary product ambassadors.

I have not tried the airpods pro but I did try the Beats headphones earlier that cost as much as a Bose QC and they were pitiable in terms of sound quality. There was no competition.

Also, with regards to noise cancellation, sony and Bose have taken the game so far that you actually have to reduce the noise cancellation so that you don't get disconcerted after removing the headphones. It may not be possible to cancel more noise .

Also, most of the useful the features Apple is claiming to be a pioneer with are present in QC 35++ and WH1000 models. You can touch the headphone to go into ambient mode. You also get a foldable headphone with a full case.

Anyway, let's see how apple fans justify the price in India this time after the reviews come out.

[Turbanator]

And in most markets this is now sold out until February/ March including India. Maybe they had few pieces to begin with.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Cessna182

Also, most of the useful the features Apple is claiming to be a pioneer with are present in QC 35++ and WH1000 models. You can touch the headphone to go into ambient mode. You also get a foldable headphone with a full case.

Incorrect. I used Bose QC35 II for 2 years and it does not have a transparency mode. Being able to switch off noise reduction so that you can listen to someone speaking to you is not transparency mode. Transparency mode actually amplifies the outside noises. WH100XM3 has one but its not even half as good as Apple's. I dont think Apple's pioneer at doing everything, they are though a pioneer at doing things well. Infact the transparency mode on Airpods Pro is so well implemented that it doesnt sound like the sounds are being amplified. Go ahead and try yourself.

Agree about the pricing though. Their pricing is absurd in India. Sony's XM4's can be had here for $350-400 here most days on discounts and Airpods Max are $899 and wont be discounted. More than twice the cost of the latest XM4's is a hard pill to swallow. If they are good though, I will go ahead and buy them.

[ManneAtWheelz]

Originally Posted by Cessna182

Also, I am surprised that Apple didn't provide a full cover for this device.

Sony WH1000 and Bose 700/QC35 series headphones are cheaper and will most likely sound better.

Forget about full cover, Apple discontinued providing a phone charger along with a new phone. What a pity!!

Originally Posted by Sebring

From being a Bose lifer, I moved to Sony 1000 XM4 (at launch), and find them better in comfort and quality. I'm using Beats Solo3 occasionally, and have reason to believe Apple has done a great job on these headphones. Waiting to audition these, but may not pick it up anytime soon. Regarding pricing, when was Apple selling anything on the cheap? Initially we crib, then we experience, later we buy!

I use SoundLink around-ear wireless headphones II and they are perfect for both taking the calls to listening the music. Now I don't have to even look at these dirt cheap Apple Air Pods Max

[turbowhistle]

Wow, makes my QC 35 II look totally value for money now. I can hold onto them for few more years. I agree Apple came out with revolutionary AirPods in 2016 and we duly rewarded them for the same but this is not the same for sure. It has been under wraps for a while now and will not open a new segment. There are plenty of other players which are already established and Apple must be counting on the fanboys to lap these up. I am one of them but can’t convince myself to get these over QC35II or even Sony XM4.

PS. What a stupid case though!!

[v1p3r]

I'm literally here for the fanboy comments. <munches on popcorn>

I have the Airpods Pro. I got them very cheap (under 14k INR) and they are good - better than the Galaxy Live Buds and more comfortable than the Sonys. Their NC software has been downgraded from when I bought them, so the NC is not as good as it was. I use them with an Android, because I'm a poor person by Apple standards.

This is ridiculously priced. I fully expect to see it on everyone's ears in NYC/LON/Silicon Valley/SoBo.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

I have the Airpods Pro. I got them very cheap (under 14k INR) and they are good - better than the Galaxy Live Buds and more comfortable than the Sonys. Their NC software has been downgraded from when I bought them, so the NC is not as good as it was. I use them with an Android, because I'm a poor person by Apple standards.

Apple has a service program for exactly the same issue that you describe. Get them replaced. I did too and the difference is massive.
https://support.apple.com/en-au/airp...m-sound-issues

P.S. You are missing out on all the quality of life improvement that comes with using them with an iPhone

[aashishnb]

Originally Posted by gusfring

And, I find the name weird too, like AirPods Max?

It is called Max, because It makes The Maximum Money from an Apple Audio product ever

Remember this ad?

[vb-saan]

Overpriced yes, but this will sell well. Works perfectly for those in the Apple ecosystem, and there are too many of them (including me)

I have been on iPhone/iPad/MacBook for many years but had resisted giving into Apple accessories. But a couple of months back decided to get an Apple Watch, and that followed by an Airpods Pro. And now its like why I resisted these for so long – it is that convenient! The seamless integration between the products is just awesome.

Originally Posted by GTO

But then, I guess in some ways Apple is the 'Mercedes' of the electronics world?

It is somewhat like that –an entry level Mercedes can cost more than a flagship Hyundai

[clementw]

Think the memes about selling a kidney to buy Apple products will start again if not already. These are way out of reach for me.