Team-BHP (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)

-   Gadgets, Computers & Software (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadgets-computers-software/)

-   -   The Home Appliance thread (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadgets-computers-software/23174-home-appliance-thread-613.html)

From my 10 years experience of searching a solution for hardwater:
1. Not all hardwater has iron contamination which has cheaper solution using magnetic filter; some of them have high calcium content like we do
2. RO water goes awful taste in 48 hours, so has to be consumed within that. RO consists of high pressure motor & membrane filter that filters out the dissolved solvents from water. If not the motor, the membrane is way too expensive for usage beyond drinking
3. One of the solution is to have an RO plant, which needs extreme maintenance, in form of replacing NACL (yes salt) depending on the hardness of water + amount of water used everyday (e.g. ~600 liters consumed everyday translates to replacing salt once every month)
4. Next viable option being a beautiful automatic water softener product from 3M, which also requires salt to be replaced every now & then. They provide end to end solution including 2 filters that costs like 20K or so + pipes, all put together costs over 1 Lakh which requires the 2 main filters to be replaced every year along with membrane that costs like 20-30K (or more not sure) as well

Whew!! My neighbor did a very simple solution - Buy a tanker full of water that lasts 10-12 days & costs as low as Rs 1800 X 3 a month!!

We're doing even simpler solution - replace the taps, closet, faucet every 5-6 years, costs even less

What kind of water ? Does the tanker get water from a borewell

Mostly from outskirts borewell or from Metro water sometimes; basically the supplied water has less TDS; RO or not, but will still require water purifier for drinking.

I am planning to get a dishwasher.

Kindly please help me out with the below queries.

1. Faber is a lot cheaper than other brands like Bosch, LG etc. Why is it that cheaper?
Is it a good brand (for Dishwashers)?

2. Among LG, IFB & Bosch, which is better?

How is spending 65000 a year on tanker water cheap?

Bosch, LG, etc have been in the market for a long and are time-tested, while the likes of Faber are post-pandemic entrants. Most likely, these are just Chinese white labeled goods, with the brand names stuck on them. Hence the lower cost.

As a Bosch DW user for the past 7 years, I would recommend Bosch. Only once did I face any issue, and that was earlier this year. The first technician who came for the repair did a bad job, but after some escalation, the issue was fixed properly. I heard the first technician absconded after pulling a fast one on many customers. So I will consider it a one-off issue.

3 units of IFB DW's in the extended family in the past year.

Agree on the point by Jaguar on re-branded machines. Even their gas stoves are not upto the mark now.

Quality wise it would be Bosch, then IFB & then LG.

I bought a set from Victorinox and they have been extremely useful in all areas. Costly, but worth it completely. Still going strong after 4 years of all kitchen chopping.

NOTE: These knives are EXTREMELY sharp and caution should be taken while using them.

The LGs are good but are quite expensive, though they are equipped with extra convenience features like wireless connectivity, touch controls, easy-adjust racks and their patented TrueSteam nozzles (I'm not sure how effective they are). One case I would recommend an LG is for seamless aesthetic integration if you plan to have the worktop removed and install it under the counter in a modular kitchen, next to a sink for example. The Boschs just don't sit flush because of the oddly shaped control panel.

The lower-end Bosch models are simple and are equipped with everything you need but not much more. Physical buttons, no wireless connectivity and you have to take out and reinstall the top rack in case you want to adjust its height, for starters. But they're generally pretty no-nonsense machines. We purchased one in early 2017, SMS60L12IN to be precise, and it's been going strong with nearly no problems till now (except when the lower rack wheels accidentally snapped off). The ones with the digital display aren't exactly austere either, they're decently equipped, but the ones without look like a pain to use (like this one, where diagnosing error codes is a pain). One thing to note is that they're Turkish-made, 'CBUs', if you will, so look for reviews for your local BSH service centre. Ours has been pretty good with other appliances, but it's too early to say for the dishwasher.

I would not recommend the newer IFBs. Don't get me wrong, I do admire the brand for its innovative ideas in washing machines, and their abuse-friendly (though likely unoriginal) dryers (ours will be 18 soon). Maybe I'm biased by the fact that their washing machines and dryers are made right here in Goa.

We had one of the older Arcelik-rebadged IFBs, the Neptune, and it was nothing short of splendid. I was barely 1 when we bought it (we still preserved the manual, which is how I know) and 12 when we let it go, and that should speak volumes.

But their dishwashers went downhill right when they had that nasty divorce with Arçelik (the company who manufactures Beko - among the better dishwashers on the European market) and started looking for new partners whose products to rebadge and sell in India.

But when they did, they chose Vestel, a company generally notorious for poor reliability. And these rebadged IFB dishwashers remain true to Vestel's reputation from what I've been able to hear both online and from a close one who scrapped a Neptune DX for consistent control board failures the technician blamed on 'rats' and 'fluctuating voltage'.

Maybe they're not as bad as I think, but I don't have a good opinion of the newer IFB dishwashers. One area where they do have a distinct advantage in India is their more flexible top rack geometry which makes it easier to work with larger-mouthed bowls. The Boschs seem geared more towards fitting glasses, and it's a pain to fit bowls that have a mouth anything wider than a glass without flexing the tines. Our Bosch also has a flaw in the foldable rear bottom rack tines where you can only fold all of them and not a 50-50 split, making it less modular to load saucepans and kadhais if there are extra plates, but I can confirm that the newer models have fixed this.

I don't know who makes the dishwashers that Faber sells in India. From what I can figure out, they don't seem to sell any dishwashers in Europe which is mysterious. I'll update you on this if I find out more.

The water pressures they recommend in the installation instructions are generally just guidelines.

When the washing machine throws up an error for low water supply (I believe the error code is E:17 for BSH Group appliances with the 7-segment display) that's usually because of low flow rate and not low pressure. You should get the error if the fill rate is less than 8L/min for modern BSH front-load washing machines but I don't know if they've made it more tolerant for India.

I don't believe the fill valves have sensors for pressure (technical experts, please feel free to correct me) but the error is usually thrown up based on pressostat readings for the fill rate of water in the tub.

In conclusion, no, I don't think using a hose of smaller diameter would solve your problem even if there was a mechanism employed to measure pressure at the intake solenoid.

• If the pressure is measured when water isn't flowing, I don't think a smaller diameter would make any difference.
• Even if the pressure is measured when the water is flowing, I believe increasing the velocity of the water (by decreasing the diameter of the fill hose) will reduce its static pressure, but I'm a newbie at even very fundamental fluid dynamics so please excuse that last statement if it's wrong.

In any case I would never recommend modifying an automatic washing machine's fill hose in any way. Good ones are normally made with at least polyester mesh reinforcements (usually visible on the outside as a criss-cross) and can be used safely for up to five years. Any modifications or using non-proprietary hoses would be dangerous and pose a high risk of flooding.

Your best solution would be to purchase a 'pressure booster'.

In case of extreme hurry, you can artificially feed water from another source manually through a chamber of the detergent drawer that is not in use by the appliance at the time (but don't use the fabric conditioner dispenser siphon or you'll flood the drawer). You can continue this until you hear the fill solenoids click off, if you continue too far beyond that you might get an overflow error. But it's definitely not a permanent solution.

Assuming you had the original Senator (and not the DX or VX/SX etc. variants) with the electromechanical controls I do see why moving to digital controls could be a problem. On a dry day the electromechanical-control machines will indefinitely go on trying to fill until there's water (you'll hear a slight buzz from the solenoid(s)), the newer digital ones will just throw up an error.

Hi Everyone, I am looking to get a wet and dry vacuum cleaner which will be used at home and also for my cars. My home is on the ground floor so a wired connection wouldn't be a problem. And I am specifically looking for a home appliance and not a car specific vacuum cleaner. Any recommendations? I have heard good reviews about Karcher wd3 but not sure about the spares and service. In amazon I saw one from eureka Forbes priced at 7k which seems like a good deal. Do please suggest.

Budget is capped at 7k at max

Hi thanks for the response. As such the machine works just fine other than the low water pressure error on the display so continuing without any changes.

The hose currently in use is the old IFB hose which we did not replace because it's routed behind some cabinets and also because the hose provided by Siemens was too short. On noticing the error I happened to see the Siemens hose and realised that it's of narrower diameter which is when I thought of the whole water pressure/diameter scenario. I was planning to replace it with a longer original Siemens hose only which is available from the company anyways as the IFB hose is old now. Though now that you mention it low water pressure can also be used to mean low flow rate as well so let's see what effect a narrower hose has on the error light. I might try running a cycle early in the morning too when the overhead tank is full and also removing the inline 3m filter we have installed for the kitchen supply on the terrace

There are two types of knives that are sharp, long lasting and stainless

1. Professional
2. Home use

The difference is that professional knives use a different steel and manufacturing process that ensures long life and a very keen edge after thousands of cuts. They are usually made of harder steel so edge is razor sharp.

In contrast the domestic variants have different steel formulation and so is the manufacturing process, all to make them way less expensive, as the usage is at least 1/100 of that for professional. The steel is not as hard, but keeps edge as usage is low.

In my experience, all knives loose their edge sharpness over time, so you have to invest in a knife sharpener. I am using a whet stone (same as the carpenters) for last 50 years to keep my knives sharp.

Regarding the manufacturer of good knives ;that I know of; in order of cost :

. Victorinox
. Zwilig
. Japanese brands

I have Victorinox and a couple of Japanese knives bought in Japan(courtesy of my son), as well as a few Chinese knives bought abroad (2-3 USD). All are cutting well, just that the Chinese knife needs lot more sharpening while the Japanese once in a while.

If you are fine with a carbon steel knife, then get one forged from "spring steel" (leaf spring from car or truck) - most butchers use these knives. Depending on the leaf spring source, and forging process they beat the stainless steel blades hand down, but then you need to clean and dry them after every use. I have a chopper from a butcher and it is going strong after 40 years of use.

I collect knives as part of my hobby. I have knives from Victorinox (Switzerland) to Dolphin (Germany) and Indian knives. Knives are like specialist tools. You use a type of knife for a specific job.
My wife uses her chef knife for everything which makes it dull. That's why I bring out my knives only on special occasions when I cook.
The important things about knives are their width, length, quality of steel and the handles.

For cutting meat in thin slices you need a Carving knife - long, thin blades. Don't ever use them to cut through bones. For heavy duty cutting, use a Butcher's knife (meat cleaver). They are heavy and designed to cut the soft bones of poultry and some red meat.

For vegetables, you need an utility knife, Chef knife or Santoku knife. They will have a long thin blade.

You use a whetstone to sharpen the knives. For carving knives and cleaver knifes, you need a sharpening rod.
The steel they use for making a knife is a trade secret. Generally you wash them by hand and store them in felt lined specialist boxes. They last a life time if you care for them.
Lastly specialist knives are not for the novices. They can cut through your fingers just as easily as they cut through butter.

My suggestion: Try the Solimo (amazon) brand for day-to-day use. Buy Victorinox if you want to do heavy duty chopping.

I have two dishwashers - Siemens (same as Bosch) and Toshiba. For the same price, got more pcs in Toshiba. The Toshiba seems better so far- uses less rinse aid , less salt and has less sound. The advantage of Siemens was that we were getting extended warranty for a couple of thousand extra when we bought it and am not sure about Toshiba service when it comes down to it.