[frewper]

Agree to this...

Originally Posted by charanreddy

+ 1 on the ban. Its not nationalism but common sense. One doesn't eat poisonous bread even though one is hungry! The Chinese are known for their use of businesses and commerce as an instrument of state policy. There are gazillion examples of Chinese taking undue advantage, just ask the African countries and our southern neighbor who had to sign an entire port over.

They, their ethics or adherence to basic human rights or for that matter any amount of conscience cannot be assumed or relied upon. Period ! Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Chinese people, but the CCP's intentions and practices are definitely untrustworthy.

Not this...

Originally Posted by humyum

No India should not follow suit, Xiaomi as per a Jan 2020 article employs around 50 thousand people in India, where will these people go? Find these people equal jobs in similar companies with similar pay-scale in the same city that their current job is first.

https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-...4-7910881.html

Secondly what happens to the phone's, bands, Tv's and what not people have brought from Xiaomi, their service, repair etc? Will be criminal waste of people's money.

This false nationalism should stop pronto. Banning Tik Tok alone, 2000 people lost jobs in India, what happened to them? In between Corona, GOI destroyed the lives of 2000 families.

On the other hand, "Chinese firm given contract worth Rs 1,126 crore for Delhi-Meerut rail tunnel even as LAC standoff continues" News Article date, 4th Jan 2020

Link--> https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/...doff-continues

Come on mate, you cant ignore the irregularities and the cunning state policies that the Chinese carry on just in the name of providing jobs to a certain number of people.

If that was true, then should we in the name of jobs increase our dependence on fossil fuels because it creates more jobs. Isn't that how Trump got rid of the Paris Accord? Years and years worth of work and bringing together 100 countries to come to a common conclusion was a task in itself which was thrown away to create a few 10 thousand jobs?

Or should we let our rivers get more polluted so that its easier for industries to survive, so that the job is easier.

When Whirlpool and other fridge manufactures were entering India in the 90s there was a hue and cry about the Indian manufacturers loosing business and hence they should not be allowed. But all we had was better quality fridges and Indian businesses doing better products because of them. Similarly, Xiomi phones will be replaced by cheaper Samsung phone range, and the jobs will be transferred to those companies which cover the difference.

Should we ban Uber because, they take a huge cut for the convenience that they provide us, and doesn't allow the Taxi driver cannot be a bully anymore? Which the Taxi driver thinks is his birthright.

With this ban the message will be clear to China, stop playing around with Indian consumers and be forthright with your policies. Don't muck about.

All the countries that have been cheated by the Chinese govt and have their land taken away, just for the purpose of creating a military port is not fair.

The privacy of 100s of millions of Indians is more important the 50K jobs, Tik Tok influencers and giving an upper hand to the Chinese govt who doesn't like to play fair, don't you think ?

[ashish.uno]

Originally Posted by NaXal

Hi,

Just to update you, it may have been Google who deleted that app and you had given them permission to do so when you clicked I agree with Google Play Services.

Refer here - https://support.google.com/googlepla.../2812853?hl=en

Thanks

My LG V40+ still has it.

Disabling play protection and any 3rd party anti malware apps from the device will allow any APK to run.

It should but it doesn't.

[govindremesh]

For me personally, this is amusing (& welcome if govt decides to ban Xiaomi). Having worked in Telecom, I had always adviced people to stay off Xiaomi/Huawei/ZTE phones. These manufacturers have a backdoor not only on phones but on the network equipment.

While the counter argument was that "everything is made in China", I still trust that a product engineered elsewhere and made is China is still better than the one designed and made in China. The Chinese brands strategy, I guess is to lure people with cheap prices, and in return, people pay with their personal information.

Indeed , people will have to let go some features. Once such a ban is enacted, Non Chinese brands will step in and make affordable handsets. The likes of Samsung and LG are not competing in the lower segment because of the unhealthy predatory price war started by the Chinese brands.

Personally, I've always owned a Nokia (back when it was Finnish)/ Google Nexus or Pixel lineup. Now that I am in the Netherlands where Pixel is not officially available, I chose Sony Xperia 5ii over OnePlus 8T, just because it was engineered in Japan and made in Vietnam (and runs stock Android, which only a few phones do).

[rahulba]

Originally Posted by ashish.uno

Anyone remember 'Remove china apps" on google playstore? I had it installed before it was removed from the playstore.

I had forgotten about the app when one day I noticed, it wasn't there on my phone anymore.
Surprising I would say.
Anyway, I downloaded the APK and tried to install the same again on my phone, and guess what?
The phone declined to install the app.

Thats when I realised that the app was removed from my phone without my consent and there is a backdoor which can make the phone do what the controller wants. In this case refusal to install a certain app!

From that day, I gave that phone to wifey and its used only for clicking pictures. No internet banking on that phone!

The app was banned by Google as it didn't meet the policy. Since then, the company renamed the app to "List All Apps and Uninstaller".

If you didn't uninstall the app, please check the same on your phone with this name.

[v1p3r]

Here we go with the China bogeyman and bashing again.

If everyone was so thorough in their paranoia about Chinese products and backdoors, we wouldn't be using phones, laptops, or cars of any kind.

[V.Narayan]

National policies need a lot more thought and wisdom to balance the many factors intertwined with each other and cannot be left to jingoistic chest thumping and knee jerk actions of the Donald Trump kind. We may be pissed off with the Chinese over Doklam and Galwan but matters such as banning need more sagacious thought such as -- which industries of ours will be hit if China in turn bans its exports to India; direct job loss impact of banning a company; indirect job loss impact if China bans its imports from India i.e. our exports to them; loss of co-operation with China on matters in the WTO and Climate Change Accords where China and India are often on the same side arranged against America; USA is separated from China by the planet earth's widest ocean. Indian soldiers stand metres away at many spots versus China's PLA. Our calculations vis a vis the Chinese and the CCP's machinations cannot be mirror images of USA's policies. We may not like them but we need to live with them.

There are many ways to drive home the point to China. Banning investment and trade is usually the stupidest - chop your nose to spite your face. Tik Tok was a symbolic ban to play to the home crowd - no Govt could afford to look weak in the summer after Galwan it was also a high visibility-low economic impact in the overall scheme of things. The more economic stakes China has in India the more leverage we get with them. Banning is an instrument of a Foreign Service that does not apply its mind to more subtle and sophisticated measures.

Table below of India's imports from China
Source: Trading Economics.com

India exports US$ 16.6 billion to China (FY2019-20). These exports directly support approximately 21 to 23 lakh jobs in India - think of it as roughly that number of families. Sharing this data to make members realize these decisions have more implications than social media arm chair nationalism might lead you to think. Patriotism is not knee jerk reactions that might make you feel powerful & vindicated for a week. Patriotism means apply your mind for the long term and acting shrewdly.

[ashpalio]

I could not resist penning my thoughts here. I get it, the Nationalism, the digital nationalism. The "Josh" many citizens display over the "digital world." It is an amazing feeling and will be an achievement if "Atmanirbhar" is attained in the real world. But, dreaming such dreams are Good. They lay the path to achieving the goal... someday...Someday. Dreams are in the future tense, and the present situation is present tense. All those here and outside this group who have thrown away the "Chinese" products given a thought as to where did the replacement product come from? Yes, the company might be Korean, Indian, European, American, peek under the hood, and the "Chinese" label is all over it.

Some products can be completely void of Chinese fingerprints on them, but are the 'nationalist' people ready to change their lifestyle around it? Heck, I can bet that some of the posts here were typed and sent over a laptop. Did you see where the parts or even the company is from? Many of the posts would have been typed from a Lenovo laptop (corporate laptop :P, hey just highlighting a fact, nothing about the company), oops, its a Chinese company. So will the "nationalist' employee demand a "Desi" laptop or resign from the job if the company refuses to meet the demand? Let's get real, not an idealist.

First, build the capability and then do all the naatak. If the USA bans something, some companies, people, countries, does it mean we Indians should follow? I ask each one of you - Are the Chinese the only ones spying the whole world? Are Americans any less intrusive? How many of you have Gmail accounts, Facebook, Twitter, the Hottest app in the news - WhatsApp and whatnot? Are none of the nationalist agendas affected by the American spying?

We are way too deep inside the global village pit. We cannot do without depending on other countries, But yes, We certainly can reduce the dependency. And that takes time and serious, unwavering Government, policies supporting less red tapeism, less stupid paperwork, taxes, cess, and the worst Epidemic - Corruption. And Most Importantly, Educated variety and Trained variety of citizens who STAY in the Country to develop it and not run, hop, jump to the EU or USA at the slightest issue or opportunity.

The USA bans Xiaomi, so what? It is their agenda, their problem, that's their solution. Does it suit India? I personally do not think so. Yes, it's a Chinese company taking away profits from India/ hey, let's leave spying out till proven even to a small extent, do not forget, Suzuki well, Japanese, so what? They have been eating so much in the name of royalties. There are 1000s of companies in our country draining India's foreign reserves in such payments. Focus on reducing these outflows. Banning companies will only cause chaos, NPAs, defaulters (who never wish to intentionally).
Only when food is in the stomach can you fight. Empty stomachs make no soldiers. Economically India is invested deep with many Foreign country companies. As a country, we are today because of all that we earn, spend making India grow.

Nationalism should be in its true sense in the real world, with real actions, most importantly from within, a sense of belonging and pride in its right place.

[turbo]

Originally Posted by ashpalio

Yes, the company might be Korean, Indian, European, American, peek under the hood, and the "Chinese" label is all over it.

How is a Samsung phone, that's made in India, running on an Exynos processor, which is made in South Korea Chinese?

And the problem has never been hardware, it's always software.

Why can't the manufacturers give a plain android version, like Google pixel? Why do they have to bundle in their stupid bloated UI anyway? Because they make money from those inbuilt apps.

Seriously, every manufacturer knows, if there is an option on startup to either install a)stock Google Rom: or b)MiUI, coloorO, one UI etc etc, everyone will choose stock Google rom.

So why do companies spend hundreds of hours developing their custom UI, that sits on top of android?

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by ashpalio

I could not resist penning my thoughts here...
...First, build the capability and then do all the naatak...
...
...Let's get real, not an idealist.

Bravo. We do not have a single indigenous consumer product that could qualify as world-class. All our tech and consumables are either licensed, imported, or copied. Let's be grateful that we have a market large enough to matter to corporations (advantage of a large population) or we'd be some Pakistan-type economic basket case.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Patriotism is not knee jerk reactions that might make you feel powerful & vindicated for a week. Patriotism means apply your mind for the long term and acting shrewdly.

Sir, you have described the difference between jingoism and statecraft. We, both as an administration and as a people, are overrun by the former, with not nearly enough of the latter.

You mentioned 23 lakh jobs. If we shut off trade with China, I assume those jobs would likely be lost. I wonder if the esteemed members here, who vociferously cheer such action and say losing jobs is a minor inconvenience, would be ok with losing their own jobs similarly, or if they're ok to donate 100% of their earnings to those affected.

I know this is off topic, but I think it's relevant - for all of our keyboard jingoism and pop patriotism, our army has a 15% shortfall in officers. This means that there aren't enough people willing to actually do anything about a confrontation with CN or PK, except use their thumbs.

Originally Posted by turbo

How is a Samsung phone, that's made in India, running on an Exynos processor, which is made in South Korea Chinese?

Sir, a phone is more than just a main SoC/proc. Comms antennae, memory, display, boards, casing, glass all are integral. Take a guess where Samsung buys a lot of its components from.

[CarJunki]

Somehow I have never owned a Chinese brand or China manufactured phone. Now close to 2 decades I have been mobile phone user. I used to own Siemens, Sony-Ericsson, Motorola, Nokia, Samsung and now Made in India Nokia(HMD).

There is definitely great attraction in low cost high bling (or screen size in this case) Chinese phone. For people who are primarily driven by a combination these 2 factors will feel the pinch if sales ban comes.

[manjunathkl]

Disclaimer: I have nothing against people of China or its companies

If you can't find non-China manufactured goods to buy, at least don't buy products of China owned brands. In this globalized world, it doesn't matter where the product gets manufactured. What matters is, who takes the biggest profit out of the sales of its products? It is the brand owner. e.g. Even though Apple and Samsung have the largest share of smartphones, ~90% of it is manufactured by Foxconn. If manufacturing company made that much profits, Foxconn must have been the largest company by revenue. It is not. Brand owners draw the highest profits and pay taxes in their home countries.

I'm not asking any govt to ban any company/country be it Chinese or others - I'm just asking common people to have basic self-respect when it comes to decisions of contribution to economy.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by manjunathkl

It is the brand owner. e.g. Even though Apple and Samsung have the largest share of smartphones, ~90% of it is manufactured by Foxconn. If manufacturing company made that much profits, Foxconn must have been the largest company by revenue. It is not. Brand owners draw the highest profits and pay taxes in their home countries.

There is a lot packed in your post. I would suggest that you go through a full teardown of a iPhone or Galaxy phone, and look at the BOM, and the origins of these components. The final product coming out of Foxconn means very little. Apple/Samsung are not just brand owners, selling something from Foxconn. Where would that leave all the chipset vendors, their sw and their IP? Step 13 and 14 here =>
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPho...eardown/137669

For all you know a large percentage of design, software and IP in the lower end phones is coming out of Hyderabad/Bangalore labs of Qualcomm, Broadcom, Skyworks and such vendors. Is design/IP not part of a product? I think it is very hard to determine what or how much is actually from China.

What is really needed is a drastic push for the country to be self-sufficient in tech/modern products for better lifestyle. Much like what was done with agriculture - post independence. Till that happens, we need to temper the outrage of our friends, & family buying products in the market that suits their needs.

<Tangential comment>
I am commenting on this thread because, I had gifted my father (who is ~80) a phone, and some random youngster gave him a lecture, about how his kids were well off, he still uses Chinese phones, and is somehow anti-national. My father was confused and worried that he may have to learn typing/using a different phone.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

... I wonder if the esteemed members here, who vociferously cheer such action and say losing jobs is a minor inconvenience, would be ok with losing their own jobs similarly, or if they're ok to donate 100% of their earnings to those affected.

... This means that there aren't enough people willing to actually do anything about a confrontation with CN or PK, except use their thumbs...

No prizes for guessing why 'Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make!' is simultaneously a popular funny meme and tragic social commentary.

[AZT]

Off topic but just to prove how hollow these ban claims actually are -

Brazil’s Bolsonaro backtracks on Huawei 5G stance

After the US failed in its promise to provide badly needed vaccines to Brazil, the nation's committed pro-US stance melted away

Financial costs potentially worth billions of dollars and the exit of ally President Donald Trump from the White House are forcing President Jair Bolsonaro to backtrack on his opposition to Huawei bidding to provide the next generation cellular network for carriers in Brazil, the paper said.

Let's not become sheep blindly believing anything, All these bans etc on Huawei, Xiaomi, TikTok etc. are nothing but global diplomacy at play. The BARC ratings scandal just showed us how local news channels use 'Nationalism' to bump up their ratings so best to stay above board when looking at things like this.

Read More: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN29L0JM
https://asiatimes.com/2021/01/brazil...wei-5g-stance/

[Napalm]

Originally Posted by ashish.uno

It is common knowledge that china uses its supposedly private companies as a state tool. The purpose could be any from as small as data mining, human behavioral prediction using AI (mobiles, apps) to planting malicious software to be triggered at an opportune time (telecom equipment)

We can be myopic and enjoy the predatory pricing until other brands cannot cope up with the losses and just vacate the space OR we can take corrective measures to protect our interest.

+1 to this. There is no such thing as a private company/entity in China. If a company wants to even exist in China, they have to do exactly what the CCP says. Else they will be buried. Just look at what happened to Jack-Ma, the richest person in China and his Ant-group. He has been recently bullied by CCP for merely criticizing the CCP economic policies.

The Ant group and Tencent group are under govt(if you want to call it that) investigation and have suffered huge financial losses, because CCP realized they are becoming more powerful than the CCP.

The normal Chinese citizens are not to blame here, it is just the brutal nature of the communist regime. Just like the Pakistan Army(directly or indirectly controls the govt), and not the normal Pakistani citizens are to blame for the hatred against India.

It is common knowledge that China hugely subsidizes the Huawei's manufacturing of telecom equipment, even financially, in China, so that it can be sold at dirt cheap prices in the western countries. This has been proved at the WTO. This is a text book case of predatory pricing. It is not surprising that CCP was caught spying with these equipment in western countries and hence it was banned. They openly spy on their own citizens too. These are undoubted & uncontested facts.

Just imagine, if china did this to western countries in UK & EU, whom it does not even consider an enemy, then imagine what it will do to India(& USA), which it considers its arch enemy in the path of its world domination.

Anything that comes dirt cheap, has an invisible price that you have to pay. Just like the social media apps, which take our private data away. We need to be careful when buying dirt-cheap Chinese mobiles/electronics and other goods.