[johy]

Dear Friends,

Firstly, you guys rock! I have learnt so much more about cars in the last few days - I am so happy to be a part of this forum.

After combing the team-bhp forums, reading up various reviews, and test driving both the Santro and Wagon R, my wife and myself have decided to buy the Wagon R Vxi. The factors we considered before arriving at a decision vis-a-vis the Santro are 1) Easy Drivebility, especially U-turns 2) Good driving position and visibility 3) Decent air conditioning 4) Flexibility of rear seats. 5) Decision to switch from Hyundai (we presently own a Santro Deluxe 1999) - so that we feel we are driving something that is not a Santro.

Now, as some of you will know, there are two variants (for Metallic color - I am going for Wine Red) to choose from:
Euro II - Rs. 3,65,032
Bharat III - Rs. 3,77,048

Both ex-show room prices, so the difference is Rs. 12016/-. I have a few questions.

1) What is the essential difference between Euro II and BS-III. Which one should I go for? Is it merely limited to emisson standards? Does the FE and/or performance vary with the variants? I am looking at the 12K I can save going for E-II version and invest it in HU + speakers for the new car.

2) The fog lamps - should I buy MGA stuff or buy the fog lamps from elsewhere. Which ones would you recommend?

3) The rear-view mirror question: What would be the best option for changing the rear-view mirrors to convex ones? Can I just remove the plain glass and fit convex ones from a Santro/Qualis after resizing? Or is there more to it?

4) Which audio setup? (I know, this will go to the audio section)..and I am surely going to post it there. My budget for this would be between 12,000 to 15,000.

5) Any other suggestions would be most appreciated.

Friends, I need all the help I can get; I will probably be getting the car within the next 15 days or so (the sooner I hope) ..Lastly, please forgive the n00b nature of my questions.

Thanks in advance,

Johy

[Zappo]

Originally Posted by johy

1) What is the essential difference between Euro II and BS-III. Which one should I go for? Is it merely limited to emisson standards? Does the FE and/or performance vary with the variants? I am looking at the 12K I can save going for E-II version and invest it in HU + speakers for the new car.

2) The fog lamps - should I buy MGA stuff or buy the fog lamps from elsewhere. Which ones would you recommend?

3) The rear-view mirror question: What would be the best option for changing the rear-view mirrors to convex ones? Can I just remove the plain glass and fit convex ones from a Santro/Qualis after resizing? Or is there more to it?

4) Which audio setup? (I know, this will go to the audio section)..and I am surely going to post it there. My budget for this would be between 12,000 to 15,000.

I will skip the audio part as our ICE gurus will answer that better (and the first thing they will tell you is 'are you nuts? 12k for ICE? What ICE?').

Your main predicament is with E-II (BS-II, same thing) and BS-III car and the price difference. Believe me, although it sounds lucrative I would say that it is better to go for the BS-III. Yes, the essential difference is in the emission norms that they meet. However to make a car BS-III compliant the manufacturers do modernize it in several departments. I believe the BS-II/E-II car has a 16 bit ECU whereas the BS-III comes with a 32 bit ECU. This itself will mean a car that is much more modern. May have better response, a lean-burn engine, lower emissions, higher number of sensors etc.

Also, the days of BS-II are long gone. Its only in remote places that the manufacturers still sell them. You can't buy a BS-II car in cities like Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata, Bangalore, Hyderabad etc... In fact in most Indian cities. You also can not register them in these cities. So you see? Buying E-II already means buying an outdated car that you won't be able to take to a bigger city ever. By the way Europe (E in EII, E-III etc is europe) has already moved on to the E-IV norms and India is also expected to move on to BS-IV norms by 2010, I believe. Already some state governments are planning to start deregistering the pre E-II cars as they fall far below the emission norms. Buying an E-II car may very well mean that when the E-IV/BS-IV norms kick-in and if the government decides to do away with the E-II cars you will have to junk it (4 years down the line).

About your fog-lamps, I would say that you may very well get it installed from outside. You will save yourself a packet there. And the mirrors can definitely be changed. There is nothing big there. At least for a WagonR it is just a simple mirror. No internal adjustment kaa funda or any such thing. Just a plain screw-in job. Take care though to ensure that the newer ones do not stick out on your car... they should gel-in well with the overall looks of the car.

[DCEite]

I agrew with Zappo... BS III anyday

[DCEite]

About the Santro Mirror on WagonR, i have seen it in a couple of wagonRs.. it doesnt look bad. Infact, the international wagonR has convex mirrors. Or ask your dealer if some imported mirrors can be ordered.

[johy]

Thanks for the advice.

Now what is a foolproof method to know that the car is Bharat Stage III and Not Euro II - besides the stickers and the invoice.

johy

[Zappo]

Originally Posted by johy

Thanks for the advice.

Now what is a foolproof method to know that the car is Bharat Stage III and Not Euro II - besides the stickers and the invoice.

johy

Aha!!! Well... superficially none probably, except for the invoice. However if you are buying from a Maruti dealer I do not think he will sell you a BS-II car and bill you for a BS-III. It is just too risky for him... even 5 years in future if he is caught you can sue his pants off, not to speak of the penalties the company will levy as they will also be termed a party to the fraud. So rest assured.

Otherwise, I would say any of these can be tried,

• Buy from the nearest big city. BS-II cars are not sold in most bigger cities.
• Check to ensure whether Maruti added some extra sensors and their tell-tale lights. These will allay your doubts.
• Check to learn whether Maruti etches the BS-III cars as such in any components in the Engine bay. For example the BS-III Indica looks completely (and I mean completely) different inside the engine bay from its BS-II counterpart.
• If sufficient expertise is available at your nearest PUC checking center you can take their help to find out whether the car is indeed BS-III
• Finally read the manual. It will prominently talk about the car being BS-III. It may talk about new parts like EGR etc which can be physically verified.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by johy

Thanks for the advice.

Now what is a foolproof method to know that the car is Bharat Stage III and Not Euro II - besides the stickers and the invoice.

I guess, headlamp levelling switch is mandatory on all BS-III models. Check it out.

[johy]

Thanks guys. Zappo, I do see some "light" now...I am going to do the research. As for purchasing it, the nearest metro is Calcutta, but I just don't have the time to go there and get the vehicle.

[johy]

Hi friends,

I have finally (I bought the car at the end of last month) gotten around to uploading some pictures of my new wine red Wagon-R Vxi. And Zappo, it is Bharat Stage III. I am grateful for the advice I have received from one and all. Today was washing-and-waxing day and thanks to Mr. Sen for this wonderful thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ghlight=waxing

The pics:









johy

P.S.: Everything is pretty stock stuff right now. I got fed up and ripped off the plastic covers on those seats. I will be getting my audio stuff hopefully this week. Once I get a breather, I will be heading for them hills and there will be more pictures to share.

[DCEite]

Congrats man on your purchase... its great that T-bhp made you take the right decision.

A piece of advice, the manual does not specify the run-in period.. so dont rev the car too much (and i think u have a tacho as well) during the first 1500kms.

And stay away from adultrated fuel as far as possible!

P.S. Great choice of colour!

[aZa]

hey johy congrats on ur car, thats one helluva color i must say!! Nurse it well for the first 1K-1.5K on the odo and it will serve u well

Btw where in siliguri are ya ? i have a house in Darjeeling so a frequent visitor to siliguri

[johy]

Hi aZa,

Salugara, on the way to Sevoke.