[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Sounds like you're looking at a project car to play with. Why not a used 1.6 TDi instead of current GT? Stock 1.6 GT was much better than the current 1.5, but I'm not sure about remapped versions of these.

Also, is the S Cross really that bigger than these cars? With the SCross, you have a much bigger budget for upgrade. I have a gut feeling a modded SCross 1.6 will run circles around these cars with performance and suspension upgrades. It's not really all that big when you compare to other forum favorites like Laura, Jetta, Rapid etc.

Plus exclusivity. You have tonnes of modified GTs already and Figo will soon be there as well. How unique would your car be finally after all the mods? Hardcore 1.6 SCross? Now that would be a new direction.

1.6 TDI is definitely more fun than current 1.5 TDI. I have driven both cars back to back. 1.6 is more free revving and turbo kick is addictive. Both cars have same figures. I feel torque curve in 1.6 is held for longer after peak compared to 1.5.

S-Cross is not a big car, but definitely not in the league of hatchbacks. I find SX4/S-Cross similar to drive in terms of dimensions. Baleno/Grand I10 feels easier to drive in city and congested highways. So I want something more powerful in that size.

Stay tuned for 1.6 S-Cross . Something good is going to happen soon.

Originally Posted by keroo1099

Whatever car you choose, it still will be a blast to drive. Cheers.

Haha, that's the only intention

[autorahul]

There were rumblings of a 1.4 TSi Polo being tested. If I wanted a high performance car, that would definitely be on my list, and would probably be worth waiting for at least till the festive season which itself would give 140 BHP on tap.

Second option would be the Figo. How open it is to customisation, is what I am not very aware of.

Also dont just consider the initial cost. The tuned up cars, wear out their parts generally faster, and you need to be mindful of the costs for that too.

Baleno 1.0 with Boosterjet is another contender, but seeing you already have a Baleno, I doubt that will be considered.

EDIT: A whacky suggestion. Have you asked around for any second hand Mini Coopers available? Who knows what you might be able to unearth!

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by autorahul

There were rumblings of a 1.4 TSi Polo being tested. If I wanted a high performance car, that would definitely be on my list, and would probably be worth waiting for at least till the festive season which itself would give 140 BHP on tap.

Second option would be the Figo. How open it is to customisation, is what I am not very aware of.

Also dont just consider the initial cost. The tuned up cars, wear out their parts generally faster, and you need to be mindful of the costs for that too.

Baleno 1.0 with Boosterjet is another contender, but seeing you already have a Baleno, I doubt that will be considered.

EDIT: A whacky suggestion. Have you asked around for any second hand Mini Coopers available? Who knows what you might be able to unearth!

I have few more months to decide. Polo 1.4 TSI/Baleno booster jet would be also considered. I am already impressed with handling of my Baleno. Boosterjet would have stiffer springs and all 4 disc brakes. Also, Baleno is a light weight car. 135 bhp post remap, light weight, good handling : perfect package? . Well, I need to trade off my Baleno if i go for boosterjet.

Dad is dead against buying 2nd hand cars. According to me, a well maintained 2nd hand car is the ideal one to work on with all mods. But this is not going to happen.

[mxh]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

The gearbox is 80% of the fun in the TSi - no manual can replace it as the ratios are so perfectly tuned for the engine. Go get a long test drive and then come back saying you want a manual . Trust me you won't even care.

Some people buy cars for the fun and engagement of driving. An automatic box might be convenient but that's not always what car enthusiasts want. Take a look at the latest episode of top gear, covering the porsche 911 R - a high revving naturally aspirated engine with a manual gearbox. Enjoyment and lap times are two very different things.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by mxh

Some people buy cars for the fun and engagement of driving. An automatic box might be convenient but that's not always what car enthusiasts want. Take a look at the latest episode of top gear, covering the porsche 911 R - a high revving naturally aspirated engine with a manual gearbox. Enjoyment and lap times are two very different things.

Few automatic cars are fun to drive like 320D. VAG DSG is also good. But I feel something incomplete when I drive an automatic. It's that beautiful stick used with your left hand which connects the driver and engine .

[swiftnfurious]

I am lost! What's your definition of "performance" or a "fun car"? Abarth with an 8.8s to the ton doesn't make a cut in stock form or upgraded tyres?

From you post, it looks like a remap + broder tyres would make these cars more fun to drive, which may not be the actual behavior in real time. Unless the car has a potent chassis and capable suspension + steering, what will all the additional power achieve? Braking is another factor to be considered with all these additional power.

I personally suggest you to first define your requirements deeper and then look at options. You may also need to factor in extra the dough for a suspension upgrade for the Figo & Polo especially (If you choose any of these).

Just curious - what's not making the Abarth fun-to-drive in stock form from your perspective? Even in stock form, it makes more power than the re-mapped versions of Polo / Figo I believe, has all 4 disc brake from the company, notchy(?) gear shift which can't be resolved. A simple tyre upgrade changes the whole equation?

EDIT:: Just recollected - Why not wait for the Baleno RS; that should be launched by the time you wanna buy a new car. Could fit in well since the reviews were good for both petrol & diesel during the hot hatch wars. I remember Aditya patel mentioning that Baleno was the biggest surprise of the drive.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I am lost! What's your definition of "performance" or a "fun car"? Abarth with an 8.8s to the ton doesn't make a cut in stock form or upgraded tyres?

From you post, it looks like a remap + broder tyres would make these cars more fun to drive, which may not be the actual behavior in real time. Unless the car has a potent chassis and capable suspension + steering, what will all the additional power achieve? Braking is another factor to be considered with all these additional power.

I personally suggest you to first define your requirements deeper and then look at options. You may also need to factor in extra the dough for a suspension upgrade for the Figo & Polo especially (If you choose any of these).

Just curious - what's not making the Abarth fun-to-drive in stock form from your perspective? Even in stock form, it makes more power than the re-mapped versions of Polo / Figo I believe, has all 4 disc brake from the company, notchy(?) gear shift which can't be resolved. A simple tyre upgrade changes the whole equation?

EDIT:: Just recollected - Why not wait for the Baleno RS; that should be launched by the time you wanna buy a new car. Could fit in well since the reviews were good for both petrol & diesel during the hot hatch wars. I remember Aditya patel mentioning that Baleno was the biggest surprise of the drive.

Be it a stock car or modded one, no car would be "perfect". Any car would lack in one or other department. I am just looking for a hatchback which is fast, decent body control and well under my budget.

Abarth Punto is the obvious choice, if all 3 cars are considered in stock form.

A stock Figo diesel was faster than Abarth punto on track. This might not be true on real world experience. But a car which is not branded as "hot hatch" is giving the mighty Abarth run for it's money. Again Abarth Punto is the best car overall, thanks to excellent dynamics.

Stock Abarth punto is rated 145 bhp at crank. It would be around 120 bhp at wheels. Remapped polo would be easily doing 130-135 bhp at wheels. Also the torque advantage is huge in remapped Polo compared to Abarth.

Stage 2 tuned Polo TDI with stiffer springs vs Abarth Punto remapped.. Which one would you consider?

Yes, Baleno is good at handling and braking department. Boosterjet should be launched around festive season.

P.S : I was the first one to spot boosterjet baleno undergoing tests in India and had a good interaction with Maruti engineers too. I have seen this car in live. I will take a call after driving it.

Cheers!!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

A stock Figo diesel was faster than Abarth punto on track. This might not be true on real world experience. But a car which is not branded as "hot hatch" is giving the mighty Abarth run for it's money.

Absolutely true. But you're not planning to keep the car in its stock form, are you?

As Overdrive clearly mentioned in the verdict "Merely better rubber would have made it faster than the Figo".

So worse are the Alnacs for handling 145bhp of power that I had to launch the car in second gear to achieve sub 10 second timings. Incidentally, the best time I personally managed with a second gear start was 9.8 secs which is similar to best timing for the Figo.

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Stage 2 tuned Polo TDI with stiffer springs vs Abarth Punto remapped.. Which one would you consider?

I would pick the diesel due to my long usage requirements, but I believe the turbo petrol (irrespective of brand) would be more fun. Turbo diesels have a narrow power band when compared to the turbo petrols.

With an RD box, my car was dyno tested to put out comparable figures to a stock TJet petrol motor. But on the road, the performance of the turbo petrol was way superior and likeable.

PS - By the way, do you have an Abarth dealership anywhere nearby? Else no use even considering it. Easiest way to eliminate one car from the confusion.

Also, did you test drive all these cars yet?

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Absolutely true. But you're not planning to keep the car in its stock form, are you?

As Overdrive clearly mentioned in the verdict "Merely better rubber would have made it faster than the Figo".

So worse are the Alnacs for handling 145bhp of power that I had to launch the car in second gear to achieve sub 10 second timings. Incidentally, the best time I personally managed with a second gear start was 9.8 secs which is similar to best timing for the Figo.

I would pick the diesel due to my long usage requirements, but I believe the turbo petrol (irrespective of brand) would be more fun. Turbo diesels have a narrow power band when compared to the turbo petrols.

PS - By the way, do you have an Abarth dealership anywhere nearby? Else no use even considering it. Easiest way to eliminate one car from the confusion.

Also, did you test drive all these cars yet?

I was just trying to point out how lesser powerful and cheaper cars can give tough fight to Abarth Punto. Alnacs are just above average. I have the same tyres in my Baleno with same spec as Abarth - 195/55 R16.

A stage 2 tuned Polo would beat remapped Abarth punto hands down, be it on track or street Weight advantage and loads of torque will definitely help Polo.

Yes, I have driven all these cars in stock form. Polo 1.6 TDI and GT TSI, I have driven remapped one's too. We do have a Fiat dealer in Mangalore. I had taken my first TD of Abarth Punto at Thrissur. Mangalore dealer got the TD car ages after launch. Now they are planning to sell even TD car here.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3881647

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by mxh

Some people buy cars for the fun and engagement of driving. An automatic box might be convenient but that's not always what car enthusiasts want. Take a look at the latest episode of top gear, covering the porsche 911 R - a high revving naturally aspirated engine with a manual gearbox. Enjoyment and lap times are two very different things.

True - a good manual gearbox gives a lot of involvement and enjoyment. However the manual gearboxes in the polo, figo and especially the punto aren't the best out there. The polo tdi has a hard clutch, the new figo box is not as slick as the previous gen and less said about the abarth with its rubbery shifts and long travel clutch the better.

None of these boxes are as slick as the 911 R you are talking about. Hell they are not even close to a good Honda or Mitsubishi box. We are discussing economy cars here!

Get a paddle shift wheel on the GT TSi and the enjoyment is no less than any of these cars with a so so stick shift. However when you want to relax, you can just put it in D and forget about everything else around. While in the other cars you keep struggling with the quirks of a poor manual transmission.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

True - a good manual gearbox gives a lot of involvement and enjoyment. However the manual gearboxes in the polo, figo and especially the punto aren't the best out there. The polo tdi has a hard clutch, the new figo box is not as slick as the previous gen and less said about the abarth with its rubbery shifts and long travel clutch the better.

None of these boxes are as slick as the 911 R you are talking about. Hell they are not even close to a good Honda or Mitsubishi box. We are discussing economy cars here!

Get a paddle shift wheel on the GT TSi and the enjoyment is no less than any of these cars with a so so stick shift. However when you want to relax, you can just put it in D and forget about everything else around. While in the other cars you keep struggling with the quirks of a poor manual transmission.

I agree that manual transmission in these 3 mentioned cars is not the best units. But it's something which could be lived with. Polo and Figo gearshifts are good, but can be better. Yes, Abarth has rubbery shifts and a weird clutch.

Hmm.. GT TSI with Paddle shifts sounds good . I think it costs around 60K for new steering wheel with Paddle shit from VAG Tune? It comes as an entire unit along with driver airbag.

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

I agree that manual transmission in these 3 mentioned cars is not the best units. But it's something which could be lived with. Polo and Figo gearshifts are good, but can be better. Yes, Abarth has rubbery shifts and a weird clutch.

Hmm.. GT TSI with Paddle shifts sounds good . I think it costs around 60K for new steering wheel with Paddle shit from VAG Tune? It comes as an entire unit along with driver airbag.

I think something changed in the Figo's transmission this gen - it no longer is as precise as the previous gen fiesta/figo. Its not as bad as the punto but isn't great either. YMMV.

A 6c GTI wheel with paddle shifts can be customised and bought from the guys in mexico via ebay for far less than 60k. Vagtune also sources their units from the same place.

Also don't go by 0-100 or track tests done by a third party. I know how OD works through some insiders and all these tests have sponsorship money at play. Buy what feels the best to you - if its the GT TDi, so be it.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

A stage 2 tuned Polo

Has anyone done a stage 2 remap of the 1.5 GT? I can see Stage 2 remap of the 1.6 GT TDI Rapid (Kryptonite) having a VBox clocked 0-100 timing of 8.26 seconds (10.51 with stock GT)

Beats the stock Punto Abarth's known VBox timing of 8.96 seconds. Stock Figo Aspire does it in 9.72 seconds.

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Now they are planning to sell even TD car here.

Hopeless as usual.

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Alnacs are just above average. I have the same tyres in my Baleno with same spec as Abarth - 195/55 R16.

What feels as above average handling 82bhp feels pathetic while asked to handle 145hp. They should have provided better stock rubber to justify the Abarth tag.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Has anyone done a stage 2 remap of the 1.5 GT? I can see Stage 2 remap of the 1.6 GT TDI Rapid (Kryptonite) having a VBox clocked 0-100 timing of 8.26 seconds (10.51 with stock GT)

Beats the stock Punto Abarth's known VBox timing of 8.96 seconds.

Kryptonite has got stage 2 tune for his Laura(includes a bigger turbo). He was running on stage 1 remap in Rapid (but with an aggressive map).

TOT said they have stage 2 remap available for 1.6 TDI. They have not yet done stage 2 on 1.5. It can be done, but they need to check with few things like parts compatibility.

[Vik0728]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Has anyone done a stage 2 remap of the 1.5 GT? I can see Stage 2 remap of the 1.6 GT TDI Rapid (Kryptonite) having a VBox clocked 0-100 timing of 8.26 seconds (10.51 with stock GT)

I am not sure about the remap on 1.5 GT TDi, but our very own Bangalorean brraj has done a remap on the 1.6 GT TDI.

Link

V-Box figures: 0-100 in 8.8 sec

This is faster than Abarth Punto in its current tune.

So it only reconfirms my belief in the saying:

No REPLACEMENT for DISPLACMENT

My point is,

If you take a 1.4L and a 1.6L engine, add Turbochargers, remaps, intercoolers, etc across both, the former will still not be able to out perform the latter. Even if it does, it cannot be by a huge margin.

They should have provided better stock rubber to justify the Abarth tag.

Exactly my point. Engineers at FIAT realised that they need to invoke the performance branch and added the Abarth to Punto, which gave perfect engine, chassis and dynamics.
How did they actually forget to give a better gearbox and tires is just beyond me.

Even a regular enthusiast like me, who comes with no automobile engineering background knows that one of the most important component of a performance car are the tires.