[fhdowntheline]

Just as an update to my thread, yesterday I got to do a test drive of a Wagon-R ZXI+ 1.2 AMT, apparently one of the several dealers did have one and loaned it to the Maruti dealership that I am currently engaging. My father took the rear seat since ingress-egress is an aspect of consideration. My impression was that the AMT did feel fairly responsive, similar to what I felt in the S-Presso. Of course the 1.2 engine did feel much more peppy. The Wagon-R suspension from the driver perspective, feels softer than other cars. My father liked the overall spacious ambience of the car, but still felt that the rear seat to a bit bouncy and the lack of sufficient headrest at the rear was a bit of a downer.
On my part, strangely, I did not feel comfortable in terms of my right knee angle with respect to the pedals, even though I stopped the car twice for adjusting forward/aft and backrest. The lack of seat height adjustment seems to be the culprit. Therefore, we may still need to review options like Ignis, Nios and perhaps the Swift, although I feel it kind of violates the size criteria for a compact car that I have started out with. Can something be done after market about seat thigh padding and rear headrests for the Wagon R?

[AGupta]

Any specific reason of skipping Celerio from the contenders?
We have one Celerio AMT (2018) and it's quite reliable even after completing 70k kms. The car is beater and still have it's clutch assembly intact. We are quite surprised because usual clutch life is approx 40k kms for AMT equipped cars as per service advisors

[VPJ74]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Dear All,

I have been piggy backing on some of the threads in the quest to get inputs for a requirement of mine: a second, city beater hatchback.

I am looking for a similar car here in Mumbai. A few of my observations:

1. I have decided to include a "firmer/safer" car as compared to the bottom-barrel tin-pots to include Jazz, Altroz and i20. Here in Mumbai we would occasionally drive on the Sea-Link, Western Hwy, Eastern Fwy etc and I felt that a premium hatchback is also worth considering.

2. The difference between a AMT Nios and mid-spec i20/Jazz is only 1-5 L so it's a small difference.

3. The AMT is supposed to be the most reliable of the automatic gearboxes but I am biased towards the CVT. The AMT TD just felt OK although the Baleno AMT felt the best.

4. Some interesting things might happen after Oct 1; If a Nios is offered with 6 airbags worth the wait.

5. I am put off by the entry-level Maruti offerings including the Baleno. Just doesn't feel stable or reliable.

[Wanderers]

AMTs are grossly overpriced, specially the Hyundai’s ones. Can’t imgine buying a AMT nios at 8.5 lakhs but I guess options are limited.
Coming to AMT vs Manual for second beater car, I would choose a car with good boot space and extra people carrying capacity say 5 people with few kids as well and not worry about manual or AMT.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by AGupta

Any specific reason of skipping Celerio from the contenders?

The new Celerio is quite overpriced for what it offers I think, the same 1.0 engine and not much more space than the S Presso. Also the ride felt a bit too bouncy for my liking.

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

The new Celerio is quite overpriced for what it offers I think, the same 1.0 engine and not much more space than the S Presso. Also the ride felt a bit too bouncy for my liking.

If budget and parking are not constraints, then Amaze Petrol S CVT could also be a good choice. It will just touch 10L on road in Pune (as per the CarDekho on-road price tool). Jazz is also a good option, but is more expensive than Amaze.

[Gautham_v6]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Dear All,

I have been piggy backing on some of the threads in the quest to get inputs for a requirement of mine: a second, city beater hatchback.
I have used cars like Nano, Micra, Polo TSI in the past and would once again like to get a two-car scenario, where the second car is essentially used for congested city errands. The budget is not a huge constraint, but the choices are not wide enough in my opinion. I have narrowed down to S-Presso, Wagon R, Ignis and the Nios (prefer the short name instead of the Grand I10 Nios).

I have tested the following variants:
1) S-Presso AMT
2) Wagon-R 1.0 and 1.2 Manual - I was told that most dealers do not have the 1.2 AMT available for TD.
3) Ignis Manual & AMT
4) Nios 1.2 Manual and AMT

Powertrain Performance
Amongst the AMTs the Nios AMT felt the best, followed by S-Presso. The Ignis AMT somehow felt jerky.

Handling Feel (urban confines)
Again, here I felt the Nios had the edge because of better steering, all-round visibility. Followed by S-Presso, Ignis and Wagon-R.

Suspension
Wagon R had the softest, followed by S-Presso and then Nios, and then Ignis.

Manual Powertrain Performance
Nios felt the best, it has a long clutch travel, but there is a good amount of creep/crawl in the 1st gear, without having to feather the accelerator pedal. The Maruti's did not feel as smooth in this regard. In general, I liked the Nios 1.2 for its linear output in the city confines.

Cabin Ambience
No question, its Nios , followed by Ignis and then S-Presso, and finally Wagon-R. Somehow I felt the S-Presso to be more well-screwed together than the Wagon-R, which just felt very "van" like.

The elephant in the room:-Ingress-Egress
Here I feel the S-Presso and Wagon-R are the best, followed by Ignis and lastly Nios.

I have read various posts on T-Bhp and seen other literature, and felt that somehow the AMT boxes do not really last well, even if you keep the jerkiness aside. Certainly not as bullet proof as a TC/CVT. Hence I am keeping the manual variants in contention. However, I would like inputs from users who have most likely used these cars. My objective is to have this one beater car that can be a fill-it-shut-it-forget-it kind of a vehicle. But it need not be poverty-spec either. From a size perspective, its should be comfortable for 4 adults, and should not be a size approaching the 3.9m length, 1.7m width class. Conventional wisdom says, Maruti but none of their cars really feel worth their price in terms of the look, feel, ambience and some features.
Ironically, its the tiny S-Presso which seems to have fared the best on the GNCAP scores.

Well, the options for a beater car ( Second one) seem sensible. The analysis is good .

As a very proportionate package that promises some amount of premium satisfaction, the Nios definitely fits the bill. But please keep in mind about maintenance costs and spare costs , especially of Hyundai.

But if you would ask me for an all round yet easy package, the Wagon R and Spresso are good as well, if there are certain things to be given up.

I would suggest you to try Tiago/ Tigor and also Celerio, as these are also viable options .For the price you would pay for Wagon R/ Spresso ( if you were to), I would say the Tiago/ Tigor is very good proposition as overall package, if only for the unexciting yet quite frugal petrol engine.

Would request you not to consider the Ignis. I agree that it's better built than the optins listed, but feel it's quite under-equipped and does feel way dated. Also space l and ergonomics is something that the car lacks overtime.

For a second car, manual should be ideal, if it were for city drives.Howvever if you want hassle free experience, amt should be ideal, even if you have long term concerns (Which is something to be expected). Ones from Maruti should be good and quite easy to maintain , whereas the unit in Nios makes use of electronic actuators in AMT than the hydraulic ones in Maruti, which would be expensive to maintain in case of failures on long run.


Happy shopping and good luck with making wise decision

[TheVegabond]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

I have come across many people say that "it's just city use, i can manage with an AMT". That's the most incorrect perception. AMTs are terrible but they are the worst in city traffic. The confusion that arises in the first 3 gears is annoying and the clutch wear becomes excessive.

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Honestly I won’t choose either for city. Manual is a strict No-No in our insane city traffic and AMTs as you mentioned aren’t as reliable as TC/CVT. So if I were you, would look for a used TC/CVT car for purely city use.

You can have a used Jazz CVT for new Nios AMT’s price and its a way more reliable(gearbox), comfortable and safer car. Or maybe a used baleno/i20 CVT.

Totally agree with these posts.

Having driven Maruti Wagon R AMT, Maruti Desire AMT and Hyundai Santro AMT in city traffic, I can say that these AMT boxes are worst in city traffic where the gearbox is forever confused and you get the feeling of literally pulling the car yourself. When you see a gap and try to close it you will find that the throttle response is way below the expectation and feel that you are driving an e-rickshaw rather than a car .

I have driven Hyundai Grand i10 MT in Delhi NCR traffic for 8 years and would pick a manual over the AMT any day. And, if I was looking for an AT, I would make every effort to get a TC or CVT.

[nitin_knw]

Originally Posted by sunikkat

Any reason why you have left out Swift. Few months back when I was in a similar situation for a city beater car, started with Tiago and almost booked Swift. But then finally extended the budget and went for i20 IVT. From my drive, I felt Swift AMT better than Nios AMT (not the gearbox), as a whole car.
Since its a city beater, my humble suggestion is stick to automatic - whether AMT, CVT or TC.

I agree, I have driven Swift AMT though for a short distance and felt the AMT called as AGS by Maruti is quite smooth with no jerkiness felt, would recommend to give a try.

[kedar_GT]

Originally Posted by AGupta

Any specific reason of skipping Celerio from the contenders?
We have one Celerio AMT (2018) and it's quite reliable even after completing 70k kms. The car is beater and still have it's clutch assembly intact. We are quite surprised because usual clutch life is approx 40k kms for AMT equipped cars as per service advisors

Is your garage on a level surface wrt the road? i.e. you don't have to do any inclines on a cold start? I have noticed most jerkiness when things are not warmed up and you rely on the creep function to drive out of the garage. (either forward or reverse)

[AGupta]

Originally Posted by kedar_GT

Is your garage on a level surface wrt the road?

The parking for this car is on road level surface. Since it's a beater car so many times it got parked in open. Apart from this CNG retrofit was done around 40k kms and it's still holding quite good at 70k kms.

[kvsneela]

This is the million dollar question which has no perfect answer. Since this will be second car ( only for errands in congested city traffic), I won't recommend bigger cars( ur choice of cars are ok . Spresso, WagonR, Ignis and Nios; can include Tiago also). Yes. Automatic transmission is very useful for city traffic. ( Compared to highway driving). These small cars have only AMT version of automatic as the customers are money conscious. Out of these Nios has Elecric actuators whereas others have hydraulic( oil) based actuators. As per theory hydraulic system generate more power than electric but the latter can be controlled with precision than the former. That is why NIOS feels better than other AMTs. But none of them are with bullet proof reliability( as there are stories of problems of NIOS AMTs also). Moreover current generation MS AMTs are better but still AMT is AMT. Main problem with AMT is that it is sensitive to throttle inputs( as it is one of the inputs for ECU/TC to decide gear selection). Light throttle is preferred for smooth changing of gears but it will be difficult to follow that by gentlemen ( may be ok for lady drivers) . So over the time TC unit might have overworked (especially in stop -go traffic of cities) and show the effects. ( May need to change clutch at minimum or TC unit maximum ;expenditure from 5k to 80k). It is the price to be paid for comfort offered by AMTs.

[saion666]

Go for the Nios or the Ignis MT. They are overall the better cars for the intended purpose.

AMTs are simply overrated. They were successful in our market only because they provided the same FE as manuals. Otherwise its a jerky and unpredictable experience.

[supermax]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

AMTs feel jerky only to those who are used to driving CVT/TC/DCTs. That's because they are not driving an AMT the way it is supposed to be. You have to modulate the accelerator pedal the way you do in a manual car.

If somebody is upgrading from manual or if somebody has always owned AMTs, they can be driven as smoothly as any another automatic car.

When I drive a manual, I lift off the gas just very briefly before an upshift, to ensure I don't overrev while the clutch is pressed, but after my upshift, I get right back on the throttle to ensure the car doesn't motorbrake. How would the AMT realize this? In fact, if I go off the gas, it might think that I want to slow down and might think of dropping a gear, right? And while the manual transmission is under my complete control, there's no real way to tell the AMT to do my bidding, as I can't lift off the gas and wait for it to upshift, as that'll never happen; what is more likely is that the speed decays a bit and it downshifts.

[naru80]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

My objective is to have this one beater car that can be a fill-it-shut-it-forget-it kind of a vehicle. But it need not be poverty-spec either. From a size perspective, its should be comfortable for 4 adults, and should not be a size approaching the 3.9m length, 1.7m width class. Conventional wisdom says, Maruti but none of their cars really feel worth their price in terms of the look, feel, ambience and some features.

Went through the same situation. Ultimately bought the Swift AMT last month. It just feels better than the rest in the segment.

Drive in an unhurried, sane manner, and the AMT jerkiness is not as bad as made out to be. It's only if you want to push the car that it becomes annoying.

I would highly suggest a TD.

Originally Posted by sunikkat

From my drive, I felt Swift AMT better than Nios AMT (not the gearbox), as a whole car.

I agree. Nios has more premium-ness but the Swift is just so much superior as an overall package. It drives like a breeze and handles like a charm.