[ruskinash]

In a perfect scenario, I would have held onto my 13-year-old Scorpio indefinitely, driving it until it became impractical to maintain. However, circumstances shifted, prompting me to seek out a replacement.

Several factors led to my decision to part with my ageing Scorpio:

1. My requirements evolved, rendering a large vehicle unnecessary.
2. The constant rolling and bouncing of the Scorpio became tiresome, particularly on long journeys, leading to fatigue.
3. I needed an automatic, as the hard clutch in bumper-to-bumper traffic was eating away at my knee. And owing to a recent wrist injury, shifting sticks for at least a couple of years was out of the question.
4. My heart was set on a hatchback as I had the opportunity to drive a Honda Jazz CVT for an extended period post-surgery. It drove beautifully and was everything that I needed.

I would've happily bought a Jazz had it still been around in February 2024. I wasn't too keen on pre-owned automatics due to a sour experience prior. My search was limited to CVT transmissions as history dictated them to be more durable than DCTs. The only hatchback that ticked the box was an i20. A short test drive in one and I was pleased with the overall package.

However, after driving it for 2000 km over various terrains for 2 months, I can't shake the feeling that I may have chosen the wrong car. The i20 lacks the riding comfort and build quality of the Jazz. While the Jazz feels agile and responsive from the get-go, the i20 presents a delay in response.

It whines and revs before exhibiting any desire to move, especially on inclines. Although the sports mode helps somewhat, the lag remains noticeable, particularly in hilly terrain. I find myself missing the instant response and control of a manual transmission, especially in such situations. Now I'm unsure how the Jazz would've fared as I hadn't driven it in the hills. I'm also unsure how a DCT would've handled the continuous short climbs and drops of the hills.

I haven't yet experimented with the manual mode to assess if it improves the responsiveness (I'll update on this later). This experience has taught me the importance of thoroughly test-driving various vehicles in different local terrains to find the best fit for my driving preferences. If only I had taken the i20 for a test drive in the hills I would've immediately shot it down.

To be honest, I did take the DCT version for a test drive on the expressway and was impressed by everything, from the upgraded steering wheel to the sleek all-black interiors. Although I noticed the stiffer suspension, it didn't bother me during the short test drive. However, I remained uncertain about how comfortable it would be for longer drives, especially on rough patches. As I didn't push the powertrain during the test, opting for my usual sedate driving style, its performance wasn't a significant factor in my assessment.

Although I enjoy the convenience of an automatic, and I'm at an age where convenience trumps all, my query to fellow members is:

1. If automatic transmissions in a similar price range tend to exhibit similar sluggishness on hilly terrains?
2. It may be rare to find a car that meets all our driving needs and desires, but how much percentage of our requirements being fulfilled would be satisfactory for you?

[BlackBeard]

Having ordered a Honda jazz AT in March 2022 and then cancelled it (for other reasons) I do not know how a CVT transmission would have fared better in the hills. I found the 1.2L AT jazz to be underpowered and sluggish when I took the test drive with 3 adults inside and AC on and this was not even in the hills. I of course have no DCT experience.

The vehicle is spacious no doubt and even comfortable to sit in the rear seat with decent leg space. I think the 1.5L engine would have been better in it.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by ruskinash

...my query to fellow members is:[*]If automatic transmissions in a similar price range tend to exhibit similar sluggishness on hilly terrains?

My experience with Auto's started with the ultra rare M800 AT 2Spd about 9 years ago. Then came a Zen AT and tried Kwid AMT and then a Triber AMT. Currently a 2.5 Altima CVT.

I can for sure say any automatic box saps and drains the engine of its power for want of comfort. Have driven each of the Indian cars with the same engine and in the Manual form. It was a world apart.

New gen transmissions like the DCT, DSG, etc have tried a lot to bridge the Manual and Auto gap but have complicated the ownership experience. The Altima is a heavy Land Yatch with a sluggish CVT, only saving grace is the 2.5ltr engine and high revving character thus it hides the flaws of a CVT.

So the only way to live with a Auto/CVT/AMT in hilly terrains is to slot it into Manual mode and play with the gear shifter between 2nd and 3rd gears. Note - the Kwid did not have the manual shifter thus it becomes insanely irritating to drive that little car.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by ruskinash

...

1. If automatic transmissions in a similar price range tend to exhibit similar sluggishness on hilly terrains?
2. It may be rare to find a car that meets all our driving needs and desires, but how much percentage of our requirements being fulfilled would be satisfactory for you?

It all depends on the car/transmission you are buying. For example, the Aisin transmission in the Scorpio N mated with the 2.2 mhawk is excellent. I'd any day choose it over the MT. However, I'm yet to see a great CVT.

[Shreyans_Jain]

CVTs in India are all laggy and lazy the moment you start demanding power. They work well only in bumper to bumper city traffic or in smooth highway cruising. Doesn’t help that they come mated with weak NA engines.

DCT, especially dry clutch, will never give peace of mind to someone who regularly drives on the hills and is coming from the rugged and mechanically reliable Scorpio.

The torque converter continues to be the transmission of choice. Most reliable and long lasting transmission that also provides the right kind of driving experience. The new XUV 3XO is a great choice with a competent AT mated with a powerful turbo petrol. Then you have the Hyundai-Kia cars with the diesel AT combo that is reliable, decently powerful and fairly fuel efficient as well. Users can also consider the Brezza with its 6 speed TC and 1.5NA engine. Not the most powerful, but very fuel efficient and reliable and durable.

Depending on budget and needs, I’ll pick any of these over a CVT or a DCT.

[ruskinash]

Originally Posted by BlackBeard

I found the 1.2L AT jazz to be underpowered and sluggish

The i20 feels even more sluggish than the Jazz.

Originally Posted by BlackBeard

I think the 1.5L engine would have been better in it.

Originally Posted by dhanushs

It all depends on the car/transmission you are buying. For example, the Aisin transmission in the Scorpio N mated with the 2.2 mhawk is excellent. I'd any day choose it over the MT. However, I'm yet to see a great CVT.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

CVTs in India are all laggy and lazy the moment you start demanding power. They work well only in bumper to bumper city traffic or in smooth highway cruising. Doesn’t help that they come mated with weak NA engines.

I feel the consumers here prioritize features such as big touch screens, sunroofs, and other paraphernalia over bigger, powerful engines. (Fuel efficiency is a big factor for most, of course). On the other hand, we have the Citroen C3 Aircross, it has a great engine gearbox combination and is the quickest of the lot in the segment, but it lacks basic features/creature comforts compared to its rivals. But again this is a B-segment car on stilts. Options are nil for a low-slung powerful auto hatchback.

[BlackBeard]

Originally Posted by ruskinash

I feel the consumers here prioritize features such as big touch screens, sunroofs, and other paraphernalia over bigger, powerful engines.

Options are nil for a low-slung powerful auto hatchback.

Correctly said, sun roof and other gimmicks being a priority over safety and people concerned about FE cant have powerful engines!

Sadly the Polo GT-TSI and figo 1.5 Ti-VCT have both been discontinued, i test drove both, preferred the ford for seating comfort over the polo.

[anjan_c2007]

Firstly, I would say that you have parted with your 13 year old Scorpio for good, reading about it's niggles due to ageing, plus your health concerns while handling the SUV. All said and done, the road presence and the commanding position that a Scorpio's, drivers' seat offers are unparalleled, for the price it was sold for.

But I also feel that changing over from a full size (Indian specs) to a B segment hatchback requires a lot of getting used to. Like when I drive my M 800 after being for many days behind the wheel of the Scorpio, I sometimes have the hangover to ignore potholes upto certain dimensions that the Scorpio insulates me from. But the M 800 it shakes, rattles and rolls even on small road undulations, leave aside potholes that could even break its axle and also my bones. With the Scorpio, I also see the less mighty vehicles giving it the right of way. But not with the M 800 with which i am shown my rightful place even by bikers and autorickshaw drivers.

Lastly, as you say test driving all the probable choices needs to be the rule. Thereafter, zeroing on the top 3 or 4 choices and also reading the teambhp review threads of test drives, followed by the owners/users/observers comments therein needs to be done before finalisation of a choice.

[amit_purohit20]

A weak anemic engine can never be compensated by any type of gearbox. CVT's are worse with such an engine because of the rubber band effect. A Torque converter gearbox is the preferred choice with such engines because the "torque converter" multiplies torque in addition to what the gears do.

Here I remember what GTO says - that a good engine always hides the deficiencies of a gearbox. I drive a XUV 700 and the excellent diesel engine compliments the Aisin built torque converter gearbox. Before that I used to drive a Indica Vista TDI having Tata's own Indica Diesel engine. The Diesel engine as a indirect injection engine having poor low-end torque and in spite of the gearbox being manual it always felt underpowered in many situations.

[samitjain]

Corolla Altis has a decent CVT, and it’s nice to drive in hills, but sadly this is also not available. Rest all CVT are too weak for Hill driving

[mally2]

Also consider an EV. Only drawback is less range uphill but gets compensated with nill loss downhill

[Maverick Avi]

Brezza with its TQ and NA engine is a good option for hills. It will tick most of the items on your checklist and is also frugal. It might be not be exciting as turbo petrols but is not a dud either. I would not be too confident with XUV 3XO for now as it's a new engine and auto box combo that needs to prove its metal.

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by ruskinash

However, after driving it for 2000 km over various terrains for 2 months, I can't shake the feeling that I may have chosen the wrong car. The i20 lacks the riding comfort and build quality of the Jazz. While the Jazz feels agile and responsive from the get-go, the i20 presents a delay in response.

It whines and revs before exhibiting any desire to move, especially on inclines. Although the sports mode helps somewhat, the lag remains noticeable, particularly in hilly terrain. I find myself missing the instant response and control of a manual transmission, especially in such situations

I feel you're missing the torque of a diesel mill here, more so after you've been with one for long. The quagmire you're in has not much do with the drivetrain, I reckon. The switch to petrol would make one feel sea changes when it comes to power delivery and the more revving nature of petrol motors takes a little time getting used to. Try and drive a diesel car in the hills and see if you're getting the mojo back, which you feel have been missing with your petrol car.

[Kosfactor]

Traditional ATs like the Aisin transmission have become very smart, they can very effectively utilise GDi petrol and Turbo diesels that have excellent power output right from the idle speed.

So if you do significant amount of driving, especially in the hills , city traffic , single lane roads - then it's best to take an engine + transmission combination that is effortless at handling it.

[SixPistons]

The XUV3XO lacks in only one place. The somewhat nonsensical boot space. It is an otherwise great car.

Mahindra has been using the very reliable AISIN made Torque Converters for a while now. I haven’t seen cases of TC failure on the new age Mahindras. So I find no reason to not trust this particular engine and gearbox combination. I would expect the combination to be well tuned overall.

The only risk, however, is small niggles once you start dilly-dallying in the car as the combination is new. I don’t expect any design flaws.

Otherwise consider it a safe choice if you are fine with the boot space. If you are okay with CSUV territory this boot space should be fine for, say 95 percent of your travel needs. While the icky boot space will definitely be a bother, there will only really be an odd 5 (maybe 10) percent scenarios where the lack of boot will actually be a pincher, considering average car usage will mostly be for B2B city traffic and some holiday highway runs. Your experience with Mahindra has already been great.

To the OP:
It may turn out ot be a good choice, though in a slightly higher price range.