[rajdoll]

Hey v12,
I'm saying, even if someone does not drive 2500-3000 km per month, why some one should not go for diesel, if that diesel car is not very costly compared to petrol and much better FE. And also is it true that diesel engines will be more problematic after three years, I thought that was applicable for old diesel engines and not for today's engines which are much improved.

[Stratos]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (rajdoll @ Nov. 18 2004,10:31)]And also is it true that diesel engines will be more problematic after three years, I thought that was applicable for old diesel engines and not for today's engines which are much improved.

Well..if u maintain a diesel engine properly..that is .. check it/ service it regualrly...i dont think it should be a problem!!!

[ported_head]

Raj, that's what i used to think. I believe the answer lies in the fact that diesel cars are considerably more expensive than their petrol counterparts, though i' unaware of Indica's pricing, i know for sure that the Palio 1.9D costs almost a lakh more than the Palio NV. I guess the only way one will recover the extra money the diesel car is worth, is by logging high mileage per month, i guess only then it makes better economic sense. But maybe somebody could clarify this, i was never very good with numbers.

[ported_head]

Diesel engines have eveolved over the years, so much so , that some of them outshine the petrol engines. I believe they do require to be pampered a little more, but your priority should be running in the car well, as well as if it is a turbocharged engine, follow the idling procedures religiously.

[normally_crazy]

Hey raj doll,

let me put my views in here too.....what drifter has said in his first post is spot on !! now u have to decide whether u want a diesel car or a petrol car. as far as a santro is concerned , i owned it for 3 years and the car was faultless ..absolute zero maintainance other than the regular servicing and stuff...and the car felt as good as new when i sold it arnd 80k kms.

here are my ratings out of 5

Santro indica
FE - 3.5 4
interiors- 4 3.5
fit n finish- 4 3
space n comfort 3 4
A.s.s. 4 3
Maintainence 4 3.5
ride quality 3 4
Performance/driveabilty 3.5 2

total 29 27


Now its upto u.....decide diesel or petrol...how much ur gonna drive ....and choose....

My money ? its on the Santro.

and yes could we please continue Indian manufactures v/s International manufactures in india , in a different thread ?

cheers

[rajdoll]

ported_head,
Difference between indica petrol and diesel is max 20000 and FE is much better by 4-5km for diesel.

[rajdoll]

normally_crazy,
Indica is 1400cc and Santro 1085, So how can the performance of Santro be better?

[mohit]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Indica is 1400cc and Santro 1085, So how can the performance of Santro be better?

I'll give you an analogy....... a M800 performs better than a truck even though it has just a 800cc engine and the truck god knows how many (The engine is almost as big as the whole 800!!)
Its the weight that counts.... There's a diff of a few hundred kg between the indica and the santro.... The indica has to pull all that extra weight too.

[Stratos]

Displacement that is CC doesn not matter..its the power (BHP) and torque (NM) that matter...a car having 2000 cc but 100 bhp....is less powerful than a car having 1400 cc but 150 bhp!! and bhp and toruque decide how powerful a car is..!!! So dont ever compare cars with their displacement as different amount of power can be pumped out from the same engine using performance techniques!!

[RJK]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (mohit @ Nov. 18 2004,11:24)]

I'll give you an analogy....... a M800 performs better than a truck even though it has just a 800cc engine and the truck god knows how many (The engine is almost as big as the whole 800!!)

good one mohit

[pmishra]

I am also going through the petrol vs. diesel dilemma. I am planning to buy a car within 3-4 days. But still confused between Palio D, and Palio NV.
My running will be about avg. 1200 Kms. per month. Out of which 700 in city (Delhi-Noida), and 500 on highway. The calculation I have done are
Comparing Palio Diesel +Alloy wheels with Palio NV Sport as they have equivalent features.

Palio D (ELX+Allloy Wheels) ==5,25000
(700/12+500/15)*28 = 2548 Rs. per month on Diesel

Palio NV (Sports) == 4,64,000
(700/10+500/13) *38= 4104 Rs. per moth on Petrol

So saving in fuel is 4104-2548=1556 Rs. per month.
Price difference is 60,000 Rs.

So it will take me 60,000/1556 = 38 months to recover the extra cost put on Diesel. And I think That's fine.

I have also been told at this forum and others that Palio D is better to drive in city and is more tractable while NV is sluggish.

So considering all this I tend to lean towards the Diesel. But I am unsure about the more maintenence cost in Diesel engine. If it's so, the balance will tilt towards the Petrol. People say that maintenence cost etc. are same for diesel and petrol in modern diesel engine. But I don't know whether Palio Diesel is in that league of engines.

So final decision now depends on the maintenece cost and ease of maintenence of diesel compared to the petrol.
(Also may be the prices of petrol and diesel will be same after 4-5 years or so, but not before that I think.)

NOTE: I plan to keep the car for long term >5,7 Years

[drifter]

I think i should add a little of my thoughts here...

Diesels
They are highly fuel efficient, they are long lasting...they have to withstand higher compression ratios than petrol engines so they are built of high strength materials...so they are as long lasting as any petrol engine if not more...provided they are regularly mantained.

Yes they do require a little more attention than petrol engines...but stick to the service schedules and that diesel engine is going to give you trouble free service for years to come.

In the small car segment...the diesel cars performance is no match for its petrol version...example indica petrol/diesel.

If you are looking for driving pleasure in this segment...then go in for a petrol.

Petrols
Petrol engines are not as fuel efficient as the diesels and taking into account the high price of petrol in comparision to diesel...its always going to be expensive if you drive a lot.

Petrol engines donot require too much attention...as the rule with a diesel engine...stick to the service schedule...and you will not see your car give you any trouble.

Which one to choose?

The criteria for choosing between a petrol and a diesel.

If you drive a lot...choose a diesel...the price difference in fuel is going to help you...and even if both the fuels are priced identical then also you will have the advantage of better fuel economy.
But choosing a diesel in the small car segment means performance will not be good, frequent gear shifts etc...and driving the car in bumper to bumper city traffic is going to be a pain.
Thats the only disadvantage i can see.

If you drive mainly in the city and your running is less than 1500kms a month...then the petrol option would make more sense to you...as you wont be driving enough to make any real savings by taking advantage of the price difference in fuels.

And the small car diesel to buy
- Indica v2
For
space, economy, dealer network.
Against
Performance, gearshift.

Palio D is a good car, performace is much better than the indica, and offering space and comfort levels as that of the indica if not better this would be the car to buy, but poor performace of the company in terms of service is enough to keep me away from this car.

Petrol Car to buy
-Santro Xing
For
Engine, aftersales service
Against
Uncomfortable rear bench, awkward position of accelerator pedal.

The Wagon R, only reason not to choose it is that it can carry only four people comfortably. But great to drive in the city due to its small size.

I hope this helps out.

Drifter

[Rudra Sen]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (drifter @ Nov. 20 2004,18:36)]Diesels
They are highly fuel efficient, they are long lasting...they have to withstand higher compression ratios than petrol engines so they are built of high strength materials...so they are going to outlast petrol engines in terms of life.

Drifter baby... Am I drifting apart? What are these high strength materials???
How they're going to outlast a petrol engine in terms of life?
I've seen Old Amby engine of mine running for 35 years without any problem.

[drifter]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Rudra Sen @ Nov. 20 2004,20:03)]Drifter baby... Am I drifting apart? What are these high strength materials???
How they're going to outlast a petrol engine in terms of life?
I've seen Old Amby engine of mine running for 35 years without any problem.

Dear rudra,

i just meant that the diesel engines are made more robust than petrol engines and that point about them lasting more than petrol engines is debatable...so i've removed it.

Drifter

[rajdoll]

Hi Drifter,
It looks like, even from the previous posts, that performance is the only negative in indica diesel. Can u please provide me the feel, how bad will it be, or how irritating it will be, if i'm going to drive it in the city and what is this gear shift problem? Are these finer points, which are good to conside when you r comparing vehicles on paper, but in practicality they don't matter because they are too minute.