[hemanth.das]

I just wrote a mail to 'voc@toyota-kirloskar.co.in'. Which covers the whole issue in as much detail as I could cover. Pasting the same below for awareness.

Good Morning,

I don’t know where to start from.
Completely disappointed with Toyota’s service & the service that the service centers have been dishing out (Viva & now Nandi).

Let me start with a little back ground, just before planning to give my Innova for service. I thought I would give the car to Nandi Toyota Banaswadi (for the first time ever at Nandi)as its close to my house and I was pretty fed up of giving the car to Viva Toyota airport road for all the earlier mess ups . Now I think that was the worst decision I have made. It was, as worse as jumping from the fire to the frying Pan.

The whole episode:

I call up Nandi on Friday, and book an appointment for Saturday the 3rd August. 12.30 p.m. was the scheduled time slot given to me. I reach there on time and go through the wait like I had nothing else to do in life apart from service, as the only thing in my agenda. And behold finally a service engineer gets assigned to me. This was the start of all the problems!.

Firstly the whole place is so unprofessional and has an environment of confusion and chaos, and to add to it the service advisers were not even wearing uniforms (none of my business, but I expect some level of professionalism as to what I have seen over the years from Toyota and its dealers. It was difficult to differentiate the staff from the normal Joe around there).

Then I get to meet the service engineer, sadly to my shock he has no knowledge of automobiles, and on further inquiring I come to understand he is a college fresher with just a month’s experience (if you claim to be Toyota with all your best practices and processes in place. Do you even have a recruitment plan in place? Which I guess you strongly do, and also impart the same to the dealers). I have been driving and owning cars for the past 15 years, and this is the worst I have ever felt. when I was interacting with someone who does not even know what a car is all about. I know and agree everyone has a start, but please train him and give him adequate hands on experience before he can face someone like me. Cause I think even you would not what your automobile to be in the hands of someone in experienced.

Below this section cover of how things unfold:

1. He turns on the A/C blowers presses the A/C switch a couple of times, without even crank starting the engine, and tells me that the A/C evaporator needs to be cleaned. I asked him how did you determine that, and he says that the blower is making a lot of sound. I was in for a rude shock.
Let me tell you, this is not the only car I own nor have I driven, I have some basic knowledge about cars.

2. He does not even ask me if I have any complaints or issues till I tell him. He just goes on ranting that I need to go in for the A/C evaporator cleaning. And continues to keep walking around the car and me like a fool following him.

3. Then I tell him there is a rattling sound on the LH side door and its coming from the window, I suspect. After which he does not even try to verify it.

4. I tell him there is a squeaking sound from the clutch pedal he depresses the brake, then I tell him it’s the clutch. I had given up by now.

5. Last attempt there was some oil stains on the hose that comes from the air filter towards the top of the engine, on me mentioning that, he says that once the oil pan drain is done it will not happen..

6. He goes on repeating about the A/C evaporator cleaning may be like 6 times and finally I said a firm no.

7. Then I ask him if there is anyone who can clean the alloy wheels, as there was a lot of muck collected in the hub holes. He called some 3M guy stationed there. He said it is called extra cleaning and it will be done at a cost of 700/- plus tax, and it covers external window beading cleaning , monogram cleaning, alloy cleaning etc etc..
a. And after this, this guy starts to pressure me to take some under chassis coating which after lot of deliberation with him I say I am not interested.

8. Then while the service adviser makes the Job order estimate, he tells me that he has to go to his native by 6 p.m. And asks me where I live and how much time it takes for me, to come from my residence. (By this time I was in a state of shock).

So far I never expected this attitude from a Toyota service center.

The Below section lists out the issues and the conversation that happened in the process, and at the time of taking delivery, my grievances.

1. I get a call at 5 p.m. from the service adviser saying:
a. That my front RH side wheel bearing has broken. I ask them to replace, immediate response no spares. I was asking him again and again will I be able to use the car till you get the spare, he says we can change in the next service or you come on Monday we will try and do something.
b. Then he says my stop lamps are not working need to replace bulb. I say go ahead, he says no spares. I was shocked don’t you have stock of bulbs I ask him. To which no reply.
c. The he says my rear wiper blade needs to be changed, again I say replace. The response no spares.
d. Then he says that there is some fuel leaking problem from the fuel filter, at this point, I was very worried. I asked him I never saw any signs of fuel leaking. He tells me no issues we have cleaned it and put it back. I asked him how is that going to sort the problem. He says it will be fine we shall change it in the next service. I was freaking out.

2. Now I get really worried, and I ask the adviser, can I talk to the technician who worked on my car.
a. He says no!. Then I say what are you saying and why can’t I talk to him. After some deliberation he agrees.

3. I ask him is the car ready he says yes I can come down an collect it.

4. I reach there at 6 p.m. sharp and it’s raining heavily. For the next 15 mins there is no sight of the service adviser.
a. Then he comes and tells me that is car is ready and that the 3M so called extra cleaning guys are just completing the last bit.
b. Then he says you pay the bill; if not the billing counter will close and they will not accept cards. I was like why should I pay without seeing the car. At this point I was totally frustrated and just went ahead and paid the bill.
c. Earlier I had informed the 3M guys that I will bring along the spare wheel, while coming to take delivery, so that they can get it cleaned as well. It was at home since it had got punctured a few days ago. Now when I am speaking to this guy he has the audacity to tell me he is filling something in the computer and once he is done he will attend to me. To which I did not say anything and just stood there like a dumb pillar and watched.

5. I go back to the service adviser and tell him, can I speak to the technician. He says OK and gets a person who is not even able to communicate in a neutral language apart from Malayalam.
a. We start the conversation and I ask him how serious is the bearing issues, In whatever little I could understand, he tells me you can run for 15k more kilometers or so. After which I will hear sounds and then may be the wheel may get jammed or something like that. Then I ask him, what is wrong with the bearing? he says something about oil seal and the bearing being broken or something like that.
By this time I was really tired of trying hard to communicate and understand what he was trying to say. But still, since I care for the well-being of my family and the car.
b. I ask him about the fuel filter. He tells me it was leaking and that he cleaned it and put it back!. I ask him what’s the problem? why should it leak?. He tells me that there was dust inside and something like we should clean the fuel tank. But no problem till the next service. I gave up at this point and left it.

6. Finally after being frustrated and walking around in the lobby and reminding them that I need to go and it’s raining heavily. They get the car at 8.15 p.m. (I reach there at 6 p.m. !!)

7. Then finally the car comes to sight driven by the 3M cleaning guy in a very rash and abusive manner. I had enough did not say anything. I walked to the behind of the car to check if all the floor mats were there, and to my horror the entire matts very bundled and thrown in the middle row.
a. The felt mat that comes standard with the car was so dirty like as if someone wiped his hands on them with a lot of grease or oil on it, in the entire area below the 3rd row of seats. As the seats were folded. The car had not been vacuumed or cleaned and all so sorts dirt, hair etc etc .. was still there and the door sills were just the same as when I gave the car for service.
b. Then the replaced air filter was there in the boot and the replaced A/C filter element was on the middle row RH side captain seat. When I lifted it to see what it was, there was oil or wax or whatever on my seat. Which had smeared all over that box and now also on my seat. I believe, I have paid a huge price for the Stanley leather upholstery I have on the car. And this is not what I expect to see!!.

8. Today morning when I was reversing the car in the rear view mirror I realized that my rear high stop lamp fitting was broken.
a. Immediately I took the phone to call the service adviser and to my horror his number is switched off.

9. Finally with a very disturbed and disappointed mind I write this to you Toyota.


Being a Toyota fan and a loyalist for its reliability I am very very sad.

Not for the first time but now for the 3rd time in a row, earlier with Viva and now with Nandi I have been let down and severely been disappointed. I have spent a good 3 hours to type all this out.
Toyota you have wasted my precious time & money, which I have invested in your product and products. And most of all my peace of mind. I don’t know what action you going to take. But you have lost a Toyota customer. This Innova is not the only Toyota I have. I also have a friend who is in charge of an entire fleet of 500 Toyota’s in Bangalore, and he is a decision maker in that company. I have also influenced a lot of family, friends and relatives in buying your Altis / Fortuner / Camry & Prado. I can provide each and every one of them for reference if the need be.

I am for sure putting this up on the online forums. I am just so very disappointed and I want others to be aware. The market in my nation has opened to a lot of choices and competition is not far behind, in terms of what they are offering. For sure I am going that way. I am not threatening you’ll, cause I am a small fry in a big nation (that has the least protection for end customers), against a very big company/brand called Toyota.

Below I am also putting this small write up of how I had an issue with the water pump on the same car and attaching the mail for reference:-
Wrote a couple of mails like this, got a couple of calls. At that very same moment, Viva Toyota crashed my car on to a pole. when I had left it there for service. At this time some customer service head from Toyota did call me up by the name Subaiah, and he promised me he will get the car fixed and given back to me as new. At the same time I did tell him about the water pump issue he said he will get back to me with a conclusive answer, when I told him this issue has been going on for a couple of weeks with his customer service team. Till today he has not got back. Attaching the mail for reference.

Lost faith.
Hemanth

[hemanth.das]

To give a little more perspective, it is a 2007 model Innova-V, done 60,000 km as on date.
Very very well maintained and cared for. Every 6 months sent to 3M for detailing. Has stanley upholstery and 10,000 km ago changed all the tyres even though the earlier set had another 20% of life left on them. Has 170 lance light force lamps up front.

I am the only person who drives the car.

And also forgot to add the car feels very jerky now on releasing the clutch.

[Sawyer]

That is surprising indeed. DSK in Pune on the other hand - I can't sing enough praise. Maybe you should dig out the email address of Sandeep Singh, the Toyota India commercial head and shoot him a mail, with a link to this thread.

[hemanth.das]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

That is surprising indeed. DSK in Pune on the other hand - I can't sing enough praise. Maybe you should dig out the email address of Sandeep Singh, the Toyota India commercial head and shoot him a mail, with a link to this thread.

Thank you Sawyer. I will try and hunt for his mail id.

If anyone does have or who can lead me to get management level mail ids or any info on any body to talk to at Toyota, please do let me know.

[vinair]

Woa! This is really pathetic service mate! I can completely understand what you have gone through as I have been in a similar situation once with Advaith Hyundai and trust me, you seriously have patience like anything! I would have literally thrown things at those guys and created a real big fuss!

You should have not taken the delivery of the vehicle and should have asked for the bosses to come down and take a note of the situation and asked for a complete refund of the charges!

Any update from Toyota?

[parsh]

I would not rate Toyota unnecessarily high on Quality of service. One still has to sit on their heads to get things done to the satisfaction. Their service is good because mostly it is well-defined to the point. But how it is delivered at different outlets/dealerships, their so called franchises, can vary greatly.

The Quality of Service story is not same across all dealerships. I can speculate that there could be quite a few people here in Mumbai too who had both good and bad experiences, including myself and friends. I personally had a mix of experiences and am testing different outlets due to various reasons.

There must be quite a few stories like this which have not come to light because people did not choose to expose. But, it is good to see some things like this coming out.

I have come to believe the Quality of Toyota Service is quite subjective to the dealership. It is quite similar like their products in some parts the Toyota product Quality stands out while in some parts it doesn't, like the engine, various parts durability is pretty good whereas the paint, sheet metal thickness sucks a big time.

Sawyer, DSK Pune are extremely professional on this side, atleast as far as I have experienced them and they will not let any hardship on customers.

Hemanth, try to raise the concerns in a hierarchical manner, to the GM-Service of dealership, Regional-In-Charge and then onward to see how they take this up and worst case raise it to the emails of the topmost brass.

[hemanth.das]

Vinair - I have become very patient as I am growing older I think a couple of years ago I would have thrown up a real tantrum.

I just sent them the mail about 2 hrs back. Not yet herd from them. Though service center called and asked for feedback just a couple of mins ago. Will keep you'll posted on the proceedings.

Parsh - For sure I am hunting for all the mail ids frantically, I will definitely take your advice here and tackle level by level.

I can understand if this is the case with TATA or others who have consistent quality and reliability issues, not acceptable with Toyota for sure. Not offending TATA and otheres or its users, as I am a TATA customer my self, but on the general consensus.

[Soumyajit9]

Originally Posted by hemanth.das

I call up Nandi on Friday, and book an appointment for Saturday the 3rd August. 12.30 p.m. was the scheduled time slot given to me.

Never ever accept an appointment beyond 10AM. Generally SC open at 9AM. Accept an appointment at 10AM max and confirm delivery by 3-4PM max. Everytime I have received my car beyond 5PM, there is super hurriedness to make me pay and leave quickly. I don't even get a chance to TD the car.

He turns on the A/C blowers presses the A/C switch a couple of times, without even crank starting the engine, and tells me that the A/C evaporator needs to be cleaned. I asked him how did you determine that, and he says that the blower is making a lot of sound. I was in for a rude shock.

I guess this is a common trick at many dealers. Kropex Chevrolet's SA does the same each time for my just 2 years old Beat. Although I don't know much about the technical aspects, but this seems like a easy way of ripping off customers for extra job that is not required.

I tell him there is a squeaking sound from the clutch pedal he depresses the brake, then I tell him it’s the clutch. I had given up by now.

Guess the knowledge levels at Kropex Chevrolet - The SA at my Kropex Chevrolet said that I need to enhance my driving skills and adjust the clutch to solve jerking problems. He basically showed me a demo by driving half-clutch pressed and asked me to do the same to stop jerks while shifting gears !!!

Then I ask him if there is anyone who can clean the alloy wheels, as there was a lot of muck collected in the hub holes. He called some 3M guy stationed there. He said it is called extra cleaning and it will be done at a cost of 700/- plus tax, and it covers external window beading cleaning , monogram cleaning, alloy cleaning etc etc..
a. And after this, this guy starts to pressure me to take some under chassis coating which after lot of deliberation with him I say I am not interested.

The 3M and other brand salesmen are a menace at dealerships and service centers. Everytime I have been for a service, one of these salesmen would be tailing me continuously for some extra job. And I tell you, the prices are quite different (high) at the dealerships than outside.

The rest of your experience is more or less similar with Chevrolet in Bangalore.

My advice would be to take a day off, visit Nandi and talk to the Service Manager. Get a commitment from him on the delivery of your vehicle after fixing all the defects, at a particular time when the sunlight is still on. Ask him to be present when your car is being delivered after service.

Hope you get a valid response from Toyota, and a call from Nandi, offering to solve the problems. But then I would say Good Luck for your next service, if you are doing it at a Toyota dealership. Bosch or Carnation would be preferred if this is the condition of Toyota dealers in Bangalore.

So much for Q-Class ads advertised by Toyota.

[unni.ak]

This is shocking. I can imagine the frustration you must have gone through at Nandi. Do understand that this is not an isolated incident. A good friend of mine, BIBIN004 on the forum, owns a Fortuner. He had to fly to UK for a work related assignment and the Fortuner was left with me. There was some monsoon offer going on (about a month or so back), where in Toyota had advertised that there would be discounts on service, spares and accessories. This was informed to me by him, and I set about trying to inquire the prices for some accessories. I called up Nandi, and Ravindu outlets, across multiple locations asking about the offer and the accessory prices. They didn't even know about the offer, and quoted way ward prices! The same item was 1k-1.5k costlier across locations I inquired!!

The example above is not even remotely comparable to what you under went, but, this shows that all is not well with Toyota and its franchisees. Much more is expected off them, given the position they hold in the market. I sincerely hope, and pray that the issues you have with the vehicle are sorted. Innova is a lovely vehicle to own and drive. Its the service centers who make it a pain to maintain .

I'm put up in the same area and did see the new service center Nandi had on the ring road near Banaswadi. Not that being new is an excuse for shoddy work.

[hemanth.das]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

This serves to show that the DSK high quality service is as much to the credit of DSK as it is to Toyota support. Considering that DSK origins are in real estate - and one knows how that sector works - it is truly remarkable.

The sad part is that Toyota is taking their customers for granted through these unscrupulous franchises. Secondly we still pay a huge premium over competition and buy the innova's /fortuners/ corolla's etc.. and the sad part is we get the same treatment what the other manufacturers provide for their VFM products.

Unni.ak - Yes it is a new showroom, and yes these showrooms are coming up cause of the demand. If there is was no money to make, these guys are not going to spend crores to invest in these ventures. But if they want to make money out of us end customers by dishing out sub-standard levels of service, is a shame on so called ethics and business practices and to be associated with Toyota. Which Toyota is just letting to pass.

[nitinbose]

Hi hemanth.das,

I am suprised and shocked with such a response from Nandi Toyota. I had an Innova & a Fortuner and never had any service related issues with the dealer. Indeed there were some small things here and there which were sorted there and then.

I would suggest you talk to the CR head, Vijay Kumar (lost his number). He is based out of the hosur road showroom.

I'm sure Toyota and the dealer (Nandi Toyota) would help you out to the best of your satisfaction.

Its most likely that this is a new service center and they're having teething issues.

[Imran Ahmad Ali]

The story has changed with Toyota . A company that was always known for peace of mind and excellent after sales service has growing number of dissatisfied customers.
In the family we bought 3 Qualis's when they were at their peak which we changed with 2 Innovas and later a fortuner was added . Till 2007 or maybe 2008 the service of toyota could not be matched . But I guess once they started doing great numbers with the innova their attention to detail finished. I can speak about the Chandigarh dealership and the Mohali dealership. Chandigarh dealership basically lost out because of the number of cars to be serviced. The service advisers cannot handle the number of vehicles that come in let alone the bays for service . My Innovas both doors were scrapped once and when I went to take it . It had paint droplets and the boot was hit. When I made a scene out of It they agreed to settle it. In all this took up a week. They called me and told me that it's done. When I go to pick it up the full bumper is scraped from the left side . I ask for the head of body and paint explain the issue to him and he says . " Sir you can't send a car for one issue and get the others claimed on the dealerships expense " . He has to say this and I blew my lid off ! To prove themselves they asked the surveyor to provide photographs of the car before it was settled and guess what none of the scrapes and dents existed. An apology and a wash later I forgave them thinking its just one of those freak incidents that happen once in a lifetime. Sadly it wasn't so.
One particular 5,000 km service they charge me for a full body wash but don't wash the tyres and underbody because it was raining and yet charge me for it ! Minor incidents of confirming services and not putting it in the list are Many so haven't started mentioning those also .
Now the fortuner . After a crash near Ambala in the first fortuner 4X4 Revised edition in 2012. I take it to the Mohali dealer because of the bad experience with Chandigarh . The car stands for spare parts for weeks . The paint quality is horrible like its done by one of the roadside mechanics , the footrest to be changed isn't changed but the perfectly ok one on the other side is broken by their " Mechanics ". They detach the bumper but break my number plate , the black tape is fixed completely wrong , the doors aren't aligned properly causing the back door to be dented and the body and paint adviser tells me I must have hit myself . I told him if I can buy a car worth 25 I don't need to lie about a 4000 rupee repaint ! He acts smart and he hears no end of it ! My brand new car spends weeks in the garage and work done isn't upto my satisfaction . Is this the kind of Quality service toyota boasts about ? And let's not even start talking about the geese marks on the seats , music system ( probably mechanics like their music while working ) , roofline , centre arm rest etc.
I hope Toyota does something about this otherwise they certainly loose out on customers .
Best wishes
Imran

[hemanth.das]

Below is the first mail response I have received from Nandi Toyota.

I have also written to VP Sales and Dealer Network Division Toyota-Kirloskar & to General Manager sales division Toyota-Kirloskar, Awating responses.



Dear sir,

This is in response to your mail dated 5/8/2013 addressed to M/S.TOYOTA KIRLOSKAR MOTORS LTD. We are concerned to note that you have been experiencing some concern regarding your Toyota Innova.

At the outset we regret to the inconvenience caused to you. We would discuss the subject with the people concerned & get back to you at the earliest.

We assure you our best service always.


Regards,

J.SHASHI KUMAR.
Asst Manager Customer Relation
NANDI TOYOTA,BANASWADI
99xxxxxx7.

[mpksuhas]

^^ The A/C cleaning trick is a con which most of the service centers does with good sucess. One of my colleague had to shell out around 2K for the same at Pratham Maruti Belandur for a two year old car without any A/C related issue. I guess the mistake your SA did was not gauge your knowledge on cars before he came up with the trick.
As per my observation the SA comes up with it 'should be' changed / cleaned tone if you are not having much idea about cars. The same changes to 'should I' change / clean if they make out you can not be taken for a ride.

Also, please do check the fuel filter issue.

[dhuli]

Originally Posted by hemanth.das

I have also written to VP Sales and Dealer Network Division Toyota-Kirloskar & to General Manager sales division Toyota-Kirloskar, Awating responses.

Hemanth, Thank you for sharing your experience. Its the best way to highlight lapses and help the unwitting others be well prepared. I sincerely hope your vehicle is fixed to your satisfaction and to the standard Toyota claims. Of course, you have lost precious time pursuing this matter, which should not have happened in the first place.

Let me add that I had a diametrically opposite experience on my first visit to the Banaswadi ORR service center.

My previous services were at Nandi Hosur, where I had purchased my Innova in 2011. I found the process much better here at Banaswadi for two reasons - it was far more spacious and less chaos, relative to Hosur road center. Secondly, some of their senior staff are managing here.

My service was the 30000km one and standard checks, oil change etc. It exceeded my expectations.

Now, if I compare your experience with mine, there are a few differences. I did see and interact with the freshers (automobile engg dip/degree grads) but my discussion was with the service head Mr.Sridhar. By far the best, and most knowledgeable guy I can vouch for is Mr.Robin. In your next interaction with this service center, make it a point to ask for Robin and have him check.

Overall, I do think Nandi does put in some effort towards customer service and I sincerely hope they resolve your issue and give you all the attention you deserve.

Originally Posted by Soumyajit9

Never ever accept an appointment beyond 10AM. Generally SC open at 9AM. Accept an appointment at 10AM max and confirm delivery by 3-4PM max.

+1 that.