[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by vinit.merchant

Hence it is unfair to go to the dealer to sell your car and expect fair market value for it.

One change, it is perfectly fair to expect that a dealer would buy your car at a fair market value less his profit and costs.


Of course, in a less-than-ideal world, a buyer is looking for the best price, and it his not his responsibility if the seller is prepared to settle for less than the real worth. He is a buyer, not a valuer!

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by BeantownThinker

So after this experience of mine I have come to the conclusion that the used car dealers are an unscrupulous lot and if there are any good guys out there, then they are exceptions rather than the rule.

Hold on a minute!

There are two deals in your experience.

• Your deal : It's a perfectly fair deal. They offered you a price. You found it good. Deal was signed and done. If you feel you have been cheated, then that's bad negotiation on your part, not unscrupulous-ness on their part. They are here to make money.
• Second deal to the next buyer: Again wrt the removal of accessories and other parts, it's again their call. They had the tools and means to replace them, and re-use/sell the accessories, and they went ahead with it. The price point at which they sold again is a deal between them and the buyer. No unscrupulous-ness over there either.

The only bad part of this entire scenario is their faking your information to the next buyer. I'm guessing this gives them a bargaining tactic to increase the price. Yes, that is wrong.

But nothing wrong has been done with you in this experience. You have no basis to come to such a conclusion! If you are feeling "cheated", that is just post-purchase (/decision) dissonance

P.s. You need to factor in the money they made of your accessories in the profit margin; so that's another 10k maybe to the "profit" they made!

[kiku007]

Any business has crooks but the percentage of crooks in the used car business is the highest among others.

Cold blooded lies. That's what they give whether they buy or sell.

I always prefer selling my cars to private buyers than these low ballers. Marketplaces or Online Classifieds like OLX, Quikr, Cardekho, TBHP are a boon in connecting buyers and sellers, MINUS the Used Car Dealer Dramas.

But again the so called evaluators who came from Carwale and evaluated my cars were hopeless. All they did was take couple of photos, start the engine and then go on to give ratings on brakes and transmission and what not?!

[mi2n]

When I went in for exchange of my 2010 Beat with Mahindra, I had prepared myself for low balling, nitpicking, dishonesty and all. But to my utter surprise the process was swift and totally event less. A visual inspection of the exteriors and interiors, a crank (which induced a gigantic whine from the fuel delivery system) and the quote matched our in house evaluation. That and the additional exchange bonus meant I was quick to hand over all documents and keys in a jiffy. The valuer was surprisingly honest ( or gullible) and even pointed out that I should remove the Idol and Jopasu duster. I just told him that what belongs to the car, stays with the car.

Buying a used car from a dealer might be an entirely different scenario though. My car had major fuel pump whine, steering column needed replacement for excessive rattle, few suspension components weren't going to hold much longer either. I wonder if they would sincerely undertake all the needed repairs before selling it. I also fail to understand the economics of the trade-in as upon a subsequent purchase inquiry, the same dealer offered a i10 Magna of similar vintage for almost same price(Beat exchange price+exchange bonus + 10k).

[BeantownThinker]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

it is perfectly fair to expect that a dealer would buy your car at a fair market value less his profit and costs.

I completely agree with you on this. If the customer expects full retail value when selling his car to a dealer then it is unreasonable. However it is reasonable to expect a fair value keeping in mind that the dealer also needs to make a living. The key is in understanding the difference between retail value and fair value.

Originally Posted by fazayal

If he wants to put your car accessories in some other car and sell it, it is his choice isn't it?

Telling about the car belonging to a "Doctor" was wrong and I am against such cheap tricks. However, it was a "White lie" and didn't harm the customer in anyway.

At the outset let me state that this was my first experience with a used car dealer (actually it was the used car division of Advaith Hyundai). The car was bought by the dealer with him stating that accessories like speakers fetch very little value. But while selling it he suddenly found value in them ?!?

And the second statement above just re-inforces the point I made.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

There are two deals in your experience.

• Your deal : It's a perfectly fair deal. They offered you a price. You found it good. Deal was signed and done. If you feel you have been cheated, then that's bad negotiation on your part, not unscrupulous-ness on their part. They are here to make money.
• Second deal to the next buyer: Again wrt the removal of accessories and other parts, it's again their call. They had the tools and means to replace them, and re-use/sell the accessories, and they went ahead with it. The price point at which they sold again is a deal between them and the buyer. No unscrupulous-ness over there either.

P.s. You need to factor in the money they made of your accessories in the profit margin; so that's another 10k maybe to the "profit" they made!

What rankled me most was knowing that such are the practices that are followed even by the so called reputed car dealers. This entire deal with me was front-ended by the Sales Team Leader of the new car division at Advaith Hyundai and not some small-time used car dealer.

I have made my peace with it and learnt to be suspicious of all such dealers.

[the_skyliner]

Originally Posted by BeantownThinker

At the outset let me state that this was my first experience with a used car dealer (actually it was the used car division of Advaith Hyundai). The car was bought by the dealer with him stating that accessories like speakers fetch very little value. But while selling it he suddenly found value in them ?!?

And the second statement above just re-inforces the point I made.

That's negotiation. It is every businessman's job to be good at it. Nothing wrong in that.

He may be able to fetch good value out of those speakers but that is because of his skills and not the seller's.

[Karthik_S]

Originally Posted by fazayal

Telling about the car belonging to a "Doctor" was wrong and I am against such cheap tricks. However, it was a "White lie" and didn't harm the customer in anyway. Most businesses do it if I am not wrong. "50% off, last 2 days! Hurry!" One can read such ads everywhere. Even if you go on third day, pretty sure you would get the same discount. If such a dealer is unscrupulous, trust me then you don't know what unscrupulous dealers are!

On a tangential note, Fazayal, why is there a premium on "Doctor " Driven vehicles? I never get that, it is so stereotypical. If anything a doctor might be using the vehicle for a lot of intra-city travel.


I've sold cars in the past and I am okay with the business decisions I make. If I feel the vehicle meets a value I set or is within a range I am comfortable selling it at, I am good. I don't fret about what a dealer does afterwards - as long as it is not illegal.


Karthik

[hserus]

White lie or not - if a good such as a car is sold based on false representations, such as this doctor driven car type story, and if a premium cost for the car is charged using that as a justification, there is a false pretence established and the car dealer can have a cheating case filed against him.

http://thepracticeoflawjalan.blogspo...ating.html?m=1

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Karthik_S

... why is there a premium on "Doctor " Driven vehicles? I never get that, it is so stereotypical. If anything a doctor might be using the vehicle for a lot of intra-city travel. ...

and might drive it hard when attending emergencies!

I suppose it is the respectability factor of the profession.

[adidac369]

The thought could also be: Doctors generally make good money and so they will maintain the car well, change parts with genuine ones etc and drive responsibly???

[hserus]

Originally Posted by adidac369

The thought could also be: Doctors generally make good money and so they will maintain the car well, change parts with genuine ones etc and drive responsibly???

After 34-35 years of age, once they complete their super specialization etc - yes they potentially coin money.

Till well into their late 20s while they are into residency, and then studying for their super specialization, they get a pittance and work hours that are so crazily long it would be termed slavery if a factory worker were to be given such hours.

[fazayal]

Originally Posted by Karthik_S

On a tangential note, Fazayal, why is there a premium on "Doctor " Driven vehicles? I never get that, it is so stereotypical. If anything a doctor might be using the vehicle for a lot of intra-city travel.

Karthik

Even I don't get the premium on "Doctor" driven vehicles. Most probable reason is that usually Doctors have their clinics near their homes and hence their cars are usually sparingly used. Off course this is not true for all doctors.

Few more irrelevant adjectives with their plausible explanation which are used to sell pre owned cars : Parsi owned (Parsis maintain their cars well), lady driven (genuinely low mileage), company owned car (well maintained at authorised service centre), owner going/gone abroad (isn't selling due to problems in car but have to sell as going abroad) etc.

etc.

[hserus]

Parsis - by and large elderly parsis have immaculately maintained cars - even more so if they were the late Behram Dhabhar Not sure about the current generation. Or how elderly parsis compare to elderly unclejis of any other religion in car maintenance.

Women might drive less - but the chances are that they may also learn bad / nervous driver habits a lot more (especially with an excitable husband sitting beside to teach them) .. foot jammed on the clutch etc.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by hserus

... Women might drive less - but the chances are that they may also learn bad / nervous driver habits a lot more (especially with an excitable husband sitting beside to teach them) .. foot jammed on the clutch etc.

"One Lady Owner..." I can't remember when I last saw that in UK, but it certainly was a regular car-sales line decades ago. I'm so out of touch: it might even be illegal to say that now!

I often comment that the female drivers in my life have mostly been, technically, as able and skilled as the men and usually more so than myself --- but I could add that they have often been just as enthusiastic about driving their cars. So normal wear and tear there, both good and bad!

[asit.kulkarni93]

I have been dealing with used car dealers and evaluators extensively since 2013 due to a few used purchases within the family and my startup. Let me first talk about the dealers in general-

Yes, There are crooks in this business but not like there were 10 years back. Things have improved now as buyers have become conscious. Most importantly verifying the service history for any vehicle from the service center is very easy now. Some of them still do the meter tampering business but can be easily caught or have an existing bad reputation. You don't find a bad dealer who has all his cars with their meters tampered. I have seen it happen most of the time with older cars. Accidental cars are easy to identify and in most of the cases are never sold easily even through the dealers. I know of dealers who don't even buy accidental cars, leave alone selling them. There are good people in this business too. There are dealers who have filed up the invoice of the last service of the car with other documents. But then these few good dealers have a very high price quoted for all their cars. It's only when you sit across the table for negotiations that they come to their real price which will be more or less same to the price of a similar car being sold by an individual. Please also note that there are people who need urgent money due to an emergency or due to relocation. In such cases, used car dealers can pay you the amount immediately and by whichever method you want.

Fazayal sir has covered most of the points on the working conditions of used car evaluators. It's no joke to evaluate a car in 15 mins and give an offer. You have to check for accidental repairs, repainted parts and mechanical condition of various other components. After analyzing all this you have to come to a fair price after thinking about the dealer's profit margin. Many people have complained about ridiculous quotes from the evaluators but let's face it they are doing business and not charity. Business involves profit and they are just giving you an offer after calculating their profit margin. You always have an option of selling it to an individual buyer. Let's not blame the evaluators for those quotes, they have clear instructions from their seniors. In case you are planning to exchange your existing car for a used car then you will realize that you do get a fair deal. Yes, I do agree to the point that there is a difference between testing and abusing a vehicle. A few evaluators have this habit of abusing vehicles and they need to be given an earful from their employers. But most of them are polite and are also looking forward to doing business with you.

The used car market is very disorganized in India and with time things are going to change. In fact, things are improving day by day, thanks to the IT revolution. But they have a long way to go. Let's not blame the complete industry because of a few bad dealers or evaluators.

P.S- I am learning daily about this market and what i have stated above is from my limited experience.