[streetfighter]

I have a problem and wanted to share the same with this esteemed group.
My story in a nutshell...

• I liked a used Q3 from the Audi Mumbai South dealership (dealership owned by the Jubilant group) and decided to buy the car. It is single owned, 50k kms driven, 2017 make and registered
• For hassle free ownership and peace of mind, I opted to buy from dealership itself as they do the due diligence on the car (300 checks) and were providing extended warranty for 2 years (at additional cost) which I opted for
• Since the car was almost ready, I paid the amount in full but insisted on sharing the docs and details prior
• They shared RC and Insurance copies
• I found out owner in RC and insurance to be different
• The insurance copy had owner details, so I called him casually asking about his experience and ownership
• Found out that he bought/used the car for 1-2 years and sold it off
• So it is clear that Audi dealer is doing a mischief and passing on a car which has multiple owners (but officially RC has not been transferred)
• On confronting the dealer, they admitted it is an oversight and blunder (but I believe they are very much in this scam)

I can think of two things going forward?
1. Walk out of the deal, take full refund
2. Ask for a heavy discount as now the car is not single owner (as claimed by the dealership). Add warranty and service package from the dealer

Or what can be an option? This is stressing me out as something good and exciting has turned out to be so problematic even after spending big ones. I went to the Audi showroom with a trust and was even paying a bit more for a good product and premium experience... but looks like I was being taken for a ride.
Thank you in advance.

[AkMar]

IMHO if the car itself is in good condition, you can go for it even though it is 2nd owner.

Have you really liked the car? If yes you can get it evaluated from somewhere other than this dealership (as your trust on this dealership has been broken). If the other dealership/your trusted mechanic gives clean chit you can go ahead with the car.

If your heart says no OR third party doesn't give it a clean chit to the car, then opt for a refund

[fazayal]

What is the actual status of ownership in RC book? Is it 1st owner or 2nd owner? Most likely it would be 2nd owner in RC book as insurance cannot be in name of someone unless they were registered owner of the car. They mislead you by sharing older RC copy or not sharing the correct RC book.

The value of the car depreciates a lot from being 1st owner to being a 2nd owner, more so for a brand like Audi. If I was in your place, I would have cancelled the deal and never do business with them in future.

A lesson for everyone, don't give money unless you verify the original documents of the car.

[VW2010]

Things in favor:- Q3, 2-year warranty, 2nd owner as per the paper.
Things against:- You are 3rd owner

Two things you can do like you said - Walkout or negotiate a deal.

This is what I would try - Negotiate a deal to make it 4-year warranty coverage and pay for insurance(Zero DEP) and take the car if it is all good. Since you contacted the owner, talk to the owner about known issues or any problems with the car. Negotiate hard and get what you want to drive the car out. You are not losing anything. No point negotiating for money discounts.

Always remember, unless you are ready to walk out of a deal and actually walk out, you will not get the best deal out there.

[Porcupine]

Car wise, if you are happy with the car then it doesn't really matter how many owners it had. You were satisfied with it's condition, unconditional of how many owners there were.

Paperwork and resale wise - you need to check where the mess occurred. It is new impossible to insure a car on your name without your name on the RC as per my understanding but I could be wrong. In this case it could just be that they have an outdated copy of the RC.

Assuming the owners check out and it's just an outdated RC, and that you're still satisfied with the actual vehicle - you should definitely bargain for a higher discount as it's indisputable that you will be the third owner of the vehicle, and will definitely take a big hit when you sell it forward - as opposed to if you were the second owner.

[streetfighter]

Thank you all for the valuable suggestions. Car wise, the condition is good, good on mechanical, engine, suspension, interiors, the body and paint. I had taken a longish test drive and the drive felt good, no rattles whatsoever. The dealer had also offered re-painting the bonnet as it has 3-4 chip marks (which he will do in case I take the car).

@fazayal shares a very important point that they may have shared me an old RC copy. I have verified this with vahan website and it shows the first owner's name. So it is clear that ownership has not been transferred in RC.

Originally Posted by fazayal

A lesson for everyone, don't give money unless you verify the original documents of the car.

Learnt my lesson the hard way. I trusted Audi and Jubilant (owners of this dealership) and this hurts really bad. It is sheer luck that I found discrepancies before taking ownership, else it would have been disastrous.

Originally Posted by VW2010

Always remember, unless you are ready to walk out of a deal and actually walk out, you will not get the best deal out there.

Well said Sir. Activating my plan B and C, including the walkout plan. Can live few more months with my beloved Fiesta 1.6S

Originally Posted by Porcupine

Paperwork and resale wise - you need to check where the mess occurred. It is new impossible to insure a car on your name without your name on the RC as per my understanding but I could be wrong. In this case it could just be that they have an outdated copy of the RC.

I believe such scam is rampant and the dealer is heavily invested in this. They are just trying to act ignorant and pass the buck that their employee has committed a grave mistake by not verifying the docs properly. Since the dealership and its employees are in close connect with transport authorities, they're able to take advantage of the loopholes in the system.

Originally Posted by Porcupine

Assuming the owners check out and it's just an outdated RC, and that you're still satisfied with the actual vehicle - you should definitely bargain for a higher discount as it's indisputable that you will be the third owner of the vehicle, and will definitely take a big hit when you sell it forward - as opposed to if you were the second owner.

On paper, on RC, I will be the 2nd owner officially (if I take the car). They will also transfer the insurance in my name.

The update as of today is they asked me what they (the dealership) can do to make things right? They even dropped at my office to show me all originals, dealer buying docs, service record, repairs carried out, etc. My reply (as suggested above) is I expect a heavy discount (I sent an email with exact figure) + extended warranty + service package, or a full refund. They said they'll talk to management and revert back. I'll keep this thread updated on the progress. I will also upload the docs at a later time.

Thank you all for the support and guidance.

[shankarbn]

Originally Posted by streetfighter

Thank you all for the valuable suggestions. Car wise, the condition is good, good on mechanical, engine, suspension, interiors, the body and paint. I had taken a longish test drive and the drive felt good, no rattles whatsoever. The dealer had also offered re-painting the bonnet as it has 3-4 chip marks (which he will do in case I take the car).

@fazayal shares a very important point that they may have shared me an old RC copy. I have verified this with vahan website and it shows the first owner's name. So it is clear that ownership has not been transferred in RC.


Learnt my lesson the hard way. I trusted Audi and Jubilant (owners of this dealership) and this hurts really bad. It is sheer luck that I found discrepancies before taking ownership, else it would have been disastrous.


Well said Sir. Activating my plan B and C, including the walkout plan. Can live few more months with my beloved Fiesta 1.6S


I believe such scam is rampant and the dealer is heavily invested in this. They are just trying to act ignorant and pass the buck that their employee has committed a grave mistake by not verifying the docs properly. Since the dealership and its employees are in close connect with transport authorities, they're able to take advantage of the loopholes in the system.


On paper, on RC, I will be the 2nd owner officially (if I take the car). They will also transfer the insurance in my name.

The update as of today is they asked me what they (the dealership) can do to make things right? They even dropped at my office to show me all originals, dealer buying docs, service record, repairs carried out, etc. My reply (as suggested above) is I expect a heavy discount (I sent an email with exact figure) + extended warranty + service package, or a full refund. They said they'll talk to management and revert back. I'll keep this thread updated on the progress. I will also upload the docs at a later time.

Thank you all for the support and guidance.

Best thing you can do is what you already did. However, if you plan to get this audi serviced at an indy, do check alternatives like an ML, X3 3.0 or XC60/90. All of those are much easier to work on and cheaper original and aftermarket parts. It will save you a ton of money and headache for the next 5-10 years.

[vredesbyrd]

If the car seems good by the way of inspections and checks then don't let it go. Coming to the 2nd/3rd owner debacle, push for some discounts or freebies since they have kept information from you.

If it doesn't work out, go look for an F48 X1. Might not be a real BMW but it's pretty decent.

[gururajrv]

Originally Posted by streetfighter

[*]For hassle free ownership and peace of mind, I opted to buy from dealership itself as they do the due diligence on the car (300 checks) and were providing extended warranty for 2 years (at additional cost) which I opted for

Not familiar with big Germans. But, from a general prospective customers view, please do not assume the dealers or their service personnel to conduct due checks on 300 checkpoints mentioned on a mere checklist which is just for documentation purpose. That checklist is to provide the customer (us / you) with the mental satisfaction. While it produces or provides assurance the car is checked, in real-world I don’t really think their team would do all the checks except basic engine or component inspection from an oversight view alone. They won’t or have time to do extensive testing to find out if there’s any issues existing / prevalent in the car / even bike. Remember, their motive (business) is to sell their new / pre-owned stock. Their mindset will always (atleast) be to get rid of the inventory and deal with issues later (safe to assume) Very few stand by their business ethics. Ethics / Trust is a scarce resource, you won’t find it in abundance these days unfortunately.

[*]So it is clear that Audi dealer is doing a mischief and passing on a car which has multiple owners (but officially RC has not been transferred)[*]On confronting the dealer, they admitted it is an oversight and blunder (but I believe they are very much in this scam)[/list]I can think of two things going forward?
1. Walk out of the deal, take full refund
2. Ask for a heavy discount as now the car is not single owner (as claimed by the dealership). Add warranty and service package from the dealer
Thank you in advance.

Clear indication to just back off and find another car. The minute you find somethings off, be it in a relationship or purchasing something you like, just turn 360 and head back home to find your drawing board to sketch out a new plan in buying a car in the pre-owned market. Extended warranty will not guarantee you the trouble-free ownership. If the dealer was transparent enough, you’d have built your trust in the deal by now and would’ve posted your experience of buying a pre-owned car. Don’t waste your money / time on this car that’s got shady past - not worth your time or patience. You’ll find a better one (sorry if I’m sounding like a friend convincing another friend who broke up recently)

Regards

RV

[AROO7]

Originally Posted by streetfighter

The update as of today is they asked me what they (the dealership) can do to make things right? They even dropped at my office to show me all originals, dealer buying docs, service record, repairs carried out, etc. My reply (as suggested above) is I expect a heavy discount (I sent an email with exact figure) + extended warranty + service package, or a full refund. They said they'll talk to management and revert back. I'll keep this thread updated on the progress. I will also upload the docs at a later time.

Thank you all for the support and guidance.

My simple advice would be just walk out of the deal as there are too many red signs. On top of that they dropped at your office to offer you a deal shows how desperate they are to get rid of this car. Adding to that if on later stage someone in the authority finds that RC owner issue you will be taken to task provided you buy this and become the 2nd owner. So better stay away and look for another car.

[OffRoadFun]

I would walk out of the deal immediately.
Once a liar, always a liar. I mean who would believe the service history or even condition of the car.
If tomorrow you have to sell the car, would you have courage to tell the prospective buyer the history without jeopardizing the chances of selling? In best case, a buyer would agree only after heavy discount, just like you. Else you would be dishonest. I am assuming you do care for resale value eventually.

I was once offered an Audi Q5 technology 3.0TDI at throwaway price by a dealer only condition he told me was mileage was tampered by 14000kms. I just walked out as there is no way to know what else could have been tampered. Save yourself this hassle is what I would recommend.

[ChandraSekarMN]

While majority of BHPians are suggesting to walk away, citing breach of trust, etc. my suggestion (like couple of others) is also to get the vehicle and service History properly checked at a different ASS and go ahead with a better bargain. What you may tend to lose at the end of your ownership should be balanced by such bargain now.
The dealer may be desperate not just to push off a lemon or bad car; but to churn the car and free his money.
Infact any dealer would prefer to free their inventory (which comes with a Finance cost, storage space etc) and hence that need not be seen with a very negative lens.
If everything about a used car is perfect, it is highly unlikely to get sweet deals.
But one odd thing for me is that the name transfer in Insurance when RC was not transferred. Assuming the previous owner had updated his name foreseeing any claims, in my understanding no claims will be settled with such a mismatch. So try talking to the previous owner and get a clarity on this point. Also try to understand if there are any major repairs, replacements that are due in the near future.

[omar]

Walk away from deal if you are even slightly not sure.

If the price you paid is similar to another similar vehicle in the market, you have no incentive to get this vehicle.

Even if you have got it at a discount from the market price, you still should not get it. The savings in the discount can jeopardise the entire investment in the vehicle.

It is better to walk away now, where you may feel disappointed on missing a good deal, as opposed to feeling disappointed later with a car you don’t want and also with your money invested. Also, the disappointment now, will easily go away, once you get a car you are absolutely sure about!

[lsjey]

Originally Posted by streetfighter

On paper, on RC, I will be the 2nd owner officially (if I take the car). They will also transfer the insurance in my name.

I want to understand how the Insurance can be in a different name from that of the one in RC? Will that insurance be even valid? From the points you have shared, it looks like the second owner had taken the insurance in his/her name and had driven the car. Is this legal?

Can the experts on this matter comment please?

Regards,
lsjey

[Old_Salt]

Originally Posted by streetfighter

I have a problem and wanted to share the same with this esteemed group.
My story in a nutshell...

• I liked a used Q3 from the Audi Mumbai South dealership (dealership owned by the Jubilant group) and decided to buy the car. It is single owned, 50k kms driven, 2017 make and registered
• For hassle free ownership and peace of mind, I opted to buy from dealership itself as they do the due diligence on the car (300 checks) and were providing extended warranty for 2 years (at additional cost) which I opted for
• Since the car was almost ready, I paid the amount in full but insisted on sharing the docs and details prior
• They shared RC and Insurance copies
• I found out owner in RC and insurance to be different
• The insurance copy had owner details, so I called him casually asking about his experience and ownership
• Found out that he bought/used the car for 1-2 years and sold it off
• So it is clear that Audi dealer is doing a mischief and passing on a car which has multiple owners (but officially RC has not been transferred)
• On confronting the dealer, they admitted it is an oversight and blunder (but I believe they are very much in this scam)

I can think of two things going forward?
1. Walk out of the deal, take full refund
2. Ask for a heavy discount as now the car is not single owner (as claimed by the dealership). Add warranty and service package from the dealer

Or what can be an option? This is stressing me out as something good and exciting has turned out to be so problematic even after spending big ones. I went to the Audi showroom with a trust and was even paying a bit more for a good product and premium experience... but looks like I was being taken for a ride.
Thank you in advance.

Just thinking laterally…since the name of person on the RC and the insurance policy is different and legally the policy is null and void, so technically the vehicle was/is uninsured from the time the previous owner purchased it, even now!!

So, first thing would be to get in touch with a insurer to get their viewpoint. Definitely the vehicle will attract rigorous vehicle inspection and a possibly a higher premium.