[CARDEEP]

Thanks Sarthak. Here's is link to ACI's detailed report on the same:

http://www.autocarindia.com/News/316...offensive.aspx

[apachelongbow]

When Honda does get diesel engines post 2014, the GOI would price diesel and petrol equal. May even be a diesel tax on diesel vehicles. So what's Honda's game plan?

Its high time govt forces Indian carmakers to start researching on alternate fuel vehicles. Bio Diesel, aircycle, solar/battery powered machines, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. We Indians are known to take existing technologies and produce a cheap working alternative. Now it is the time to put this into practice and finally break free of Arab oil once for all!!!

[CARDEEP]

@apachelongbow, oil economics & global/ Indian price could be matter of lengthy discussion. But, it is important for all manufacturers to have the diesel in the short run, because alternate technologies are in nascent stages & there are many issue like storage, weight, range, etc which need to be sorted. The emphasis is on manufacturers because it them who place barriers on any sort of modifications on the vehicle they sell & there is warranty loss for even tyres changed outside the dealership in few cases, & they are the ones who are living easy lives on surplus sales/ money instead of working hard in this direction.

Secondly, the governments have to take concrete steps to promote newer technologies in the long run & efficient technologies in short term.

Few individuals who are working on alternate technologies neither (may) have the money power nor the all round resources/ intellect for development of advanced alternate tech for transportation.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

Its high time govt forces Indian carmakers to start researching on alternate fuel vehicles. Bio Diesel, aircycle, solar/battery powered machines, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. We Indians are known to take existing technologies and produce a cheap working alternative. Now it is the time to put this into practice and finally break free of Arab oil once for all!!!

We do not have a worthwhile infrastructure for even CNG and LPG. Hydrogen fuel cell is still speculative. I dread the day when our labourers have a go at digging around a Hydrogen line !!

[StarScream]

Reading all the articles about Ito's speech last week it seems to me that Honda is working on two diesel engines. If I understood correctly, the diesel that Ito spoke off will not go into any of their existing cars, it will be used in the Brio, Brio sedan and an MUV and SUV based on that platform. The 1.6 Earth Dreams diesel, I assume, is different and may be used in the City, Civic etc. or maybe it won't come to India at all because of our fuel quality?!?!?!

[sarthakgupta]

Absoluitely correct StarScream Sir. However, the 1.6 EarthDreams i-DTEC won't make to India at all in any of the models. It is a diesel exclusively made for Europe. We are going to have an India specific i-DTEC (1.5L as per Autocar reports) for use on all cars forked from upcoming Brio and Jazz platforms. For the time being Civic will get discontinued in India and Accord/CR-V will continue in petrol only guise as CBU/CKDs

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Absoluitely correct StarScream Sir. However, the 1.6 EarthDreams i-DTEC won't make to India at all in any of the models. It is a diesel exclusively made for Europe. We are going to have an India specific i-DTEC (1.5L as per Autocar reports) for use on all cars forked from upcoming Brio and Jazz platforms. For the time being Civic will get discontinued in India and Accord/CR-V will continue in petrol only guise as CBU/CKDs

Makes me wonder, what'll happen to the City? Because Ito said the engine they are working on for India won't go into any of the existing platforms, so does the City not get a diesel?

[sarthakgupta]

Next gen City, Jazz and a compact SUV all will be spawned from a single platform (akin to VW MQB which will underpin all VW cars from Polo to Tiguan to Passat). When Ito said the engine they are working on for India won't go into any of the existing platforms, it means that the current gen City (and Jazz) won't get this engine for sure. Only the next gen Honda cars will get the diesels.

[sgiitk]

@sarthakgupta; I think the Jazz and City are on the same basic floorpan. In fact I remember someone conenting that the Jazz may be the better option since it is a global car and not an el cheapo job like the City.

[cranil7]

what the heck. What took them so long. They have jazz iDSI, CRV iDSI. Seen so many f them in Thailand and Indonesia. (Not sure if they have iDSI in Civic, Accord)

Anyways, better late then never.

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by StarScream

Reading all the articles about Ito's speech last week it seems to me that Honda is working on two diesel engines. If I understood correctly, the diesel that Ito spoke off will not go into any of their existing cars, it will be used in the Brio, Brio sedan and an MUV and SUV based on that platform. The 1.6 Earth Dreams diesel, I assume, is different and may be used in the City, Civic etc. or maybe it won't come to India at all because of our fuel quality?!?!?!

Earth Dreams is not coming to India.

You are correct - Honda is indeed developing 2 indigenous diesels which should be ready by Dec 2013/Jan 2014. They will cater to India and the south-east markets (possibly Thai/Malaysian), before they think of going global with it.

It will be a world-first, India-specific Honda diesel engine. In fact, Honda is going to build a separate factory in Rajasthan by March 2013 for the development, testing and fine-tuning these indigenous diesel engines separately.

The Brio sedan will share the same chassis of the Brio, much like the Swift/DZire. There won't be many differences, except the added boot and a few extra features.

Originally Posted by sarthakgupta

Absoluitely correct StarScream Sir. However, the 1.6 EarthDreams i-DTEC won't make to India at all in any of the models. It is a diesel exclusively made for Europe. We are going to have an India specific i-DTEC (1.5L as per Autocar reports) for use on all cars forked from upcoming Brio and Jazz platforms. For the time being Civic will get discontinued in India and Accord/CR-V will continue in petrol only guise as CBU/CKDs

The 2 India-specific diesels being developed are the 1.3L D and the 1.6L D.

1.3L D retuned to power the Brio (and possibly the Jazz, nothing clear on that front yet) and the Brio sedan, and the 1.6L D to be plonked in the City.

The next-gen Civic will come to India, but not before 2014-15. Accord is going out definitely, while they are still mulling on the future of the CRV.

And the nomenclature of calling it i-DTEC hasn't been finalised yet. In fact Honda has yet to decide what to call it's diesels in India. Knowing them, something innovative should be on the cards.

Originally Posted by StarScream

Makes me wonder, what'll happen to the City? Because Ito said the engine they are working on for India won't go into any of the existing platforms, so does the City not get a diesel?

The City is shortlisted to get the 1.6L D. Possible launch has been pushed from July 2013 to first quarter of 2014, as of now. No further details.

Originally Posted by sgiitk

@sarthakgupta; I think the Jazz and City are on the same basic floorpan. In fact I remember someone conenting that the Jazz may be the better option since it is a global car and not an el cheapo job like the City.

Exactly. Both Jazz and City share the same platform - Jazz is the global Honda model called Fit, while City is the more country-specific model. And yes, until last year Jazz shared a lot of components outsourced from outside India, because of which Honda couldn't lower it's price despite being so exorbitantly high. Now that they are sourcing most parts from local sources and Thai/Malaysian markets, and importing only the engine/transmission, they were able to bring the prices of the Jazz and the City down.

[CARDEEP]

BSM have posted an article on Apr-13 launch of Brio based compact sedan (to take on Dzire & Indigo CS). Here is the link to their report:

http://www.bsmotoring.com/news/honda...il-2013/5823/1

They have not confirmed the diesel engine specs in the report. Honda's 1.2L petrol engine will be doing duty in this sedan as well.

IMO, this will be a more proportionate design than both of the cars mentioned above & boot capacity will be somewhere around the Jazz, as this could be based on Jazz chassis.