[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by sudheeshnairs

Hmm...a thread to frighten a person who is waiting gor the delivery of a Skoda Rapid Elegance next week;-)

. But I happened to be in Germany during Dec 2011 and from then started developing an admiration for German/ European cars. (Loved them zipping through the Autobahns; Germans love their brands it seems, very few asian and other american models were seen on the roads) And hope the humble Skoda is a stepping stone and I would be owning an Audi or BMW or a Merc in the next ten years:-)

".

Sudheesh!
Please follow your heart and go out there and achieve your dreams. The Skoda Rapid is a very good car and doesn't have as many potentially troublesome electronic fiddlies as some of its bigger siblings. Enjoy the Euro look and feel and forget what the world thinks. Once you get into your car you will automatically feel cosseted and in the lap of comfort and luxury. Of course the Euro Brands like the Rapid carry a far greater cachet than the typical Japanese and Koreans which are competing against it.
And yes, I am totally with you in your aspiration towards Audi or Beemer or Merc! Why, I might even join you in that aspiration some day.
I am only speaking here because I am a happy Yeti owner who really appreciates the car for what it offers every day.
Cheers!

[VeyronSuperSprt]

Originally Posted by dkaile

In my book, more electronics in cars = more luxury = more prone to failure, whether they are Japanese or European,

You don't have to look far for substantiation. Forget google, you will find hardly any cases of failed electronics in cars like the Camry, Accord, etc on the forum. If at all they are few and far between. Therefore they escape falling into the hands of untrained mechanics which would have made the situation worse. This is not the case with cars like Skoda where one hears a lot more about failed electronics. On another note, just the fact that you have a power seat that does not fail will not make the Kizashi or any other car for that matter set the sales chart afire. Forget the power seat, the fact that it is reliable alone is not enough to make any car a surefire sales success. The Kizashi (a car that I was seriously contemplating of buying when it was launched) was a failure because of bad pricing (you could get a 1.5 year old BMW 320d for the price of a new Kizashi), bad positioning, bad marketing, bad brand value creation etc - all of which is the subject matter of another thread.

[dezrskb]

Hi all,

First of all I would like to request the moderators to move this post to appropriate thread if it doesn’t belong here.



As I have mentioned I was seriously considering VW Jetta Vs Skoda Laura and asked VW to give me few of their customer’s names and contact numbers. Out of Jetta customers, one person happened to be another doctor from this town. I contacted him and came to know that his was first New Jetta in this town, a Comfortline Diesel MT. What worried me is he says after driving about 10,000 Kms, his brand new Jetta was found to be having a clutch problem. He was shocked to hear that clutch plate was burnt ( I am a doctor by profession, so please excuse me if my naming of parts is wrong in technical terms). I heard they replaced fly wheel under warranty but was made to pay 23K towards the clutch plate (?) as it was not included in warranty. Says they said his driving technique was not correct. My colleague says he has driven his Honda City for more than 80K kms without a single problem and it was funny to hear somebody saying that.
I called the SE from VW Mangalore with whom I was negotiating the Jetta deal and asked him about this incident. He says it is a rare problem and offers to send me pics of the parts (?to prove that it is excessive wear and tear due to wrong usage). I have received the pics from him and will be posting them in the forum. If any of you can make out anything out of these, please share your views.





Now I am really apprehensive regarding buying Jetta. DSG AT now appears more scary. I asked the SE specifically that since there are two clutches in DSG, what would be replacement costs? He says around 1L. Would that be covered under warranty? He hesitates and says no. Now I guess if anything happens to their DSG AT, they would say that is also due to wrong usage. So I guess I would be more confident with my faithful MT with which I am so familiar.
I ask my friend whether clutch is very hard to use (you know if it is not completely depressed, there should be higher chances of clutch plate getting burnt. Is my assumption correct?). But my friend says its comfortable to use. First service is not over yet. But all said and done, he says it’s a very comfortable car and pleasing to drive. He has accepted the SE’s remarks that his is only second car in India to develop this problem so rare as such. Now, my problem is should I take this seriously and back off from Jetta or take it as a rare incident and fate and still persist Jetta? But If I don’t go Jetta’s way, I intend to go Skoda Laura’s way which will be technically same as far as I can see as both these are from same parent company. Also if you carefully see a photo, a part bears Audi logo.
Also, if it is manually difficult to change gears, should I take courage and go AT way as I hope machine will be making lesser mistakes like incomplete depression of clutch pedal.

[ajmat]

This is my opinion from the pictures.

The clutch is not worn out, it is burnt out. First let me point out the torque of a Honda City is a lot less at low revs hence clutch wear is much less. From the pics, it looks like he has been brutal on the clutch, dumping the clutch and higher revs. You do not drive a diesel like a Honda. I am also guilty of this and this is pointed out by fellow moderator Vid6639. The correct technique is to let the clutch engage gently and smoothly .

VW have been generous in bearing the flywheel cost.

[dezrskb]

Originally Posted by ajmat

This is my opinion from the pictures.

The clutch is not worn out, it is burnt out. . The correct technique is to let the clutch engage gently and smoothly .

VW have been generous in bearing the flywheel cost.

Thanks ajmat for the information.
I guess you are right. Thats why I thought that a technical person might be able to understand the pics better. Now I have driven a Zen LXi for 75K kms without absolutely any trouble. Now I am driving a diesel vehicle Dzire Vdi since past 50K Kms. I havent faced any troubles as yet. So I guess its not a difficult technique to master and anyway will be going to either Jetta or Laura or a similar CRDI diesel. One more question Ajmat, Dont you think if this guy had gone for an DSG AT, this might have been avoided? There, unless you are in manual mode, shifts are decided by a computer and even in triptonic, clutch engagement is not manual, so we can trust the machine to do it correctly. But there being 2 of them (dual clutches), i guess replacements will be much more costlier.

[VeyronSuperSprt]

Originally Posted by dezrskb

Now I am really apprehensive regarding buying Jetta.

Think of Jetta's / Skoda's etc as the equivalent of high maintenance girl friends - thrills, frills and relatively high maintenance as opposed to a dull one relatively low on maintenance. Take your pick based on what you need and are willing to put up with. It's an analogy easier to relate to and for the most part true. And that's why you see the guys who've enjoyed these cars coming back for more.

So, it's your choice based on your style.

Originally Posted by dezrskb

Also, if it is manually difficult to change gears, should I take courage and go AT way as I hope machine will be making lesser mistakes like incomplete depression of clutch pedal.

AT's also need to be handled with care - you need to continuously put them in neutral if the car is at a traffic light or caught in traffic or waiting for a long period and it is very easy to forget doing this because you get to an hands off mode. Additionally the DSG's in itself are more unreliable than their manual counterparts.

Originally Posted by dezrskb

Dont you think if this guy had gone for an DSG AT, this might have been avoided?

Yes.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by dezrskb

I called the SE from VW Mangalore with whom I was negotiating the Jetta deal and asked him about this incident. He says it is a rare problem and offers to send me pics of the parts (?to prove that it is excessive wear and tear due to wrong usage). I have received the pics from him and will be posting them in the forum. If any of you can make out anything out of these, please share your views.

Wow. I have never seen such a badly burnt clutch. Looks like really heavy abuse.

As Ajmat mentioned, one needs to be gentle with the clutch in diesels. If you drive a Honda, you can rev the engine close to 2,000rpm and then release the clutch since a petrol engine will engine develop peak torque only at higher rpm's. In case of diesel's peak torque comes in usually below 2,000rpm.

In city conditions, you have to get used to using the clutch with minimal accelerator input to ensure you do not slip the clutch.

If you drive it like a petrol, this type of damage is possible.

Ofcourse this does not apply to the DSG since the driver can't mess it up. It's the car that decides and is way more reliable.

[dezrskb]

Thanks for opinion Vid6639.
I guess this person drove his MT diesel Jetta like Honda. I dont know anything about his driving habits. But from you people's opinion it appears that switching to a diesel after driving a petrol for long time, there is something to learn. But guys, do advise and re-assure me on this - I have driven my Dzire Vdi now for 50K Kms without any problems after Zen Lxi (petrol) which ran for 75K Kms. So I guess I have adopted to safe diesel driving habits. I dont throttle before nearly taking my foot off clutch on my diesel. Moving from stand still, I use only clutch and dont "half clutch / declutch (is that what they call it?)" to stop in inclines (I use handbrakes instead). Is this correct? (also please advise me if there is any existing thread on this). I am still determined to go diesel sedan way that too either Jetta / Laura and not disheartened by this incident which I narrated. I guess all diesel clutches can get damaged if not used correctly and definitely a 20L European car clutch will be better than my Maruti Diesel Dzire clutch if not equal at least.

[mallumowgli]

You may like to refer to this thread for hill start technique, particularly Thad's post

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...tml#post574981

But regarding your statement that European clutch should be better than Maruti clutch is a risky statement. I've read in some magazine, long time back, that the factor-of-safety for clutches and the like in Japanese cars are more than that of European cars. So your margin of error in case of driving a European spec car is much less compared to Japanese cars. (This is just hearsay for me and may be a too far-fetched generalisation). Actual user experiences is a better judge

Frankly I thought this thread might give some technical pointers on how to prolong the life of an European car, but turns out to be too generalised Euro-car bashing thread

[suhaas307]

A friend of mine changed the clutch on his petrol Swift 4 times over a period of 40,000 kilometers. So you can imagine the torture he put the car through. Another friend's Swift had a recurring clutch issue and this is because she used to frequently ride the clutch (depress when not needed, apply pressure by resting the left foot - slightly - on the clutch over long periods of time, engaging it well before coming to a stop i.e. pressing it while in a high gear and dabbing the brakes till the car stopped..) Now these practices will surely ruin the clutch of any car, be it a petrol or a diesel, European or Japanese.

Good care, at the end of the day, should ensure that the clutch lasts, even more so on a diesel car.

[VeyronSuperSprt]

Originally Posted by mallumowgli

I thought this thread might give some technical pointers

Read the title and the opening post and you'll know why it doesn't.

[saketa]

European cars are clearly not as reliable as Japanese ones, But assuming you are buying a BMW covered by 5/3 year BSI, (New or preowned). Can i not take it for granted that all kinds of mechanical issues will be BMW's headache and not mine? Personally if i had a 20 L budget i would rather take the risk of buying a pre owned 3 series covered under BSI (for atleast the next two years) then going for the new accord.

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by saketa

European cars are clearly not as reliable as Japanese ones, But assuming you are buying a BMW covered by 5/3 year BSI, (New or preowned). Can i not take it for granted that all kinds of mechanical issues will be BMW's headache and not mine? Personally if i had a 20 L budget i would rather take the risk of buying a pre owned 3 series covered under BSI (for atleast the next two years) then going for the new accord.

Yes that's true. That is why one is advised to take all the warranties that is on offer when buying a Euro car. BSI will give you peace of mind, but it comes at a price. Euro car companies are aware of this mindset of customers hence are coming out with many such warranty schemes. Skoda for instance has a four year extended warranty package called Skoda shield. (Costed me about 18K for my Laura). Well worth it and in fact it was one the factors which gave me confidence to go for the car.

[arunrajk81]

Whats about Renault and other European Brands? ( other than VV group )
I am concerned, since I have booked Duster and I am in Waiting period

What made me to book duster is because its a Mini SUV which helps me in my Photographic Trips and Logans Proven Reliability in India as a Brand
I can see lot of Loga Taxis above 2Lakhs Kms still in better condition compared to Indigos

Any Comments ?

[dezrskb]

Hi arunrajk81
First of all congrats for the Duster you have booked!. I guess you would have done some research before deciding on a brand and model and booking it. Let me share some thoughts with you as I too have booked a Skoda Laura 2 days back. This decision came after long research and multiple considerations, re-considerations etc. I too am coming from Maruti Stable and looking forward to buy a European car. But after all the thinking and research there has to be some decision at the end right? Now after decision is made, we still listen to rumors and spend more anxious hours, days and months. But let me re-assure you you have chosen well. Have faith in your decision. At the end no brand is absolutely foolproof including legendary Toyotas too. So Just look forward to enjoy your drive.